Dragon Ball Super: Will Vegeta Skip Super Saiyan God?

By Jeremy Carden

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The Saiyan Prince has once again vowed to surpass the Super Saiyan God Goku by following his own path to the level of god.

While some fans have dismissed Vegeta’s attempts to surpass Goku as nothing more than the hotheaded Saiyan once again biting off more than he can chew, I think there is more to it that than.

Yes, I am a HUGE Vegeta fan. Honestly, he is my favorite character in the entire Dragon Ball franchise. However, I am not writing this as a Vegeta fanboy without using some details and information from the series to back up my theory.

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Please keep in mind that I am simply a DB fan writing on the subject of Vegeta POSSIBLY obtaining “Super Saiyan Blue” without going Super Saiyan God.

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DB Wiki (a website that can be edited by fans meaning that any information from it can be taken with a grain of salt) has dubbed Vegeta’s transformation/power-up against Beerus as “Furious Mutation.”

It is described as follows:

Upon being overcome by an extreme rage, the user powers up into their strongest form, however their power skyrockets even further than usual, temporarily blanking out their eyes. In this state, both his skin and body turns with a slight pink tone and blue bolts surround him. Even when the user calms down after using the power-up, the power boost remains.

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Overall, Vegeta lost it after seeing Beerus slap Bulma which caused him to snap.

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This is similar to his assault against Super Perfect Cell after he killed Future Trunks right in front of his eyes.

The key difference here is that even after calming down after his hissy fit (blasting Cell with dozens of ki blasts); Vegeta’s power during his rampaging moment was not sustained.

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Vegeta’s moment of rage was very similar to Gohan’s outburst during the DB series. He would go into a fit of rage whenever he was pushed into a corner, or if someone close to him was hurt by a villain.

From being smacked around with ease to beating the hell out of his opponent, Gohan’s power soared to new heights. However, that power would disappear when he calmed down.

Unlike his past moments of rage, Vegeta had gained a grasp on his enraged power during the Battle of Gods arc.

After the battle with Beerus, Vegeta’s Super Saiyan 2 power had increased from the “Furious Mutation.” He still had access to the power in that state, and was working to increase it even further.

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During episode 16, Vegeta was training alone on a mountain or in the middle of a wasteland. He was seen standing in the rain, and then began powering up when the sun came out.

It was almost as if he was trying to tap into the power he had used against Beerus, and from there take it to the next level.

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Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta perhaps?

Maybe, but sadly I doubt that because of the serious drawbacks that Super Saiyan 3 has when compared to the god level transformations.

In any case, I will say that a Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta would NOT be someone to take lightly.

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Considering the fact that Furious Mutation Vegeta was mentioned to be more powerful than SS3 Goku was (prior to ascending to god level), SS3 Vegeta would a lot stronger than SS3 Goku!

Let’s say that after mastering the Furious Mutation (which made SS2 Vegeta more powerful than SS3 Goku), Vegeta finally goes SS3. That would increase his power Super Saiyan 2 power by 4 making him over 4 times more powerful than SS3 Goku was!

Again, this is just an interesting speculation in terms of Vegeta surpassing Goku.

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Getting back to the true subject of this blog, I think a couple of questions have been raised about Vegeta’s ascension to the level of god. These are the 2 questions to keep in mind:

  1. Can Vegeta skip Super Saiyan God in order to obtain Super Saiyan Blue?
  2. Will Vegeta skip Super Saiyan God in order to obtain Super Saiyan Blue?

It would not surprise me if Vegeta WILL skip SS God in order to get to SS Blue. However, I am not 100% sure if he CAN skip SS God in order to get to SS Blue.

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Saiyan beyond God is the middle form between Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue.

After a Saiyan that has obtained Super Saiyan God reverts back to base form after the god transformation’s time limit runs out, their body can absorb that godly realm of power. This results in the Saiyan’s base form being on a similar level of power as a SS God.

Then if the Saiyan can truly master the power of SS God in the Saiyan beyond God form, going Super Saiyan allows the user to add godly ki to the transformation.

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Meaning that Super Saiyan Blue is a regular Super Saiyan transformation, but it has the presence of godly ki. Keep in mind, the Saiyan is NOT 100% god or 100% Saiyan.

It is almost like a Saiyan-God hybrid of sorts, but it is a powerful transformation without the time limit of SS God.

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Whis told Vegeta that if he learned to control his ki, he could potentially be able to surpass Goku.

Personally, I did not truly understand what Whis meant by that. Was he saying that a Saiyan with ki control could surpass a Saiyan at the god level?

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t Goku and Gohan learn about ki control during the Cell Games arc?

