Dragon Ball Super: Will Goku and Vegeta Fuse?

By Jeremy Carden

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After watching Revival of F, I have a very strong hunch that Dragon Ball fans will once again see a Goku/Vegeta fusion!

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If you ask me, I think that Whis’ main goal in training the Saiyan duo is not only to help them perfect their fighting abilities as individuals, but to also make them understand that they need to learn how to work together.

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Whis pointed out that Vegeta is too tense and Goku is too carefree. The two are practically opposing opposites when it comes to fighting. Vegeta is the more brilliant fighter, but Goku is better when it comes to off the wall combat (a good fighter that does not go by the books, he is better at overcoming obstacles by thinking outside of the box).

I mean if you look at the times when the two actually worked together to defeat the odds, you have to admit that they make a very potent combo!

For a moment, forget about what is canon and what is non-canon. Think back to some epic moments within the Dragon Ball franchise when these Saiyans actually teamed up.

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The Return of Cooler was a movie where neither Saiyan could take Cooler on in his new form.

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When they put aside their differences, the team destroyed 1 Meta-Cooler robot (before 1,000 showed up). In the end, they overpowered the Big Gete Star achieving victory!

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In the anime-only battle with Buuhan, each Saiyan was getting wrecked by the “mightiest Majin.”

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Goku convinced Vegeta to use the Potara Earrings in order to save the universe, and Vegito was beating around Buu with ease!

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How about when Super Janemba was able to defeat Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta?

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They ended up creating Gogeta in order to send that demon back into oblivion!

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Finally, the threat of Omega Shenron proved too great for even a couple of Super Saiyan 4s to stop!

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Once again, fusion created Gogeta to stop another threat to the universe (though this time around; Gogeta did not get the job done…).

My point is that Goku and Vegeta are extremely powerful as individuals, but working together has proven that the two can overcome almost any obstacle in their way.

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I think Goku said it best when he was describing the Fusion Dance back during the Buu Saga. He said that a being created from the fusion would be capable of accomplishing feats that neither individual could do alone.

Don’t you think that Vegito and Gogeta fit that description perfectly? I mean whenever the Saiyans fused, it was because they realized that they did not stand a chance of winning against their opponent at the time as individuals. They had no other option but to fuse in order to defeat the odds with overwhelming power!

Now the question remains as to whether or not Goku and Vegeta will actually fuse in the Dragon Ball Super series.

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Originally, I thought that if there was a movie to follow Revival of F; the two would fuse again. You have to admit that the movie itself seemed like a setup in order for the Saiyans to realize that they need to work together in order to achieve the best results.

I mean they fought against each other instead of fighting together against Frieza, and the entire world was destroyed (until Whis reversed time) due to their unwillingness to work as a team!

At the end of the film, Goku mentioned that their battle with Frieza was proof that Whis was correct when he said that they should work together more. However, Vegeta scoffed at the remark about them working together. With laughter, Goku agreed that it would never happen.

Is that right?

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Considering that Champa, Universe 6 and the Super Dragon Balls will appear in the DB Super anime/manga; I think the two WILL fuse again!

Why?

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With 11 other universes out there that contain beings more powerful than Beerus AND Whis, the Saiyans will eventually come across opponent(s) too powerful for them to defeat alone.

Fusion would be their only option, and it will be their trump card in order to win against their foes.

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As I mentioned in another blog about Gogeta appearing within the DB Super series, I think that the two fusing would be their completion of their training under Whis.

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I feel this way because as I mentioned above, Whis is teaching the two how to overcome their individual weaknesses, and to also work together as a team.

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Considering that Lord Beerus could be defeated if the two worked together (Whis mentioned this), I think Goku and Vegeta teaming up would be a threat to even gods more powerful than Beerus from some of the other universes!

Whis seeing the two truly working together would be the icing on the cake (because we know how Whis and Beerus love to eat) to their training.

Fans are split as to which fusion would actually appear within the DB Super series. Some say that Gogeta will finally make an appearance, and others are strongly behind Vegito reappearing.

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The thing that gets me is when fans say that Gogeta CAN’T appear because he is NOT considered canon. Personally, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. True, his appearance in GT and Fusion Reborn were considered my most to be non-canon. However, the Fusion Dance itself IS canon because the technique appearance in the anime and manga.

