By Jeremy Carden
Let’s see if we can put the final nail in the coffin by putting an age-old debate to rest: Who is more powerful Gogeta or Vegito?
To fully evaluate this topic I’ll be looking at the manga, anime, the movie Fusion Reborn and yes even Dragon Ball GT…
In order to make sure I do everything I can to leave no stone unturned I will be looking at the series fans stick their noses up at due to it “not being canon.” However, Fusion Reborn is not canon either meaning that if I ignored it then there would be no debate here. I couldn’t do a solid evaluation without using the movie. Before reading any further, you need to let go of any convictions you have against non-canon material because without it this blog would not be happening.
The main focus of this “battle” will be Super Saiyan 1 Gogeta and Vegito.
I will be looking at base Vegito and Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta. Even though I wasn’t going to do it from the start, I’ll be taking a glimpse at the two in their Super Saiyan 3 forms just to spice things up. Just keep in mind that in the end, I’ll be deciding on who I think would win based on their Super Saiyan forms.
Power is one thing, but I think the main factor in deciding which Saiyan truly is superior can only be done by taking a look at both the Fusion Dance and Potara Earrings.
This method of fusion was created by the Kais through the use of their special Potara Earrings. In order for two beings to fuse, the only thing that needs to be done is for one being to have an earring on their right ear and the other being to have an earring on their left ear…then there you have it instant fusion!
Of course this method of merging does come with its negative side effects…
- The fusion is PERMANENT (unless you go inside of Buu’s stomach for his digestive enzymes to separate the fusion) and even if the fused being removes their earrings it will not result in a split of the two beings…they are stuck forever!
- If one or both of the individuals merging are in a powered up form it may result in the fused being having a shortened life span. As Old Kai pointed out to Goku when he thought going Super Saiyan prior to using the earrings would be the best way to get the maximum potential out of the fusion, the Kai said that the strain on the fused body would shorten his life
This method of fusion was something that Goku learned from the Metamorans during his time in Other World. Using this type of fusion results in a new being much stronger than the two individuals alone and it only lasts for 30 minutes. Overall, this method of fusion is much more complex than the Potara method of uniting fighters because it demands much more from each individual.
- Both warriors must be near equal in terms of height
- Both warriors must have equal power levels
- Both warriors much execute the dance (which Goku compared to traditional water ballet and fighting stance/pose) perfectly
- According to Piccolo, the two individuals must breathe in the same rhythm illustrating that both beings must be one in terms of thought, mind, power, height and pretty much everything for the dance to be successful
So now that both methods of fusion have been evaluated, it is time to tackle the biggest form of controversy: Old Kai saying that Potara is BETTER than the Metamorans’ Fusion Dance.
It can be interpreted in one of two ways:
- Old Kai was saying that Potara creates a more powerful being than one fused using the dance
- Old Kai was pointing out that in terms of drawbacks, Potara wins over the Fusion Dance
Personally, I feel that #2 is the one that relates to what he was saying. Just by comparing the 2 Fusion methods it is easy to see how Potara fusion is better:
- If the Fusion Dance is performed incorrectly even slightly, the end result is a failed fusion that is either old/sickly looking or VERY overweight
- The Fusion Dance only lasts for 30 minutes (less than 30 minutes the more powerful the fused being is)
- After the fused being splits due to time running out, they cannot be joined together again until a full hour has passed. This is a very bad handicap especially if the battle takes longer than half an hour
- It takes time for the users to sync their powers and make sure that their poses are done correctly unlike the Potara fusion which simply requires the users to place the earrings on opposing ears
After Old Kai gave his life to restore Goku’s, the Saiyan was excited to go back to earth to merge with Gohan to stop Majin Buu. Old Kai asks how he plans on defeating the Majin and if he really expected him to just wait around for Goku and Gohan to get to equal power and execute the dance in order to perform the technique.
Overall, I think of the Potara Fusion as a Hot Pocket and the Fusion Dance as a pizza from Domino’s. While one method of fusion can be completed almost instantly (Hot Pocket taking a couple of minutes to be done) and the other might take a while for results to be delivered (Pizza delivery sometimes takes 30+ minutes) but it is worth the wait. Just keep in mind that convenience is not always the best option.