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During their training in the Time Chamber, they learned to master the Super Saiyan transformation. This allowed them to control their ki output and maintain their base form personality traits even while transformed as Full Power Super Saiyans.

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Vegeta never trained under the same methods as Goku and Gohan. That was why he had trouble cracking an egg due to using too much force.

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This was very similar to Goku and Gohan trying to hold glass cups during their downtime before the battle with Cell.

Will Vegeta’s training with Whis be similar to Goku and Gohan’s training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber? Basically, they maintained the regular Super Saiyan transformation as long as they could until it felt normal (their new base form).

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I’m hoping that in the next episode, we get to see flashbacks of some of Vegeta’s training. He has been on Beerus’ planet for 6 months, and Whis thought it was the perfect time for Goku to travel there as well.

This could hint at Vegeta being near Goku’s power, but the way he achieved that power has yet to be revealed.

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We do see Vegeta and Goku doing basic chores to help maintain the upkeep of the area where Beerus sleeps.

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After watching those scenes, it reminded me of Goku and Krillin doing chores like delivering milk along with farm work while training under Master Roshi.

If I were to make a semi-educated guess on Vegeta bypassing SS God to obtain SS Blue, I would say that the Saiyans participating in the SS God ritual got a small taste of god power themselves.

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I mean they are transferring their ki into one Saiyan in order for the Saiyan to reach SS God.

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Who is to say some of that godly ki isn’t transferred through all of the participants in the ritual, but only one truly ascends to the SS God level?

That explanation is the only one that I can think of that would actually make some sense as to how Vegeta could skip the SS God transformation in order to get to SS Blue.

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If Vegeta does skip SS God, I think that would be cool because it shows that he wants to surpass Goku, but he will do it on his own. That would be an interesting change of pace from DBGT where he had to rely on Bulma’s Blutz Waves device in order to become SS4 in order to help close the gap between himself and Goku.

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Whis could be training him to master his own ki, and the “sample” of godly ki that was given to him through the SS God ritual for Goku. This is what could allow Vegeta to go SS Blue which is a blending of Super Saiyan and godly ki.

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What do you think? I would love to hear your thoughts in the comment section below.

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

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Dragonball GT: Adult Gotenks

by Jeremy Carden

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Why didn’t Gohan go Mystic?

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How come Vegeta doesn’t go Super Saiyan 3?

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Was there a reason that Pan never went Super Saiyan?

These are some of the MANY questions that fans ask about the GT series. However there is one that baffles the minds of fans and makes them very angry due to the absence of one particular character in GT. What a lot of fans wanted to see was the adult version of Gotenks.

One of the most impressive things to me personally would be if Goten and Trunks got the Fusion Dance correct on their first attempt. There was a 10 year gap between Z and GT so Gotenks probably didn’t appear during that time.

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They did use the Fusion Dance in the movie/special that took place 2 years after the defeat of Kid Buu, Yo! Son Goku and his friends return! However they got it incorrect on their first try and then got it right on their second try admitting that they were out of practice.

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In the next movie Battle of Gods which takes place 3 years later, they get it down on their first attempt BUT a quick spanking from Bills takes Super Saiyan Gotenks out of the fight.

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Well moving on 5 years later we see Goten and Trunks at age 17 and 18 but no sign of Gotenks most likely due to no major threat at the end of Z it is just them fighting in the World Tournament.

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So, moving on 10 years later we arrive at the beginning of GT. Originally Vegeta and Chi-Chi were going to send the two slacker Saiyans into space with Goku to find the Blackstar Dragonballs. However due to Pan basically doing something that contributed to this series going down the toilet…

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She pressed the start button to go into space leaving Goten behind so for a year there was no Gotenks in sight. The reason I say year is since they have a full year to find the balls and bring them back before the Earth explodes.

I’ll go on a limb and say what a lot of fans might just agree on; there were PLENTY of times when Gotenks could have or should have made an appearance!

I’m sure if Goten were in space with Trunks and Goku instead of Pan, Gotenks was going to throw down on some galactic monsters and robots!

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Come on I could see Gotenks fighting against General Rilldo or Luud and those would have been some interesting battles instead of seeing a Kid Goku just beat every down like they were nothing.

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Another reason I’m confident in Gotenks being seen during their travels in space is because Goten AND Trunks had not been training at all. Think about all of the time Trunks was EASILY taken down during battles.