Goku knows about the dance, and he would show it to Vegeta if necessary for them to actually fuse against an opponent. Of course, I am sure that he would object to it because of the prissy movements needed to execute the technique. He did perform an embarrassing bingo dance to save the planet from destruction. What harm could performing one little ballet dance (Fusion Dance) do?

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Think about how upset he was when he had to hold hands with Goku in order to teleport to earth using Instant Transmission! Although, I thought he could have just placed his hand on Goku’s shoulder or something, but I guess the writers wanted to make that scene as awkward as they possibly could.

In my opinion, I believe that Gogeta will be the one who appears in the DB Super series if the Saiyans ever fused.

Why?

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Do you really believe that Vegeta or Goku would want to do a permanent fusion (again)?

The only reason Vegito split was because of Buu’s digestive system breaking the Potara Fusion apart.

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In Battle of Gods, Revival of F and DB Super Episode 5, whenever fusion was mentioned it was a reference to Vegito NOT Gogeta. This is because Vegito was the only fusion between the two to appear in both the anime and manga.

Unless we see Vegito from one of the other 11 universes, I do not think that he will appear again. Perhaps there is another universe where they used the Potara Fusion, but for whatever reason they did not split apart.

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This is what happened in the DB Multiverse series because there was a universe where Vegito did not remove the barrier protecting him within Buu’s body. After escaping with the absorbed Z-Fighters, Vegito killed Kid Buu (and the fusion stayed intact).

I know that DB Super is changing some of the events of Battle of Gods/Revival of F, but it is still unknown whether or not the ending of DBZ anime/manga will be kept the same. I am not just referring to Uub appearing and then leaving to train with Goku.

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I am talking about Goku and Vegeta not being fused into Vegito because we see them as two individual Saiyans.

That is why I feel that if they do fuse, Goku and Vegeta would use the Fusion Dance to become Gogeta.

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Who is to say that the Kais couldn’t make special Potara Earrings that would allow a temporary fusion?

However, that would be like opening a can of worms in order to make Vegito show up again.

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Another possibly is that Whis (or another being) knows of a fusion technique that we have never seen before! There really is no clear understanding on where the story of DB Super is going because it has just started. I am really excited because of the revival of the DB franchise as a whole, and anything can happen!

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I could care less about which fusion appears because I love both Gogeta and Vegito. The one thing that I want to see more than anything is an opponent that makes a Goku/Vegeta fusion actually HAVE to use their full power!

Remember that Super Gogeta, Super Vegito and Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta dominated their opponents with ease. We never got to see the full extent of their power, and that is something that a lot of fans would want to see at some point.

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Can you imagine the power and techniques utilized by a full power Gogeta or Vegito? It makes me excited because any awesome techniques from the series are almost always put into DBZ video games. Not to mention the possibility of a new Super Saiyan level!

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Which fusion do you think will appear in the future; Gogeta, Vegito or someone entirely new?

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

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Dragon Ball Z: Can Ultimate Gohan Turn Super Saiyan?

By Jeremy Carden

I love to write about the topics that Dragon Ball fans either debate about the most or rarely think about. In this case, I believe the topic of this blog is something that fans have been debating about since the Buu Saga was first released.

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The subject of this blog is about whether or not Gohan has the ability to transform into a Super Saiyan while in his Ultimate form.

Let me start off with what some Dragon Ball sources have to say about Ultimate Gohan becoming a Super Saiyan 1 and Super Saiyan 2. Daizenshuu 2 seems to be the primary source regarding the Super Saiyan transformations that Gohan is still capable of even after Old Kai’s ritual:

“Daizenshuu 2 states that Gohan’s dormant power is bottomless. It also states that Ultimate Gohan is still capable of becoming a Super Saiyan, but even without utilizing the form he surpasses Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks in power, if Ultimate Gohan was to become a Super Saiyan his power would likely rise to levels above even Super Buu (Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks absorbed).”

