Dragon Ball Super: Have Goku and Vegeta Surpassed Beerus?

By Jeremy Carden

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I must say that the Dragon Ball Super manga has blown me away with such amazing storytelling and action! Even though there are multiple inconsistencies with the manga (and anime) when compared to the original Dragon Ball Z series, I still enjoy reading the manga chapters.

What I think is the most amazing thing about the Dragon Ball Super franchise is the fact that I get to follow it from start to finish. I did not get into the series until I was about 11-years-old, and by that time the manga was done. The anime (in the United States) was in the Kid Buu Saga, and I was fresh to the scene.

In this case, I got to see the Dragon Ball Super series begin with episode 1, and read the manga from Chapter 1. Overall, I just feel privileged to be living in a time like this!

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Now, I am truly excited to see that Goku and Vegeta have finally begun training together. Considering that they are rivals, I think that their training is much more effective as a result. I can see them learning from each other, and really growing as a result. They are probably trying to one-up each other in their sparring sessions.

According to the manga, they trained in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber for 3 years (3 days in our time). Looking past the obvious inconsistency here (only being able to use the room for 48 hours in a lifetime; established by Mr. Popo in DBZ), that is truly impressive!

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I have heard that the Time Chamber was rebuilt after the Buu Saga, and it now allows visitors to use it for more than 48 hours total. Remember that it was destroyed during the battle between Super Buu and Gotenks (Piccolo blew up the door), and apparently rebuilt when the world was restored after being destroyed by Kid Buu.

Whis pointed out the flaws in each Saiyan as an individual, and taught them about how to control their new godly ki. Goku’s carefree attitude which made him vulnerable was the opposite of Vegeta’s uptight demeanor that prevents him from fighting at his maximum potential in a battle.

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At some point in the anime, Whis says that there was no longer a need to train the two Saiyans. During their sparring sessions together, the Saiyans’ innate fighting abilities resulted in them progressing much quicker than Whis had originally anticipated.

Overall, Whis’ goal was to get the Saiyans to become more in tune with their new godly ki. This was why he did not allow them to become Super Saiyan or beyond during their training, and only wanted them in base form to master their new powers. Even though Whis pointed out to the Oracle Fish (in the anime) that the Saiyans knew this which was why he never had to outright tell them to train in base form.

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Beerus was annoyed by the constant noise that the Saiyans were making, and he told Whis to send him to “that place.” It turned out to be a Hyperbolic Time Chamber-like voice where Goku and Vegeta were surrounded by godly energy.

Whis told them that they must raise their powers without it leaking out of their bodies because it would alert their opponents to the power-up.

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Vegeta noticed that until they mastered Whis’ tip, they would not be able to move at all in “that place.” He figured this out because Goku which once again shows that he is a better tactician than his Saiyan rival.

It is unknown exactly how long Goku and Vegeta were in “that place” training in order to master their new godly powers. Goku mentioned that the measurement of time in “that place” was different than the outside world.

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Eventually, Whis releases the two back into the real world. Like the length of time they were in “that place”, it is unknown how much more powerful the two had become. The only thing that we know came as a result was the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan transformation.

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The one thing that I felt caught my attention during their time in “that place” was Whis’ staff. Goku figured that it was the only way of getting out of the void. Take a look at the picture above of Whis’ staff just floating there.

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I always wondered what Goku and Vegeta’s walk towards the light in the opening theme of Dragon Ball Super was all about. After seeing them train, I think that I have figured it out.

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From that same light, we see Beerus/Champa along with Whis/Vados descend to the front of our television (or computer) screens.

Overall, I think Goku and Vegeta approaching that light was their ascension to the level of gods. Then seeing the 4 gods mentioned above coming out from that light is proof of Goku and Vegeta trying to follow in their footsteps in order to reach a higher power.

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This is further backed up by the fact that the next scene shows Goku, Vegeta, Gohan and Goten fighting off Frieza’s soldiers; which symbolized the Resurrection F saga which is happening now.

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I guess one difference is that in the anime, Frieza powering up to his final form killed his remaining soliders before Goku and Vegeta could take them on; minus Vegeta killing Tagoma (well Ginyu).

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Alright, Whis mentioned that Goku and Vegeta had a chance at beating Beerus if they teamed up. Super Saiyan Blue is more powerful than Super Saiyan God, and this means SS Blue is more powerful than the 70% Beerus that we saw in the first movie.

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Individually, I do not think that SS Blue Goku or Vegeta could defeat Beerus. I think that is proven by the fact that Golden Frieza (before his ki began to fall) was more powerful than SS Blue Goku, but he was still frightened of Beerus.

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Beerus would probably need to exhaust around 85% or so to defeat the likes of Golden Frieza, and 80% for a single SS Blue opponent.