  1. Ledgic wiped him out with one punch
  2. Cardinal Mutchy Mutchy distracted him with a whip and threw him to the ground leaving it to Goku to finish him off
  3. Mutchy held off Trunks for awhile with a pile of bricks thanks to his psychic abilities and it was only after turning Super Saiyan was he able to get them off of him
  4. One mouth blast took him out of the battle with Luud again leaving it up to Goku to win (along with Pan’s help)

Just a few examples of how Trunks’ lack of training didn’t do anything positive while traveling with Goku. It pretty much proves that Vegeta was right with him and Goten being way too soft during the times of peace.

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Moving on to later in the Baby Saga, Gotenks should have appeared during the fight with the giant Golden Ape Baby. However, Goku said that Gotenks would not be enough even if Gohan, Gotenks and himself fought.

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He then opted to take their energy to recharge himself to a full power Super Saiyan 4. The flaw I see in this is that Gotenks most likely could have offered more Ki to Goku than Goten and Trunks separately. Not to mention they probably could have recharged Goku even faster than they did by doing the Fusion.

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I would have loved to see Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks trying his hand at stopping that rampaging ape!

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Then in the Super 17 Saga, even though it would not have been necessary (except against General Rilldo most likely) to take out all of the returning villains Gotenks could have been used to take them out with ease.

Alright now here is where we get to the point that it was outright ridiculous for Goten and Trunks to have not fused! The 2 Android 17s fused into Super 17 but Goten and Trunks opted to fight solo…

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Seriously, the two Androids fused to become a much stronger being but Gotenks did not appear to fight? Really the writers screwed up on that one! I know with Gotenks being as cocky as he is, I’m sure he’d get in some massive Ki attacks that would have just made Super 17 stronger but still it would have been cool to see.

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Finally we get to the Shadow Dragons Saga when all of the Z Fighters unite to help Goku against Syn/Omega Shenron. Again the Saiyans are used as “batteries” to recharge Goku so he could surpass his limits as a Super Saiyan 4.

Gotenks should have appeared to help charge up Goku faster but again…oh well you know what happens!

When trying to stall Omega for Goku and Vegeta to fuse, it makes sense that Goten and Trunks don’t fuse because those two and Gohan gave their Super Saiyan powers to Goku so them not even going Super Saiyan to stall Omega was understandable since their powers probably hadn’t returned yet.

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After Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta makes the scene, Majuub (who everyone seemed to forget about after he got blasted in the face by Syn) appears saying that they should fuse to help out. However Gohan points out that their power levels wouldn’t be equal since Majuub got injured so badly and that he should heal first.

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Then in the final stand against Omega before his defeat by the Universal Spirit Bomb, Gohan/Trunks/Goten return to help Vegeta fight off the dragon but are quickly defeated. Again I was another chance for Gotenks to appear to help give them a better chance even if it was a slim one.

It is a shame Gotenks had multiple opportunities to appear in GT but the writers just didn’t deliver. What I would have loved to see more than anything else was if Gotenks would have any new or crazy attacks in his arsenal. Remember Goten and Trunks were not even 10 and they had deadly attacks like the Super Ghosts and Galactic Doughnut! I think that is what would have made me laugh the most seeing Gotenks goofy around with dangerous opponents like Omega or Super 17.

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However in the Japanese Arcade Game Dragonball Heroes we are finally given an Adult Gotenks!

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What a lot of fans question is the change in Gotenks outfit; black undershirt, Capsule Corp. boots and Trunks’ gloves instead of the traditional Fusion Dance outfit. I think it is an interesting change so they would not look like another Gogeta after fusing but that is just my opinion.

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This seriously would have been one of the things that could have improved GT. In the trailer for DB Heroes, Adult Gotenks appears fighting Oceanus Shenron along with other characters in the game. Not to jump off topic but I think that if the Shadow Dragon Saga did not just focus a majority of time on Pan and Goku it would have been a lot better than it was.

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Something I might cover in another blog is my opinion on how the Shadow Dragon Saga should have been Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Majuub, Goten and Trunks going off to different locations to fight individual Shadow Dragons before coming up against Syn Shenron before a final showdown with Omega. That again would have been a chance for Gotenks to fight in the GT series!

 

What are your thoughts on the absence of Gotenks in the GT series? And do you feel that his appearance in DB Heroes is a hint of things to come in future DB games?

Dragonball GT: Who was stronger Super Saiyan 4 Goku or Great Ape Baby?

by Jeremy Carden

This is one of the long standing debates of Dragonball GT which begs the question which one of these 2 was the most powerful.

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If you ask me the battle between Goku and Great Golden Ape Baby Vegeta is like a seesaw in that the tables kept turning to the point that it is difficult to tell which of these two was actually winning.