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Now I will give my thoughts on the above statement from the Daizenshuu, I agree that Gohan’s dormant power is essentially bottomless. This has been shown time and time again throughout the series.The second part of the statement is something that I also agree with because Gohan was easily able to beat up Super Buu.

Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks on the other hand was more or less on par with the Majin, but he was not able to completely dominate him like Gohan did.

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As for the final part, I will say that I agree with a Super Saiyan Ultimate Gohan being able to surpass Buuhan. However, that depends on whether or not the Super Saiyan transformation would still raise Ultimate Gohan’s power 50 times over according to the Super Saiyan multiplier chart.

I mean we know that Ultimate Gohan was the strongest un-fused character in the series at that point during the Buu Saga. Could you image his power being increased by 50 with a Super Saiyan transformation, and potentially 100 times over with a Super Saiyan 2 transformation?!

I dare say that his power might even surpass that of Vegito if he had used any Super Saiyan transformation as Ultimate Gohan! However, that again is only based on whether or not the Super Saiyan multipliers would come into play with Ultimate Gohan going Super Saiyan 1 or 2. Honestly, I cannot really see why they would not be applied aside from plot purposes where Gohan was meant to lose to an opponent.

Here is another piece from Daizenshuu 2 regarding Gohan’s power:

“Ultimate Gohan can still transform further into a Super Saiyan, however, even without transforming his power still surpasses Gotenks. Ultimate Gohan is rarely shown transforming into a Super Saiyan form throughout his appearances, though he does when found as a necessity as seen in Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods when he helped contribute to making Goku become a Super Saiyan God. Later, not keeping up with his training during Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection ‘F’, he became a Super Saiyan when fighting Shisami and effortlessly beats him. Gohan going Super Saiyan in his Ultimate form was powerful enough as to where it concerned and made the newly empowered Frieza to attack and kill Gohan so his men could have a chance as Frieza himself says Gohan alone is more than capable of beating all 1000 men by himself. Gohan was brought back to life by Piccolo moments later.”

As you can see, the statement above is in reference to Gohan’s power from Battle of Gods and Revival of F.

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In the trailer for Battle of Gods, we saw Gohan powering up into a Super Saiyan (we assume Super Saiyan instead of Super Saiyan 2 due to lack of an electric aura, but the same can be said about Vegeta when he powered up without an electric aura in a rage over Bulma being smacked).

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During the actual movie, Gohan is powering up into his Ultimate form to battle Beerus.

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While the Saiyans tried twice in order to get Goku to the Super Saiyan God level, Gohan was a Super Saiyan in both attempts.

At the start of the film during the party, it appears as if Gohan was in his base form due to his appearance.

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When the gloves came off to fight Beerus, he powered up into his Ultimate form, and later into a Super Saiyan to give his dad power.

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It does not look like Gohan powered down from his Ultimate form before going Super Saiyan during the Super Saiyan God ritual. This is made apparent by his forelock hanging down, and comparing the lack of said forelock in his regular clothing.

You are probably asking yourself about Ultimate Gohan’s power as a Super Saiyan, and why he did not power up to that level to combat Beerus.

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The same can be said about Gotenks fusing as a Super Saiyan instead of a Super Saiyan 3 to combat Beerus, but I will get to that point later in the blog about how the writer’s plot trumps a character’s power.

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Moving to Revival of F (which takes place about 1 year after Battle of Gods), Gohan’s lack of training has caused his Ultimate form to lose power. True, Old Kai brought his hidden potential to the surface. However, due to no training to maintain that power; Gohan’s 100% power so to speak was much weaker at this point.

Don’t believe this could happen to someone who has their peak power brought to the surface?

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Remember that during the Cell Games, Gohan’s hidden power was brought out in the form of Super Saiyan 2. Due to 7 years of no training, Gohan’s power diminished and this was pointed out by Goku and Vegeta.

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How Ultimate Gohan’s power would decrease substantially due to merely 1 year of no training is beyond me, but that goes back to the power of the plot trumping the power of fan theories. Not to mention that Gohan said that he “thinks” that he could still go Super Saiyan implying that his power and lack of training was so serious that he might not even be able to power up like he used to.

Apparently in Revival of F, Gohan was fighting against Frieza’s army as Ultimate Gohan. I was shocked when I read about this, and this might have been due to Gohan’s new hairstyle that threw me off.