Now there is another thing that Old Kai mentioned that fans have taken to heart in terms of saying that Vegito is more powerful than Gogeta: The Rivalry Boost
While watching the battle between Super Vegito and Super Buu, Kibito Kai was stunned at how easily the Saiyan was ripping Buu to shreds. Old Kai said that it is not surprising due to Goku and Vegeta being two of the most powerful fighters in this world (Other World) and the next (most likely referring to the physical realm of the universe below the heavens). He then goes on to say that due to them being rivals, it actually made the fusion MORE complete!
Basically, fans say that because Old Kai said Vegito is “more complete” it means that not only is he more “fused” than other Potara beings but he is more powerful than the average Potara being as well.
Alright, I will say that it does make sense and possibly means that Vegito is more powerful than “normal” when compared to other fused beings. However, I do not think that the “rivalry boost” only applies to the Potara fusion.
Here is one thing that I noticed about the Potara fusion; it combines the clothing of the fused beings.
This is not the case for the Fusion Dance which dresses the fused being in what is apparently traditional clothing worn by the Metamorans.
In the case of Kibito Kai, it seems that the Supreme Kai (Shin) is the dominant persona. This is speculated by his skin color, voice and facial appearance. To me this illustrates the fact that Kibito was the bodyguard of his master Shin and when fused he is “present” in physical stature while the dominant personality is Shin.
Let’s compare this to Vegito; the Saiyan has not only the combined clothing of Goku and Vegeta but along with that are their voices being blended and both personalities being shown in the way that they act. This could further demonstrate that their rivalry did indeed make their fusion more complete than Kibito and Shin where there was a hierarchy. Kibito served Shin while Goku and Vegeta (are from different parts of the Saiyan hierarchy due to their Saiyan blood) had a bond that kept them in competition with each other with neither of them “serving the other.”
Now despite the Fusion Dance being a different method of fusion, I feel it is important to determine whether or not the rivalry boost is exclusive only to the Potara fusion. If you ask me, I don’t think that it is…
Looking at Gotenks, we have Goten and Trunks who are best friends and almost like brothers. Their bond of friendship is arguably as strong as the rivalry between their fathers! When fused, their voices (like Vegito’s) are blended together and you can hear both Goten AND Trunks while Gotenks is talking.
The same can be said about Gogeta because after fusing you can hear Goku AND Vegeta’s voice when he is talking. This could once again demonstrate that the bond between the individuals prior to fusing might actually produce a stronger than average being after they join together.
So, there could be a “Friend Boost” just like a “Rivalry Boost” if you want to look at it that way. However, this is all left up to perspective and personal opinion. I really cannot see how Goku and Vegeta can get a “Rivalry Boost” in one fusion, but not in the other.
Now we get to the power of Goku and Vegeta prior to fusing to become both Gogeta AND Vegito. One takes place in the Fusion Saga while the other occurs in the movie Fusion Reborn.
Despite not being in the official timeline of the series, Fusion Reborn had to have taken place sometime after Goku’s one day in the living world and after the revival of Majin Buu. This is confirmed when Goku tells Janemba that Majin Buu is the only other person to push him to use Super Saiyan 3 in a battle before. Not only that, the fact that the boys used the Fusion Dance to become Gotenks shows that Goku did have time to teach them (or at least show them and Piccolo took it from there) before returning to Other World.
We do know that the battle between Majin Vegeta and Super Saiyan 2 Goku did take place because Vegeta was in Hell just like in the main series after using the Final Explosion to kill Buu but it failed.
In the series and manga, it is confirmed that Vegeta and Goku were equal in power at the Super Saiyan 2 level. Goku once again proves to be the superior Saiyan by increasing his power 4 times over with the Super Saiyan 3 form. In any case, Fusion Reborn shows that even without Super Saiyan 3…Goku was more powerful than Vegeta.
After being sent to Hell, Vegeta was a bodiless soul doomed to wander for eternity in Hell with no memory of his former self. Goku on the other hand was on Grand Kai’s Planet training and getting stronger. This once again placed him above Vegeta in terms of power. When Janemba’s power caused a rift in dimensions breaking the boundaries between the living and the dead, Vegeta “awoke” to find himself in his body.