There were multiple factors that came into play during their fight that makes me unsure as to who was more powerful;

  1. One of the most important being the size difference between Goku and Baby after he turned into an ape
  2. Baby losing slight control over himself as the Old Kai stated
  3. Bulma turning the tide of the battle in Baby’s favor with the Blutz Wave Machine
  4. Goku’s Ki being recharged by his sons, Trunks and Pan

And the list goes on as to how the battle went back and forth when it seemed like one side had the advantage over the other. To make things a bit easier to comprehend, I’ll go over what we do know about the battle between Goku and Baby.

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Well Goku was pretty much a mindless beast as a Great Golden Ape just thrashing around the Planet Tuffle. Even when Baby tried attack him it only resulted in him being smacked around until he decided to retreat in order to reach the same kind of power. It wasn’t until Pan helped him realize who he was and what he was fighting for that Goku snapped out of his animal instincts and reached Super Saiyan 4!

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He was toying around with Baby at first letting him score melee attacks and Ki blasts which ended up doing nothing but make Goku retort that they only felt like a feather. Even a Revenge Death Ball (which was supposed to kill Goku in their first fight on Earth until Kibito Kai saved him) did absolutely nothing to Goku.

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After letting Baby get his attacks in with no success, the gloves were off and Goku mopped the floor with the Saiyan/Tuffle!

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Just when Goku was able to kill Baby Vegeta with a Kamehameha Wave that was when the tide turned and Bulma’s Blutz Wave Generator/Machine transformed Super Baby Vegeta into a Great Ape.

Now Goku was shocked that his opponent whom he was about to kill had powered up and the tide of the battle changed.

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Well if Goku had gone ahead and killed him while he had the chance then it wouldn’t have ended up this way. Even Old and Kibito Kai said that he shouldn’t be toying around with Baby…

In any case, the battle started with Baby acting like well an ape. It was basically a repeat of Baby vs. Goku as an ape with him smacking Goku around. Baby spent most of his time rampaging like an ape reigning down destruction to his own planet and killing his own followers. People were screaming in terror at the Ki blasts and Flame Breath he was using on the city.

It wasn’t until later we discover that Baby was acting like an ape simply to act like an ape and to know what it felt like to be Goku; an out of control ape.

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Though after Goku took the full force of a Super Galick Gun in order to save the Earth from blowing up, Old Kai mentions that the method of growing back his tail through the Blutz Wave Machine actually had a negative effect that was evident in Baby’s eyes and this caused Baby to experience fits of rage and a loss of control. The Saiyan instincts were taking over and Baby was fighting to keep his sanity. Even before being hit by the rays from the machine, he asked Bulma if he would be able to control himself because he only wanted to kill Goku not wreck his whole planet.

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When Baby was about to finish off Goku he was shocked to discover that the 10x Kamehameha Wave was actually a latent attack in order to catch Baby off guard.

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After that Goku and Baby knocked each other out cold!

So that was pretty much Round 1 of their battle and we really don’t know WHO was more powerful because knocking each other out generally means that they were more or less even.

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One of the most impressive feats of the battle was Goku literally throwing Baby to the ground by grabbing one of his fingers. That is pretty powerful considering that Goku wasn’t emitting an aura showing that he was holding back power in that moment.

Right before that Goku was able to break out of Baby’s powerful grip by powering up!

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So that might indicate that Goku was more powerful but the size difference between him and Baby prevented him from a quick victory.

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Though I must admit that if Goku WAS more powerful than Baby why did he have to rely on a delayed Kamehameha Wave to distract Baby? If he could have emitted enough Ki to kill Baby once and for all (which I actually thought he did) then why didn’t he do it? I’m guessing because he couldn’t but that’s just my opinion.

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When Bulma fires ALL the Blutz Waves being emitted from the Earth it not only revives Baby but it makes him more powerful and physically bigger than before. The negative effect that had on Goku was that his Ki was depleted heavily since the Earth was taking the place of the full moon and since all the Blutz Waves were being sent to Baby, Goku was getting weaker.

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Baby was so powerful that just by giving out a roar he was able to destroy buildings and his power was felt by Trunks who was far off on another section of the planet flying towards the action after being freed from Baby’s control thanks to the Sacred Water.

Goku being out of energy was bluffing until Baby called it and was on the verge of killing him until Pan stepped in. Goten, Gohan and Trunks arrive on the scene and Goku asks for them to give him their Ki so he can become a full power Super Saiyan 4 once again.

Pan says that it IS the only way because before Bulma’s machine made Baby more powerful, Goku had that ape on the ground! Now here is the line that a lot of fans use as proof of Goku being more powerful;

Baby; “That little brat is right, I cannot let him power up again!”