Again, that is just my opinion with a tiny bit of power scaling based on what has been seen from the movies.

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Moving on with the Time Chamber training, Goku and Vegeta train in 10 times gravity for 3 years. During that time, it would not surprise me if the duo reached Super Saiyan Blue 2 and Super Saiyan Blue 3!

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However, Akira stated in an interview that the SS2 and SS3 transformations were a thing of the past with the main focus being on SS1 because it was the form that utilized the least ki consumption and strain on the user’s body.

I do not know if SS Blue will be the last transformation that we will see in the series. Unless we get to see an SS Blue Vegito or Gogeta!

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Something tells me that at some point during the Champa Saga or afterwards; Goku and Vegeta will fuse! I have already written a couple of blogs with my thoughts on that subject.

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Back to the subject of this blog, I do not see any reason why Goku and Vegeta have NOT surpassed Beerus after their 3 years of training. We are talking about a God of Destruction who does nothing aside from eating, sleeping and watching anime (Whis mentioned that to Goku and the others.

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Compare that purple cat to a couple of warriors who eat, breathe and do nothing but train! I truly believe that their training has resulted in them surpassing the God of Destruction. Unless they get into a battle again with Beerus, I am not sure if they are even aware of their increase in power to the point of rivaling Beerus or surpassing him.

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I do not think that they have surpassed Whis, but I think a fusion between the two would give him one heck of a battle. Why? Given the time that the two have trained with each other instead of training separately against each other, I think it is safe to say that they know each other like the back of their hands.

Seeing if the two have truly mastered Whis’ training of their weaknesses is something that I would like to see. After the time spent fighting each other, I think they might have seen what makes the other Saiyan a genius in their own right. Vegeta’s polished and tactical strategies vs. Goku’s out-of-the box techniques that keep even the most dangerous opponents on their toes.

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Imagine a Gogeta or Vegito that is made up of a Goku and Vegeta that have trained/sparred together for YEARS! I think it is obvious that fusion would be a true blend on even terms of Goku’s relaxed nature and Vegeta’s tense demeanor.

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Whis would be in for one heck of a fight if you ask me!

3 years is a long time, and the Saiyans know how to improve their skills in a short period of time. Just thinking about how much they could have advanced in 3 years is just unbelievable. I wonder if there are any of the Universe 6 opponents who are near the level of Goku and Vegeta now.

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Do you think that Goku and Vegeta have surpassed Beerus? Did they reach a new transformation or fuse in the Time Chamber? Will there be anyone from Universe 6 that can truly give them a challenge?

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

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Dragon Ball Super: Will Vegeta Skip Super Saiyan God?

By Jeremy Carden

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The Saiyan Prince has once again vowed to surpass the Super Saiyan God Goku by following his own path to the level of god.

While some fans have dismissed Vegeta’s attempts to surpass Goku as nothing more than the hotheaded Saiyan once again biting off more than he can chew, I think there is more to it that than.

Yes, I am a HUGE Vegeta fan. Honestly, he is my favorite character in the entire Dragon Ball franchise. However, I am not writing this as a Vegeta fanboy without using some details and information from the series to back up my theory.

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Please keep in mind that I am simply a DB fan writing on the subject of Vegeta POSSIBLY obtaining “Super Saiyan Blue” without going Super Saiyan God.

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DB Wiki (a website that can be edited by fans meaning that any information from it can be taken with a grain of salt) has dubbed Vegeta’s transformation/power-up against Beerus as “Furious Mutation.”

It is described as follows:

Upon being overcome by an extreme rage, the user powers up into their strongest form, however their power skyrockets even further than usual, temporarily blanking out their eyes. In this state, both his skin and body turns with a slight pink tone and blue bolts surround him. Even when the user calms down after using the power-up, the power boost remains.

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Overall, Vegeta lost it after seeing Beerus slap Bulma which caused him to snap.

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This is similar to his assault against Super Perfect Cell after he killed Future Trunks right in front of his eyes.

The key difference here is that even after calming down after his hissy fit (blasting Cell with dozens of ki blasts); Vegeta’s power during his rampaging moment was not sustained.

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Vegeta’s moment of rage was very similar to Gohan’s outburst during the DB series. He would go into a fit of rage whenever he was pushed into a corner, or if someone close to him was hurt by a villain.

From being smacked around with ease to beating the hell out of his opponent, Gohan’s power soared to new heights. However, that power would disappear when he calmed down.

Unlike his past moments of rage, Vegeta had gained a grasp on his enraged power during the Battle of Gods arc.

After the battle with Beerus, Vegeta’s Super Saiyan 2 power had increased from the “Furious Mutation.” He still had access to the power in that state, and was working to increase it even further.