Seriously, I thought that was merely base Gohan easily fighting off Frieza’s soldiers. It is also important to point out that the Z-Fighters (Jaco included) were holding back. Even Frieza noticed that his army was so weak the “earthlings” were not even killing them, but only beating them up with ease despite being heavily outnumbered.

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Frieza was taken aback when Ultimate Gohan went Super Saiyan and took out Shisami in one blow. The power of Shisami has not been revealed, but some sources rank him around the power of Zarbon and Dodorai. This would put him around 22,000 or 23,000.

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However, that would make no sense considering he was fighting on par with Piccolo (Super Namek). Piccolo’s power had LONG surpassed 23,000, and he had accomplished that feat after his training on King Kai’s planet before he arrived on Namek and fused with Nail going into the 1,000,000 power level range.

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He had fought on par with Android 17, and further increased his power after a solo training session in the Time Chamber in preparation for the Cell Games.

I wrote a blog on my thoughts regarding Piccolo’s power during the Dragon Ball series, and you can read that here.

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During that point in the series (Revival of F), I would rank Piccolo at least around the power of a Full Power Super Saiyan Goku or Gohan from the Cell Games.

The fact that Piccolo was a bit worn out from fighting so many soldiers in my mind would not make him weak enough for a Zarbon-level opponent to be giving him a hard time!

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Not to mention that Ultimate Gohan would have to go Super Saiyan in order to knock him out!

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This just goes to show that the plot of Revival of F was meant to heavily lower the power of any character that was not Goku or Vegeta! It was almost as if I was watching GT again…

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However, not to get off subject with a rant, I think that Frieza was right to worry about Gohan’s power. Not only had he experienced that power firsthand when Gohan was a child, but he was right in assuming Gohan alone could have killed his army. A feat that I think Piccolo could have done as well if his power was not crippled by the writers…

You see if Gohan was in his base form (not Ultimate Gohan) fighting Frieza’s army, and had to take out Shisami by going Super Saiyan because by some way of writing his power was on par with Piccolo then it would have made sense.

Why?

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Piccolo is far more powerful than base Gohan, Goku and Vegeta because of his Super Namek fusion. Going Super Saiyan would have been the only way they could have beaten up Piccolo; I’m talking pre-Battle of Gods here folks.

Now for Ultimate Gohan to have to go Super Saiyan to beat this guy seems flat out ridiculous. I might have to write a separate blog about Shisami’s power because of how much nonsense that subject seems to gather.

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First form Frieza “killed” Gohan with a punch to the gut right after he had taken a Senzu bean showing that his new power was nothing to play with.

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I think that it might be safe to assume that even if Ultimate Gohan went Super Saiyan 1 or 2, he might not have been able to tangle with Final Form Frieza as his father did as a Saiyan beyond God.

Aside from the Daizenshuu, there is another source regarding Super Saiyan Ultimate Gohan:

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“In Dragon Ball Z: Dokkan Battle, Ultimate Gohan (Resurrection ‘F’) is also able to further power up into a Super Saiyan 2 form.”

Despite being a video game, it is probably safe to assume that Super Saiyan 2 Ultimate Gohan is actually a reality.

At this point it seems clear that Ultimate Gohan CAN transform into a Super Saiyan 1 and 2.

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However, it is still made unclear why he never utilized this power before in order to defeat his opponents. I know most of you are wondering why he did not use this power in order to defeat Buutenks.

I mean it was mentioned above that a Super Saiyan Ultimate Gohan might have had the power to surpass Buuhan, and that would mean he could have killed Buutenks easily.

While Majin Buu was in the middle of transforming after absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo, Gohan just stood there looking…not doing anything at all.

Goku who was watching from Supreme Kai’s planet through the crystal ball was yelling for Gohan to raise his power because Buu was once again changing.

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Did this mean that Goku knew that Gohan could raise his power higher even in his Ultimate form, or was that simply just dialogue pointing out the obvious for Gohan to not just stand there, but to prep for Buu’s more powerful form that was about to emerge?