This might indicate fear because if Baby was 100% confident in his new power then he would do what any other villain in the past would do and let his opponent power up seeing it as no threat; Cell did this with Gohan and Buuhan was willing to let Goku fuse with someone using the Potara Earrings but Baby was like Frieza and paranoid of the threat of a Super Saiyan or in this case Super Saiyan 4.

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From there he starts attacking the group to prevent them from giving Goku their Ki. Now here is where I figure that Baby was weakened. After recovering from the Solar Flare, Baby charged up a Super Galick Gun and prepared to kill the group before he is attacked from the inside!

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Majuub who was previously eaten by Baby after being hit by his own Chocolate Beam reverts to his human self and powers up inside of Baby’s digestive system crippling the giant ape. If you ask me I think that Majuub’s assault brought Baby’s power down. Seriously Baby was in severe pain as if he was losing a battle against extreme indigestion. After spitting Majuub out he attempted another Galick Gun to kill the Saiyans BUT it was too late…

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Goku was once again at full power!!!

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Moving on to the final round of their battle he and Goku fire Ki blasts at each other and pause with both panting very hard. This again shows that they were more or less on even ground. Even Gohan and Trunks comment on how they are more or less even with Gohan mentioning that Baby might have the upper hand since Goku had taken more damage only for Pan to say that Goku HAS to win this.

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Now here is where things go wrong on Baby’s part; he starts throwing a temper tantrum making rash attempts at killing Goku. Back when Goku lost his first battle with Baby, he discovered that it was Baby’s weakness that he didn’t like being made fun of because he would throw a fit losing his cool. Goku did the same here mocking Baby saying that his Super Galick Gun probably would have hurt…if it actually hit him that its…

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Baby fires a powerful Super Galick Gun which Goku dodges with ease and that just makes Baby angrier. He pulls off a rapid fire version of the Super Galick Gun that doesn’t even hit Goku but instead causing lava to emerge from underneath the ground causing a HUGE cloud of smoke where he finds cover for his final attack.

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He charges up the Revenge Death Ball Final in an attempt to kill Goku once and for all. Goku doesn’t dodge but catches the blast but is pushed into a cliff where he is absorbed by the blast and feels the negative Ki breaking his body but his will and love for his friends and family somehow allows him to absorb the attack?

Yeah I’ll get into that later…

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From there he powers up a 10x Kamehameha Wave that knocks out Baby before blasting his tail off which forces him to revert back to his Baby Vegeta form and he exits Vegeta’s body in an attempt to escape the planet.

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Goku waits until his ship is at the right angle and blasts him into the sun!

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Baby is fried to a crisp at that is the end of the Tuffle!

Alright so in the end Goku wins that battle with the Great Ape. The question still remains though who was stronger? I suppose that Goku as a Super Saiyan 4 IS more powerful but there is still room for debate as I mentioned above. There were a lot of factors that tipped the scales of this battle in Goku AND Baby’s favor with no true clear winner.

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We don’t know how much a Great Golden Ape transformation multiplies a Saiyan’s power. The regular Great Ape form is a 10x power increase. Many fans say that the Great Golden Ape form is the “Super Saiyan of Legend” that Vegeta talked about in the Ginyu Saga. He even says that the Saiyan could only hold the form while in the Great Ape state. However, that is only in anime filler and never mentioned/seen in the manga so it is up to you as to whether or not you feel that Saiyan from Vegeta’s story IS the Great Golden Ape or aka the Super Saiyan of Legend. Well GT is non-canon so it is what it is and I’ll leave it at that.

I’ll be one to say that I do believe that the Great Golden Ape and the Saiyan from Vegeta’s story IS the same transformation. Vegeta said that the Saiyan was drunk with power destroying the planet he was on and as a result killing him.

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Goku was practically doing the same to the Tuffle Planet causing volcanic activity until he was reaching up for the earth showing that he had some memory of his “former self” which Pan helped him to remember.

In any case with some fans believing the Great Golden Ape form to be the “Super Saiyan” version of the Great Ape form some say that the form is a 50x increase of the base power just like a Super Saiyan transformation is. I GUESS this is a plausible theory because the Great Ape form is the true form of a Saiyan which is 10x the Saiyan’s power so if the Golden Ape is 50x that it would mean that Great Golden Ape Goku is 500x more powerful than base form Goku.

Super Saiyan 4 is 10x stronger than a Super Saiyan 3 meaning 4000x base power so…

Yeah it is really up to you to decide how you feel about that.

Great Ape Baby Vegeta was not just Vegeta’s power it was Baby’s as well. Keep in mind that Baby alone was not that powerful.