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During episode 16, Vegeta was training alone on a mountain or in the middle of a wasteland. He was seen standing in the rain, and then began powering up when the sun came out.

It was almost as if he was trying to tap into the power he had used against Beerus, and from there take it to the next level.

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Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta perhaps?

Maybe, but sadly I doubt that because of the serious drawbacks that Super Saiyan 3 has when compared to the god level transformations.

In any case, I will say that a Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta would NOT be someone to take lightly.

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Considering the fact that Furious Mutation Vegeta was mentioned to be more powerful than SS3 Goku was (prior to ascending to god level), SS3 Vegeta would a lot stronger than SS3 Goku!

Let’s say that after mastering the Furious Mutation (which made SS2 Vegeta more powerful than SS3 Goku), Vegeta finally goes SS3. That would increase his power Super Saiyan 2 power by 4 making him over 4 times more powerful than SS3 Goku was!

Again, this is just an interesting speculation in terms of Vegeta surpassing Goku.

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Getting back to the true subject of this blog, I think a couple of questions have been raised about Vegeta’s ascension to the level of god. These are the 2 questions to keep in mind:

  1. Can Vegeta skip Super Saiyan God in order to obtain Super Saiyan Blue?
  2. Will Vegeta skip Super Saiyan God in order to obtain Super Saiyan Blue?

It would not surprise me if Vegeta WILL skip SS God in order to get to SS Blue. However, I am not 100% sure if he CAN skip SS God in order to get to SS Blue.

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Saiyan beyond God is the middle form between Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue.

After a Saiyan that has obtained Super Saiyan God reverts back to base form after the god transformation’s time limit runs out, their body can absorb that godly realm of power. This results in the Saiyan’s base form being on a similar level of power as a SS God.

Then if the Saiyan can truly master the power of SS God in the Saiyan beyond God form, going Super Saiyan allows the user to add godly ki to the transformation.

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Meaning that Super Saiyan Blue is a regular Super Saiyan transformation, but it has the presence of godly ki. Keep in mind, the Saiyan is NOT 100% god or 100% Saiyan.

It is almost like a Saiyan-God hybrid of sorts, but it is a powerful transformation without the time limit of SS God.

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Whis told Vegeta that if he learned to control his ki, he could potentially be able to surpass Goku.

Personally, I did not truly understand what Whis meant by that. Was he saying that a Saiyan with ki control could surpass a Saiyan at the god level?

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t Goku and Gohan learn about ki control during the Cell Games arc?

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During their training in the Time Chamber, they learned to master the Super Saiyan transformation. This allowed them to control their ki output and maintain their base form personality traits even while transformed as Full Power Super Saiyans.

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Vegeta never trained under the same methods as Goku and Gohan. That was why he had trouble cracking an egg due to using too much force.

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This was very similar to Goku and Gohan trying to hold glass cups during their downtime before the battle with Cell.

Will Vegeta’s training with Whis be similar to Goku and Gohan’s training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber? Basically, they maintained the regular Super Saiyan transformation as long as they could until it felt normal (their new base form).

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I’m hoping that in the next episode, we get to see flashbacks of some of Vegeta’s training. He has been on Beerus’ planet for 6 months, and Whis thought it was the perfect time for Goku to travel there as well.

This could hint at Vegeta being near Goku’s power, but the way he achieved that power has yet to be revealed.

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We do see Vegeta and Goku doing basic chores to help maintain the upkeep of the area where Beerus sleeps.

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After watching those scenes, it reminded me of Goku and Krillin doing chores like delivering milk along with farm work while training under Master Roshi.

If I were to make a semi-educated guess on Vegeta bypassing SS God to obtain SS Blue, I would say that the Saiyans participating in the SS God ritual got a small taste of god power themselves.

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I mean they are transferring their ki into one Saiyan in order for the Saiyan to reach SS God.

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Who is to say some of that godly ki isn’t transferred through all of the participants in the ritual, but only one truly ascends to the SS God level?

That explanation is the only one that I can think of that would actually make some sense as to how Vegeta could skip the SS God transformation in order to get to SS Blue.

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If Vegeta does skip SS God, I think that would be cool because it shows that he wants to surpass Goku, but he will do it on his own. That would be an interesting change of pace from DBGT where he had to rely on Bulma’s Blutz Waves device in order to become SS4 in order to help close the gap between himself and Goku.

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Whis could be training him to master his own ki, and the “sample” of godly ki that was given to him through the SS God ritual for Goku. This is what could allow Vegeta to go SS Blue which is a blending of Super Saiyan and godly ki.

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What do you think? I would love to hear your thoughts in the comment section below.

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below.