Dragon Ball Super: Is Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan More Powerful Than Super Saiyan 4?

By Jeremy Carden

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Since Battle of Gods, DBZ fans have been debating about Super Saiyan 4 vs. Super Saiyan God.

With the new Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan transformation revealed, the debated has sparked even more controversy. Despite the ongoing debate between fans, there has been no clear definitive answer as to which form is superior.

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Most fans are quick to say that it does not matter how powerful Super Saiyan 4 is because GT is not canon. Not to mention with Dragon Ball Super on the horizon, it is set to “erase” GT from existence. I will get into my thoughts on that in another blog, but for now the focus will be on which Super Saiyan transformation is superior.

It has never been fully established how powerful these new forms are when compared to the standard Super Saiyan forms. Which forms am I referring to?

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These 3 below:

  • Super Saiyan God
  • Saiyan beyond God
  • Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan

Here is what we do know about the standard Super Saiyan forms:

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  • Super Saiyan 1 is 50 times more powerful than base form
  • Super Saiyan 2 is twice the power of a Super Saiyan (100 times base form)
  • Super Saiyan 3 is four times more powerful than Super Saiyan 2 (400 times base form)
  • Super Saiyan 4 is ten times more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 (4000 times base form)

The missing factor in all of this involves how much more powerful Super Saiyan God is when compared to Super Saiyan 3.

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We know that Beerus took out Super Saiyan 3 Goku with a simple flick to the forehead, and a well placed karate chop to a pressure point on Goku’s neck.

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However, Beerus tried this same karate chop on Super Saiyan God Goku, but it failed to work! This shows us that Goku’s power has increased to astounding new heights!

It was one of those blink-and-you-miss moments during the beginning of their battle.

In the end, 70% Beerus was able to defeat 80% Super Saiyan God Goku; remember that Goku never fought at 100% with his new power.

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Saiyan beyond God is a “form” that Goku and Vegeta reach after the events of Battle of Gods, and during their time as students under Whis.

A Saiyan prodigy who transforms into Super Saiyan God will revert back to base form after the Super Saiyan God form time limit runs out. However, they will absorb the power of the Super Saiyan God into their base form. This will result in the Saiyan becoming a Saiyan beyond God.

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It reminds me of Ultimate Gohan because in his “base form” he has far more power than he ever did as a Super Saiyan 1 or 2. The reason I say “base form” is because as Ultimate Gohan his outer appearance barely changes from his regular appearance.

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When it comes to Saiyan beyond God vs. the appearance of base Goku or Vegeta, the only change is the color of their aura. It becomes more of a milky white color when compared to their standard base form aura.

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When a Saiyan beyond God has access to the Super Saiyan transformation…they can become a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan!

It is unknown how much more powerful this makes a Saiyan beyond God, or how much more powerful this form is when compared to a Super Saiyan God.

Most fans are quick to assume that just like the standard Super Saiyan transformation; it increases a Saiyan’s power 50 times over the power of his base power. In this case, “base power” is considered Saiyan beyond God.

Wait, does that mean a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is 50 times the power of a Super Saiyan God?

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Saiyan beyond God is basically a Saiyan in base form that has mastered or absorbed the power of a Super Saiyan God into their body right?

Although it is not official, I can see why most fans would assume that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is superior to a Super Saiyan God by 50 times.

However, the Super Saiyan multiplier scale seems to conflict with Akira Toriyama’s own power scale for the gods.

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He stated his own personal belief on the power differences between the Battle of Gods characters below:

Super Saiyan God Goku is about a “6”, Beerus a “10” and Whis about a “15”.

To me this never made much sense, and please do not think that I am debating the word of the official creator of Dragon Ball Z. However, the key phrase here is that these levels are Akira’s “own personal belief.”

With that being said, I think it is fair for me (or any other fan for that matter) to have my own personal belief as well.

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As I mentioned before, Beerus was only fighting at 70% power when he battled Super Saiyan God Goku. The Saiyan never truly fought at 100% with his new godly power. His time limit in the form ran out before he could kick things up to full power.

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True, Beerus mentioned that Goku absorbed the power of the Super Saiyan God into his base form, and from there transformed into a Super Saiyan. That explained why he was able to fight on par with Beerus for some time, and he did not even notice that his Super Saiyan God fuel had burned out until Beerus mentioned it to him.

Some may argue that Goku fought Beerus as a Saiyan beyond God after his Super Saiyan God power fizzled out like a flat can of soda.

Others might mention that Goku fighting Beerus as a Full Power Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God was a potential foreshadowing of the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan!

Both are valid points, and I think they are worth mentioning.