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Let’s see Baby had grown into a “teenager Baby” before taking over Vegeta’s body. He had gotten huge power boosts from taking over Goten and Gohan. Then he absorbed Ki from Trunks, Bulla, Gohan and Goten allowing him to transform into Baby Vegeta 2.

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Finally, he absorbs the Ki from the Earthlings-turned-Tuffles which was all negative Ki from their hatred of the Saiyans for the Revenge Death Ball which transformed him into Super Baby Vegeta.

So Baby Vegeta received 2 huge power ups prior to becoming a Great Golden Ape.

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And I believe the reason he wasn’t able to go Super Saiyan 4 even though he was “in control” of himself for the most part as a Great Golden Ape was because Vegeta wasn’t the one in control and Vegeta was technically a Tuffle and not a full blooded Saiyan. From what I can gather anyone who is not 100% Saiyan is not able to turn SS4. So Gohan, Goten and Trunks being 50% wouldn’t be able to turn SS4 which is ridiculous in my book.

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Finally, going back to what I mentioned before; how the heck did Goku survive those Revenge Death Balls?

I kind of feel that the reason he was able to do so was because those attacks were not enough to destroy him. Either that or the fact that the attack is made of 100% negative Ki which is the exact opposite of the Spirit Bomb which is made of 100% positive energy. The reason Goku could survive it was because he is a positive being well at least in base and Full Power Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 1 he is pure of heart.

Now as a Super Saiyan 4 I don’t think he is but since this is GT I don’t know if the same rules apply…

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I’m going out on a limb and say that Goku was so powerful that the Revenge Death Ball and the Flaming Death Ball were not powerful enough to inflict major or any damage to him.

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But when in terms of the Revenge Death Ball Final that was complete bull! Goku was literally trapped in the center of the blast and was suffering from the attack. It wasn’t until he refused to lose for the sake of his loved ones was he able to overpower the attack and it literally seemed like he absorbed the attack somehow.

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Kind of like how he did Bills’ ultimate attack in Battle of Gods…just throwing that out there…

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I’m just guessing that his positive energy overpowered the attack like how SS4 Gogeta was able to use his own life force to transform Omega Shenron’s Negative Karma Ball into positive energy and that attack was 100% negative energy as well so let’s say that is the reason Goku was able to “absorb” or cancel out the attack.

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So in the end Super Saiyan 4 Goku reigns supreme! Baby had to deal with his own temper tantrums, the psychological battle with himself and the Saiyan body he was controlling and a smaller/faster opponent. Goku had to deal with a larger opponent, Baby Vegeta was arguably insane threatening to blow up Earth which caused Goku to jump into an attack to save the planet, a huge loss of Ki thanks to Bulma’s machine and finally a beating from the Great Ape that almost killed him until he got his Ki recovered.

If Baby Vegeta DID go Super Saiyan 4 then who knows who the victor might have been…

Overall, I think Majuub did weaken Baby Vegeta lowering his power enough for Goku to more or less have the upper hand.

What do you think was Goku outright the most powerful of the 2 or did Baby have more power but was outsmarted by Goku?

Could Bulla and Pan surpass Goten and Trunks?

By Jeremy Carden

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Yes, I will be talking about the two female Saiyans in the show (well females with Saiyan blood in them).

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As a matter of fact, aside from Fasha they are the only female Saiyans that gets a memorable role in the show…

What I mean by them surpassing the boys is that since these two are born from “rivaling” families (to a certain extent), I think these two would be the female counterparts to what Goten and Trunks were.

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Of course the other difference is that unlike Goten, Pan’s father was Gohan not Goku.

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However, the end result is the same she is the newest addition to the Son family and along with that she has access to incredible power.

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Now, it seems that Pan is going to be born before Bulla due to the events of Battle of Gods with Videl being pregnant and Bulma not being shown or mentioned to be carrying a baby inside her.

Not to get off subject but I feel that the reason for Bulma getting pregnant again would most likely be due to Vegeta’s love for her. Whoa, why would I say something like that?

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Remember in Battle of Gods, when Bills slapped Bulma HARD, Vegeta got PISSED THE F*** OFF! That was when his Super Saiyan Ki (according to Roshi) surpassed even the power of Super Saiyan 3 Goku!! I think he said something like “How dare you hurt my BULMA!!!!”

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That was when he went into a fit of rage actually managing to land some hits on Bills something that SS3 Goku, Fat Buu, Mystic Gohan, Piccolo, SS Gotenks and that other Z-Fighters were unable to do!

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After the events of the movie, I can see these two having another “passion trip” like they did in the Android Saga but this time there would be more than just passion but true love behind it!