In the Fusion Saga, Goku gets his life back when Old Kai sacrifices himself to bring Goku back to life. King Yemma sends Baba to return Vegeta (still dead but with his body) back to Earth to fight Super Buu. Goku and Vegeta are both still even (aside from Goku’s Super Saiyan 3 form) unlike their Fusion Reborn counterparts.
One unanswered fact about Fusion is how the fused being gets their power. Some fans figure that the Fusion Dance results in a being with the powers of the two individuals added together while the Potara Earrings allows a multiplication of the two beings power (not to mention the “Rivalry Boost”). Honestly, I cannot give an answer because even I cannot come up with a solid theory on this. Something that most people speculate is that the Fusion Dance is a bit more complicated in terms of power because if both individuals aren’t of equal power that means one of them has to lower their power to reach the equal stats of their “dance partner.”
Trunks had to lower his power to match Goten’s so when the two fuse to become Gotenks, what happened to the “leftover” power that Trunks concealed to equal Goten’s? It is just another one of those things that fans are left to debate about.
30 minutes really isn’t that long…
Another factor that needs to be explored is time. Considering that one fusion is permanent while the other is temporary can play a huge element in the outcome of this battle.
In terms of the Fusion Dance, the more powerful the fused being is after using the dance it appears that the 30 minute time limit is decreased.
Gotenks can only hold the Super Saiyan 3 form for 5 minutes before he either reverts back to his base form or the fusion splits him back into Goten and Trunks. It all depends on how much Ki he exhausts and the condition of his body (if he is damaged or worn out).
Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta was so immensely powerful that he was only able to exist for 10 minutes before he split back into Super Saiyan 4 Goku and Vegeta!
The Potara Fusion does not have this handicap because even if let’s say Super Saiyan 3 Vegito runs out of Ki to sustain the Super Saiyan 3 form, he would go back to base Vegito not Goku and Vegeta again.
If 30 minutes isn’t long then how can 10 minutes or less be enough time for Gogeta to wipe the floor with Vegito?
Something else that needs to be taken into account is the body of the user of let’s say Super Saiyan 3. Gotenks is only a boy while Goku is a man well a warrior who is more equipped to handle the power. Vegito is worlds stronger than Gotenks and Goku in terms of power, endurance, etc. If he were to use Super Saiyan 3 then I believe he’d handle it better than Gotenks and Goku.
Gogeta would be able to do the same BUT I feel that if he did use the form it would not do him much good because after a few minutes I think he would either revert to base form or the fusion would split. If he were to use Super Saiyan 3, he’d have to get the job done ASAP.
Alright, so we’ve covered Fusion methods/time/power of Goku & Vegeta so now it is time to get down to what you all have been waiting for: Gogeta vs. Vegito!!!
The first thing that comes to mind when trying to compare these 2 is by looking at the threats that they had to face. I mean what was the reason for their existence in the first place?
Gogeta: Goku and Vegeta were no match for the dimension-busting Super Janemba. After fusing into Gogeta, the sword-wielding villain was destroyed in a matter of seconds by the Super Saiyan!
Now you have to keep in mind that this was a movie and it could not be stretched out over the course of several episodes like in the main series. That could be one reason why Gogeta wasn’t shown displaying various emotions or being cocky like other fusions; Gotenks, Vegito or even Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta.
It could be because Gogeta KNEW the dangers of allowing Janemba to exist. If Janemba continued then the barriers between all dimensions and reality were doomed to fall apart.
Vegito: Super Buu (Buuhan) was far more powerful than the 2 Saiyans and in order to stand a chance they were forced to fuse.
Despite being anime-only, base form Vegito seemed capable of destroying Buu prior to becoming a Super Saiyan. For what it is worth, Old Kai did say that going Super Saiyan after fusing would not be necessary because the fusion alone would allow enough power to finish the job. You could argue that his statement only applied to Super Buu when Gotenks was his main power source.
In another anime-only scene, Buuhan is literally on the verge of ripping through multiple dimensional walls at once.
This was one of the few if only times that Vegito is actually seen TRYING against the Majin. The Super Saiyan powered up to bust through Buu’s bubble and delivers an uppercut to knock him senseless.