Now here is where my opinion is slightly different than Akira’s own personal belief. If my math is mistaken, please feel free to let me know in the comment section below (and be respectful because we are all human, and mistakes can be made).

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If Beerus (at 70% power) was fighting Super Saiyan God Goku (at 80% power), wouldn’t this imply that Beerus is at best only 10% more powerful than Super Saiyan God Goku?

That conflicts with Goku being a 6, and Beerus being a 10. The gap of 4 seems to imply much more than a 10% difference in strength. My opinion is that Akira did not write Battle of Gods with the intention of having an exact measuring system of power levels.

Remember that they were only introduced into the series so the characters and fans would come to realize how useless they really were.

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Considering that Trunks at level 5 was the last power level scanned in the series, I am sure that we can assume that in the interview, Akira did not have an exact figure in his head regarding the power of the gods. We just know that Whis is more powerful than Beerus, and Beerus is more powerful than Goku.

To me, Full Power Super Saiyan Goku (with the power of Super Saiyan God) was not as powerful as he was when he was a Super Saiyan God. I say this because Goku was experiencing the power for the very first time, and he did not have full mastery over his new power yet.

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After training with Whis, I suspect the Saiyan beyond God version of Goku is superior to even his Super Saiyan God form from Battle of Gods (to a certain extent).

We then find out that the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is basically a Super Saiyan fighting with the power of a Super Saiyan God.

Wait, does that mean Goku could become a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 2 and a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3?

I am not going to go down that rabbit hole because we could be going back and forth about this for an eternity. If Goku could indeed reach those forms then as a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3, his power would be 400 times the power of a Saiyan beyond God!

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Now to get back on track, Saiyan beyond God is superior to Super Saiyan God in the sense that this is a base form Saiyan that has mastered the Super Saiyan God transformation.

What does this mean?

It means that base form Goku and Vegeta can fight with the power of a Super Saiyan God, but the time limit of the godly form is no longer a handicap.

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Again a comparison can be made to Ultimate Gohan vs. Super Saiyan 3. Gohan is allowed to fight with his maximum power without his Ki supply being quickly drained like a Super Saiyan 3.

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is the next stage of a superior Super Saiyan God because it also allows a Saiyan to fight with the power of the Super Saiyan God, but without any sort of time limit handicap.

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I know we have covered a lot of ground so far, but let’s do a quick recap just to be sure we are on the same page.

Saiyan beyond God is the base form of a Saiyan that has now mastered and retained the power of a Super Saiyan God. Any Saiyan that is capable of becoming a Super Saiyan can take their Saiyan beyond God stage to the level of a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

Both of these incarnations of a Saiyan can be considered superior in power to the Super Saiyan God transformation.

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Moving onto GT, although it was never officially stated; Goku in base form is said to be as powerful as he was at the Super Saiyan 3 level in DBZ (specifically in the Buu Saga, not the 10 year gap between the death of Kid Buu and the departure of Goku with Uub).

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This made me cringe as a child when I heard this because I was difficult to believe that Kid Goku (GT) was on par with the Super Saiyan 3 that we had seen fighting with Kid Buu!

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However, most fans associate Goku’s power to Super Saiyan 3 because of his statement to General Rilldo about the Machine Mutant being more powerful than even Majin Buu.

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Goku actually fights on par (and even has the upper hand for a good portion of the fight) with Rilldo, and that is why most fans say he was at the power of a Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku. It is also worth mentioning that this is in reference to Rilldo’s first form, and not his other 2 transformation that make Goku power up to Super Saiyan 1 which makes him 50 times more powerful than before.

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Things can get extremely complicated when thinking about a base form Goku being on par with his Super Saiyan 3 form from DBZ.

Think of it this way:

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Kid Goku (GT) in base form = Super Saiyan 3 Goku from Buu Saga.

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This would mean GT Goku is 400 times the power of base power Goku from the Buu Saga!

What does this mean in terms of the Super Saiyan multipliers when applied to GT Goku?

  • Super Saiyan 1 is 50 times base power
  • Super Saiyan 2 is twice the power of Super Saiyan 1
  • Super Saiyan 3 is four times the power of Super Saiyan 2
  • Super Saiyan 4 is ten times the power of Super Saiyan 3

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Meaning that Super Saiyan 4 Goku in GT is 4,000 times the power of Super Saiyan 3 Goku from the Buu Saga!

Yes, I find this mind blowing as well because it all goes back to what Vegeta from the Team Four Star Abridged series of DBZ said about power levels:

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Alright, at this point the question arises as to which form of Goku would come out on top if Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan met Super Saiyan 4.

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I am willing to bet that in terms of power alone…the winner would be Super Saiyan 4.