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In any case, back to the manner at hand; GT was a real shame not just because of the lack of character growth for Gohan and the other Saiyan hybrids but Bulla was just…useless.

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Her only moment of usefulness (similar to Pan having only one making her existence somewhat bearable) was getting Vegeta to shave his mustache.

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Pan’s only real use (aside from being annoying and messing stuff up) was her tears helping Goku reach SS4.

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Also, in Battle of Gods it was Pan (unborn) who helped Goku reach Super Saiyan God! Wow, she wasn’t even born and already she has one up’ed Bulla!

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Pan was the one shown to actually have powers, true we see Bulla flying (once) but that was only when she was controlled by Baby. It is debatable as to whether or not she knew how to fly before. Let’s say that it was Trunks or Vegeta that taught her but we can’t be sure. If she learned how to fly, I’d imagine it was just for her to get to the mall faster than a car or one of the Capsule Planes could take her…

What a waste of Saiyan blood!

What a waste of Saiyan blood!

You know what the real shame is? Pan was only 25% Saiyan while Bulla was 50% Saiyan, talk about an utter waste of Saiyan blood and what is even worse is that aside from Ki training most likely from Gohan.

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She learned some martial arts from Mr. Satan and still proved to be more powerful in combat than Bulla!!

Hercule; I'm more powerful than a Saiyan?

Hercule; I’m more powerful than a Saiyan?

I don’t know what Bulla’s excuse for not fighting is but when you get out shined by one of Mr. Satan’s disciples (and possibly Mr. Satan himself), I don’t know what to say for you!

Pan guess what! I'm stronger than a Saiyan!!!!

Pan guess what! I’m stronger than a Saiyan!!!!

Bulma; My daughter is weaker than Mr. Satan???

Bulma; My daughter is weaker than Mr. Satan???

Pan and Goku; Uh-huh...

Pan and Goku; Uh-huh…

My life means nothing...

*face palms dashboard* My life means nothing…

I'm so ashamed...I disown you as a daughter!

I’m so ashamed…I disown you as a daughter!

OW! What was that for?! At least I'm not a cross dresser!

OW! What was that for?! At least I’m not a cross dresser!

Trunks; Can I pass as your daughter now dad?

Trunks; Can I pass as your daughter now dad?

SON OF A NAMEK!!!!!!

SON OF A NAMEK!!!!!!

Vegeta; That's it Bulma, we are having a third child and this time we'd better get it right!!

Vegeta; That’s it Bulma, we are having a third child and this time we’d better get it right!!

Vegeta should have pushed her like he did Trunks so he’d surpass Goten! I mean she is 50% Saiyan and her father is the Prince of All Saiyans!!!!!!!

Bulla_ss!!!

If anyone should have become a Super Saiyan it should have been her! Well just from genetics alone since she has 25% more Saiyan in her than Pan.

Of course being the daughter of one of the wealthiest companies in the world probably did nothing to motivate her to take the training route instead opting to go shopping, she seems like her mother.

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But at least in the DB and early DBZ days, Bulma never backed down from an adventure. She was spoiled but she was innovative, resourceful, adventurous, a genius even at 16, passionate, strong (well in a comedic sense especially when hitting Roshi) and had something that her daughter doesn’t seem to have; drive.

Bulma might have been deceptive, selfish and spoiled but when she saw something in life that she wanted, she went for it!

That was the whole reason she went to hunt down the Dragonballs; to get the prince of her dreams (and she got it many years later!).

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Bulla’s only drive is to shop at the mall…

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Now if you want to talk about genetics similar to how people assume how Goten and Trunks were able to go SS very easily when they were young because Goku was most likely in his Full Power Super Saiyan form when he had sex with Chi-Chi.

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In Trunks’ case, it is kind of likely that Vegeta WAS able to go Super Saiyan when he was born or if he wasn’t he sure as heck was very close to it, he had the power level to go Super Saiyan but just not the right motivation.

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Let’s go down that route; Vegeta was able to go Super Saiyan 2 at the time of Bulla’s conception while Gohan was able to do the same BUT since he had his “Mystic abilities” that MIGHT point to Pan being conceived while having a father more powerful than Bulla’s but that is debatable depending on how you view the Mystic abilities playing a part in conception vs. Super Saiyan.

Because if you view it that way, that would mean Goten has FAR more potential than Trunks considering Full Power Super Saiyan Goku was WAY more powerful than Vegeta was prepping for the Android Saga or if he was in fact a Super Saiyan at the time of Trunks’ conception.