Both Super Saiyans easily picked their foes apart with little to no effort and because of this we never saw the full extent of Gogeta or Vegito’s actual power.
Something else to keep in mind is that Vegito purposefully held back a lot of his power to vex Buu enough to the point where the beast had no other option but to absorb him.
This could possibly demonstrate the fact that the people fusing can actually have control. Goku told Vegeta that Bulma and the others were trapped inside of Buu and they can’t even die. Of course we know better because those “eaten” by Buu were killed, but everyone he absorbed was inside of Buu. I mean Goku didn’t really know that so I can’t fault him for being incorrect when he made that statement to Vegeta. I don’t think he’d lie like that JUST to have a psychological impact on Vegeta making him want to fuse with him.
Learning this shocked Vegeta and it made him want to fuse and with that being said it makes sense that Goku and Vegeta concocted the plan to be absorbed from the beginning.
Before fusing into Gogeta, both Saiyans knew the threat Janemba presented to ALL reality and that could explain why he didn’t fool around and quickly killed the beast.
Now I cannot really say what the case was for Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta. I mean to be fair, I’m guessing that Gogeta was under the impression that he did have a full 30 minutes. He had no clue that he only had 10 minutes before the fusion ended. The power must have gone to his head and knowing he could defeat his opponent was what made him toy around.
Even after fusing, Vegeta scolded Goku saying that it was “him” who wanted to play pranks and toy around instead of finshing the battle right away. That might explain the pointlessness of the Bluff Kamehameha that just covered Omega Shenron in confetti.
Goku then retorts that it wasn’t “him” that was just the way he and Vegeta act when “they are together.” That actually makes sense when comparing him to Vegito and how he acted when facing Buu by playing with him for the whole battle. One could argue that Gogeta was waiting long enough for Omega to use an attack negative enough for him to reverse the power and lift the negative energy engulfing the earth before killing him. However it was shown from the defeat of the other dragons that if they are killed and the Dragonballs are brought back to normal free of cracks then the negative power in that area of the globe would be removed.
I suppose it is the urgency of fusion that might determine how they act after fusing. Who knew that psychology would play a role in determining who is stronger just as much as power plays a part in all of this?
Another argument going on between fans is which opponent was more powerful: Super Janemba or Super Buu (Gohan absorbed)?
Personally, I feel that Super Janemba is around the same level of power as Super Buu (prior to absorbing the Z-Fighters). It is true that he is the physically embodiment of the evil Ki that resides from the beings in Hell which includes everyone like Cell and Frieza. However, I feel that he is not on par with the power of Buuhan. I do feel that his abilities will allow him to hold his own but still I don’t think that it would be enough.
Goku was dominating Janemba in their hand to hand combat, but it wasn’t until he started warping reality did he beat the Saiyan down.
While inside Buu’s head, Goku tells Vegeta that neither of them could defeat the Majin while in their individual bodies (maximum of SS3 for Goku and SS2 for Vegeta) and fusing was their only option to win.
Inside the mountain made of needles, Goku says the same thing about how they’d both be slaughtered if they went out there to face Janemba again. This was pretty much not far at all from the truth given the fact that Janemba took out SS2 Vegeta in seconds and nearly killed SS3 Goku before that.
Notice that in both cases the situation is very similar with both Goku and Vegeta getting caught in a tight situation before the suggestion of fusion comes about. It is Super Janemba and Super Buu rather than Super Janemba and Buuhan!
Not counting the blows base Vegito took from Buuhan (without showing any damage at all), let’s take a look at a couple of punches that might add some light on this situation.
Janemba powers up in a rage to strike Gogeta right in the skull and the Saiyan does not flinch! Buuhan takes a deep breath to calm down and teleports right in front of Vegito who reacts with quick reflexes to block the punch! Gogeta saw the hit coming and Vegito was caught by surprise so I can’t really tell how to interpret this. Does this mean Janemba was so weak that Gogeta didn’t have to block and Buuhan was so powerful that his hit HAD to be blocked? Buu unleashed a barrage of punches that Vegito blocked in that one position before he teleported away and dodged Buu with impressive speed. In any case, I still say that Buu is more powerful but Janemba has the techniques to keep up with Buu. Unlike Buu, Janemba can break through dimensions at will but Buu needs to be deeply enraged in order to do so.