Hear me out on this:

We know that Super Saiyan God is more powerful than Super Saiyan 3, but we do not know by how much. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is speculated (and keep in mind that it is not official) to be 50 times the power of a Saiyan beyond God, and this “form” is literally a base form Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God.

Fans speculate Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan to be 50 times the power of a Super Saiyan God.

The reason I feel that Super Saiyan 4 Goku is more powerful is simply because a base form Goku that is equal in power to a Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku is just insane to think about because he gets a 4,000 times power increase at Super Saiyan 4.

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I will say that we do know Saiyan beyond God Goku is more powerful than GT base form Goku.

Why?

It has been said many times that Saiyan beyond Goku is basically Super Saiyan God Goku (just without the drastic change in appearance), and that would mean his power is much higher than Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

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However, if Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is indeed only 50 times the power of Saiyan beyond God (or Super Saiyan God), I feel that it goes without saying that a 50-fold power increase would not be able to matchup to a Super Saiyan 4 GT Goku.

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Super Saiyan GT Goku alone is already 50 times the power of Super Saiyan 3 DBZ Goku, which increases to 100 times as a Super Saiyan 2, and 400 times as a Super Saiyan 3…

I do not think that Super Saiyan God is that much of a power-up when compared to Super Saiyan 3.

If Goku were to fully master his training under Whis in order to become a perfect warrior, he would have an advantage over Super Saiyan 4 Goku.

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Remember that Whis pointed out Goku’s main flaw as being too relaxed in battle, and that leaves him open to attack. This can lead to his defeat by a weaker opponent, and we saw this happen when Sorbet blasted him through the heart with his ring laser!

Can you imagine a Goku that was flawless in combat? True, Super Saiyan 4 is more powerful, but that version of Goku would not have the training of Whis to back him up!

I am keeping “GT Goku” and “Battle of Gods Goku” as separate entities during this fight.

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Some fans are probably reading this and would consider the fight to be over in a matter of seconds! I mean Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku would just need to cut off Super Saiyan 4 Goku’s tail!

Yes, I know that would be a way of ending the fight very quickly. However, who would want to see that as the ending of such an epic battle?

I know that I would not want this battle between Super Saiyans to be over before it begun due to Super Saiyan 4 Goku’s main handicap.

Something else that needs to be taken into consideration is that Super Saiyan 4 and Super Saiyan God/Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan are completely different levels. I mean Super Saiyan 4 seems to fit into the same spectrum as the first 3 Super Saiyan levels.

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However, Super Saiyan God is in a league of its own. It is a being of such divine energy and power that it cannot be sensed by “lesser beings” through the use of a Ki signature. I do not think that this means Super Saiyan God is automatically more powerful than Super Saiyan 4 (because in GT, it is mentioned on more than one occasion by other characters that Goku’s Ki is incredible in the form; meaning “lesser beings” can sense his presence), but it means that it is in a different realm of power.

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Super Saiyan God is a powerful form, but until we are officially given the stats on how much more powerful it is than a Super Saiyan 3; this debate will most likely continue on.

Which form do you think is more powerful?

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Dragonball Z: One of the Worst Yamcha Memes

by Jeremy Carden

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I know there are a lot of Yamcha memes circulating on the Internet, but this one has got to be one of the worst out there. Most of the memes make fun of the human Z-Fighter, but this one…

This particular meme is a boastful meme of how Yamcha is better than Goku or Vegeta when placed in certain circumstances. There are a total of 6 different responses to everyone’s negative opinions about  Yamcha. I’ll list them out below and describe why I feel they are ridiculous.

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#1 It took me one death to realize being cocky or underestimating your enemy is a weakness where it took Vegeta to see Super Saiyan 3 Goku in action to understand this

Vegeta’s trademark isn’t just the Galick Gun or the Final Flash it is his EGO and PRIDE! Maybe if Yamcha had more of that Bulma would not have left him for Vegeta! That passion to be the best was what made Vegeta train to be the #1 in the universe. Yamcha on the other hand just lounged around Capsule Corp. and did well…nothing. Vegeta died TWICE and still fought on to be the best even if he was blinded by pride.

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I’d say that Vegeta had far more growth by the end of the series when compared to Yamcha despite meeting Goku way back in Dragonball! Seeing Goku at his best fighting the pink menace (after getting beaten by Kid Buu himself), Vegeta understood who Goku was not as a Saiyan warrior but as a PERSON! I think while fused with Goku as Vegito, Vegeta was able to see Goku for who he truly was.