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But I digress, seeing that Gohan’s Mystic abilities would trump Vegeta’s power that would either give Pan more potential that Bulla or at least even up the playing field since she is 25% less Saiyan than Bulla.

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True, Bulla again does have more Saiyan blood BUT only one of her parents is a fighter; the 100% Saiyan Vegeta.

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While her mother is just a human.

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Videl is too but she spent most of her life studying martial arts and though she might not powerful by Saiyan standards or by the standards set by Human Z-Fighters like Krillin, Yamacha or Tien. She is still in the ranking of the top non-powered human.

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True, she can control her Ki for flight and short range Ki blasts but she doesn’t have super human strength or even the power to compete with Roshi (base power 139).

That does give Pan a bit more of a warrior/fighter heritage if you want to put it that way.

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And most likely, true to her father’s power she might have the potential to experience incredible fits of rage boosting her power greatly.

This was seen when she was fighting; (here are some examples)

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Great Ape Baby Vegeta

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Natt on M-2.

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I wouldn’t count the fight with Haze Shenron, honestly that was the only time I felt she was CLOSE to going Super Saiyan just by how pissed she was getting due to being insulted. The main reason she was not able to transform was most likely due to the energy sucking pollution by the 2-star dragon. It was probably what prevented her from getting her Ki in control to make the transformation; remember Goku couldn’t even go SS while in the area.

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Overall, I don’t think that Pan’s power level was enough to compete with #18 who is still arguably the strongest female character in the series.

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Not counting Zangya since she was in Bojack Unbound and that was non-canon. But GT wasn’t canon either so…oh well who cares

But if she continued her training and found that right motivation this was sure to happen:

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According to most sources, it was mainly due to the creator(s) of the show never really drawing illustrations. So, there was really no telling what a female Super Saiyan would look like.

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A great moment was in “Family Bonds” when she offered her power to help restore Goku’s Super Saiyan 4 energy. Hercule mentioned that she was a little girl not a Super Saiyan only for Kibito Kai to mention that she certainly has the heart of a Super Saiyan!

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Aside from genetics and whatnot, I think that these two could not only become more powerful than Goten and Trunks but I feel that they could become Super Saiyans faster than they did.

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Why?

A sad fact of life that all men will hear at least once in their lives while they are children; girls mature faster than boys!

Seriously, that might do a lot in terms of helping these girls develop their abilities faster than Goten and Trunks!

Don’t believe me?

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Well do you remember what 4-year-old Pan did to her 17-year-old uncle Goten at the World Martial Arts Tournament?

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Yeah the pictures pretty much speak for themselves…

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Now just because girls mature faster, that doesn’t necessarily mean that their power could exceed Goten and Trunks but in order for that theory to be made into fact, the boys would have to continue training instead of goofing off in times of peace…

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I mean we got a “ladies’ man” in Goten.

What am I doing with my life?

What am I doing with my life?

Trunks was running the family business for Bulma.

Now, if Pan and Bulla both trained hard then something tells me by the time they reached 7 or 8 (same ages of Trunks and Goten in the Buu Saga), they MIGHT be more powerful than them.

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Remember Gohan’s boastful comment when he told Goten that he was the youngest Super Saiyan in existence? He was shocked to see Goten (age 7) already has the ability to transform, but now imagine the look on his face to see his record broken by two little girls!

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In Son Goku & His Friends Return, it is estimated that both Goten and Trunks (base form) have power levels around 530,000 since the two soldiers from Frieza’s empire who have taken over since Frieza’s demise are said by Tarble to have the same power as “Frieza did back them” most likely referring to his 1st form because that would have been the only form that Tarble knew about.

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Going by those numbers, turning Super Saiyan would make both Goten and Trunks’ power level go to 26,500,000. Remember they were kids not men like their fathers when they turned Super Saiyan so that number is understandable; their dads didn’t reach those power levels until they were in their adult years (mid-20s for Goku and Vegeta was over 30!).

Now aside from female Super Saiyans there is something else that the girls would have to accomplish to further challenge the power of their male counterparts;

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FUSION!

That would be incredible to see; a female Fusion Dance warrior!

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Seriously, I really hope that in the “revamp” of the series (if there is one or continuation) they explore the possibilities of making Bulla strong and do better with Pan’s development as a female fighter.

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Also take into consideration that Pan appeared to be the only living Z-Fighter 100 years after the events of the Baby Saga. There is no telling what kind of powers she achieved before becoming elderly.

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It was a real shame we didn’t see more father/daughter moments between Gohan and Pan.

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Or Bulla and Vegeta…

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Not to mention any brother/sister moments with Trunks. Most of his screen time was him being seen with Pan.

What do you think?