Overall, I feel that in terms of power Gogeta is stronger but not by a huge amount of power. The real question is: Would Gogeta be able to defeat Vegito before the Fusion Time ran out? I don’t think that Vegito wouldn’t be able to hold his own long enough to survive.
You have to keep in mind that these 2 practically are capable of the same abilities. I do know that each one of them has exclusive moves in their fusion.
Gogeta has the Stardust Breaker and Big Bang Kamehameha
Vegito has the Beam Sword Slash and Final Kamehameha
Both are extremely fast and can use the Instant Transmission which would make it difficult for one to land a hit on the other.
Not to mention Gogeta and Vegito have the combination of the never say die attitude, brutal and tactical fighting style of Vegeta along with the creativity and excitement of Goku. As Vegeta said in GT, Goku takes huge risks with his Ki during combat and it pays off for the most part. Goku even said multiple times that the more powerful his opponent, the more excited he becomes allowing him to fight at his maximum and brings out the best in him.
I think if Vegito and Gogeta actually did meet face to face it would be interesting. They would finally be fighting an opponent practically as powerful as themselves. It would not be a battle where they could simply knock around their opponent as they did with Janemba and Buuhan.
Vegito would probably mock Gogeta for being formed from a “ridiculous looking dance” while Gogeta would poke fun at Vegito’s earrings.
I could see the “Goku” in them getting pumped meeting someone they can go full-force against. While the Vegeta in them would scoff at the mere thought of anyone being close to him in power.
The battle would most likely start with both of them sizing up the other just to get a feel of the other’s power.
Keep in mind that Gogeta’s time limit is on the line here. He’d probably have to be like Goku fighting Majin Vegeta saying that time is of the essence so let’s just skip the warm-up and get right to it!
Now considering that I think Gogeta is just a tad bit more powerful than Vegito that might possibly mean he is faster. Remember what Vegeta told Cui about how a higher power level also means increased speed. With that being said, Gogeta would be faster than his Potara Counterpart.
So the bout between the Super Saiyan fusions might actually wind up with Vegito taking the fall.
Super Saiyan 3
Depending on how you look at it, the battle between these 2 at Super Saiyan 3 could go 1 of 2 ways:
- Gogeta going Super Saiyan 3 means he would not be able to stay fused for a full 30 minutes and he might defuse or revert to base form before defeating Vegito
- The fact that Gogeta is dead means his body could handle Super Saiyan 3 better than the “living” Vegito.
Well considering that Vegito is “half dead” since Vegeta was dead when he fused with Goku might mean Vegito could handle Super Saiyan 3 50% better than Goku or Gotenks…and yeah that makes things a lot more complicated than it should be!
Super Gogeta is 100% dead and as Goku told Piccolo and Vegeta, Super Saiyan 3 was easier to maintain in a dead body than in a living one due to the energy consumption. He says that in Other World SS3 was well easy…
Even if Gogeta raises his power to the maximum, I think that his energy supply would outlast Super Saiyan 3 Vegito even if it results in his fusion time being decreased due to raising his power too high.
So the bout between the Super Saiyan 3s once again comes down to whether or not Vegito could hold out just long enough for Gogeta’s power or fusion time to run out.
Super Saiyan 4
Considering we don’t see Vegito as a Super Saiyan 4, it would not really be fair or even a point to doing this battle. All we can assume is that Vegito has to only hold on for 10 minutes before Gogeta’s fusion splits. If he can do that then he could win by a “technical knockout.”
Now the same applies for base and Super Saiyan 2 form because we don’t see base form Gogeta or either of them at Super Saiyan 2.
And no I don’t think Veku should play a role in this evaluation just because well…he was a weakling. He was hilarious as I don’t know what, but still not necessary for this blog. Unless of course Goku and Vegeta fused incorrectly and Vegito could just kill him with a nasty look.
So there you have it, I believe that in an all-out battle to the finish the winner would be Super Gogeta. Now I’m not saying it is impossible for Vegito to win because the main thing would be him being able to last long enough until Gogeta’s power or fusion time ran out.
What do you think who is the superior fusion?
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