Yamcha on the other hand did see the importance of not underestimating his opponents early on in DBZ. However, he became more of a coward on the battlefield than a warrior. That alone is why this statement just makes him love very bad…

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#2 I made it to King Kai’s house a lot faster then Goku and don’t use “Goku falling off of Snake Way as an excuse

Here is one that annoys me: Tien, Yamcha, Piccolo and Chiaotzu making it down Snake Way faster than Goku (even minus Princess Snake and falling off into Hell detours). The comparison isn’t fair at all!

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Goku’s base power was only 416 (without weights) and let’s just say that after death it was the same (unless you count a Zenkai for him keeping his body after dying but in this case let’s not) and if you count him eating that fruit from Yemma’s tree doubling his strength we could say it was 832 and now compare that to the Z-Fighters after training to prepare for the Saiyan arrival:

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These are from the Daizenshuu 7;

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Piccolo-3,500

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With all of that taken into consideration then it is understandable why these 4 would get down Snake Way faster!

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#3 I defeated Recoome, but Vegeta did not

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Defeating Recoome was FILLER. Secondly, AGAIN Yamcha’s power level would understandably be higher than the fighter he is comparing himself too. Vegeta was a little over 30,000 while Yamcha had been on King Kai’s planet training for months. So it’s easy to see why his power would increase enough to beat a Ginyu Force member. But again this was FILLER! Again, Yamcha tries to outshine Vegeta only to give himself even more grief by fans!

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#4 I was the first and only human to try out the gravity machine one time but at least I was strong enough to move and shutdown the machine in 300x gravity where Goku struggled training under 100x gravity

The 300x gravity remark was good until he AGAIN compared himself to someone who had a lower power than he had at the time. Goku had just recovered from the battle with Vegeta thanks to a Senzu Bean and of course probably received a Zenkai. But since he was healing nicely in the hospital the Senzu Bean repaired his bones rather than his health since he was in good shape in the hospital (health wise I mean).

If you ask me I’d say his power was around 9,000 or 10,000 (like his father Bardock was before he died) considering he was “over 8000” by Vegeta’s Scouter and was literally near death after Vegeta left, he was in bed for a couple of months before he could even get a Senzu Bean so it makes sense that his power would increase after eating it. He even states that he feels himself getting weaker for not training for so long just lying in bed (similar to the heart virus in the Android Saga lying him out for about 10 days). Not to mention his base power on Namek was 90,000. I’d like to think that training under x100 gravity increased his base power by 10 because it makes it easier to calculate.

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Now there is one important factor to take into consideration: Goku was weak before he trained in 100x gravity, but Yamcha was at full health!

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Goku was training at 50x gravity doing sit-ups while hanging from the ceiling! He was nearing 10,000 when his spaceship hit a magnetic storm fluctuating the gravity from 0 to 100x rapidly not allowing him to get used to the random changes. He was exhausted when the machine hit 100x gravity so it makes sense that he could barely move!

Yamcha wasn’t tired at all when he went into the machine and cranked it up to 300x gravity!

While Yamcha was well over 10,000 in the Trunks Saga. After training on King Kai’s for a long period of time, I think it equaled around a year or a little over that. His power was probably just scrapping the 100,000 range. He was lucky to get out of the Gravity Room alive.

Not to mention that even though Goku got smacked around by 100x gravity, instead of working his way up from 50x to 100x gravity by going up 10x each time until he got to 100x, after nearly being killed Goku was inspired to master 100x gravity right away! Yamcha did not do this, he opted to go on a training mission instead of sticking around Capsule Corp. for effective training!

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#5 After Cell’s defeat, my training went unknown cause I like being a mystery fighter

After Cell was killed by Gohan and we move on 7 years later,  he told everyone that he quit fighting so that was pretty much all we got on the subject. What’s so mysterious about it? I don’t think he quit as soon as Cell was defeated he might have trained a couple of years and just quit all of a sudden, but that’s just me trying to get him SOME credit. It doesn’t really matter if you are a mysterious fighter if all you do is run from fights.

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#6 I defeated Olibu with ease but Goku and Pikkon did not

Olibu…again FILLER not to mention Goku didn’t fight Olibu (unless you count the video game Buu’s Fury, but then again that’s a video game not the anime). Pikkon was wearing his weighted clothes not to mention he didn’t use Thunder Flash or any energy attack for that matter. That shows right there he was holding back A LOT of power. To me it was more of a test because Olibu had a reputation around Grand Kai’s planet like Pikkon. Both were known for their strength and Pikkon was most likely testing the warrior’s power. It was clearly a hand to hand combat match, but of course it was more epic than the one we see from Yamcha fighting these two dead warriors.

Overall, this is probably one of the memes on the Internet that makes Yamcha look worse than he has even looked before.

What do you think?