I think it is pretty clear that if Ultimate Gohan even went to Super Saiyan 1, he could have killed Buutenks and that would have been the end of the Majin threat.

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Akira Toriyama stated that his original plan was for Ultimate Gohan to be the one to kill Buu, and become the hero of the universe once again as he had during the Cell Games. However, due to Gohan’s personality, Toriyama did not really see him as the one to be mankind’s sworn protector.

That role seemed to fit Goku’s personality more, and though I hate to admit it…he has a good point about that.

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Despite the “logic” of Ultimate Gohan clearly being the one to defeat Buu, Gohan would have most likely gone back to school and lived a normal life. Goku on the other hand would simply train to get more powerful for his own satisfaction, but also to save his earth from future threats.

In a series based on a hero who would save mankind from present and future threats, it would make more sense for Goku to be the one to kill Buu. However, in terms of power and who could have gotten the job done the easiest, that would have been Gohan hands down (or Vegito for that matter).

With that being said, it appears that if Akira allowed Gohan to go Super Saiyan in his Ultimate form, it would not have been the best move for the overall plot. This could be why Ultimate Gohan was simply fighting in his “base form” against Majin Buu.

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This could all go back to Old Kai’s ritual and what it actually did to Gohan’s power. If you ask me, it was very similar to Guru’s method of releasing a being’s hidden potential. Of course, his ritual was much faster than Old Kai’s.

Guru would simply place his hand on the person’s head, and their power would instantly be released.

Old Kai’s ritual seems to last longer if a person has tremendous hidden potential, but does not last as long for someone with little to no massive power buried deep within them.

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I think that both hidden power rituals did the SAME thing to Gohan’s power; bringing his hidden potential to the surface. However, this did not mean that Gohan’s power could not be increased through training and Zenkai boosts.

Gohan’s power seems to be essentially bottomless, and with Zenkai boosts due to his Saiyan blood, Gohan’s strength can and will increase regardless of his hidden power being brought to the surface.

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His power was around 1,500 when he first arrived on Namek, and was over 10,000 after Guru released his hidden potential.

During his battles with the Ginyu Force and Frieza, Gohan’s power increased dramatically! With Zenkai boosts from being healed with a Senzu Bean and Dende’s healing power along with his fits of rage; Gohan’s strength skyrocketed into the millions. This was proven when he had 2nd and 3rd form Frieza on the ropes!

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With that being said, Guru brought Gohan’s hidden potential to the surface that he possessed at that point in time. This created Gohan’s new “base form” so to speak.

Old Kai practically did the same thing with Ultimate Gohan being Gohan’s “base form.” Gohan could further raise his “new base form” with his Super Saiyan transformations if he needed to…like he could and should have done against the likes of Buu, Beerus and the newly revived Frieza.

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Remember what Old Kai said to Goku prior to him going to earth to use the Potara Earrings with Gohan (but instead used them with Vegeta)?

He told Goku NOT to fuse as a Super Saiyan because that form is not natural and causes a strain on the body. This would shorten the fused being’s life if he were created through a Super Saiyan fusion. Old Kai further states that due to the Potara Fusion being so powerful, going Super Saiyan could be done AFTER fusing but it would most likely NOT be necessary.

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Compare this to what he told Gohan about unleashing his new power; Old Kai said to “do that Super Saiyan thing that you always do.” Old Kai always seemed to use double-talk or give a double meaning behind his dialogue. He most likely was saying that Ultimate Gohan’s power would be sufficient against any opponent and going Super Saiyan is something that could be done but would most likely not be necessary.

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This makes a lot of sense now that I think about it, and it could indeed prove that Ultimate Gohan was practically base Gohan with a new power and attitude! His Super Saiyan transformations were practically a bonus but not a necessity due to Old Kai being confident about his ritual and other power up methods that the ways of a temporary power up like a Super Saiyan would not be needed at all.

Not to mention Ultimate Gohan does not have to suffer from physical strain or substantial Ki drain as he would have through Super Saiyan transformations (unless you exclude Full Power Super Saiyan, but even then the form is not something that would last forever like a base form would because it is not natural).

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For the most part he was right because Ultimate Gohan beat down Super Buu (prior to becoming Buutenks). Furthermore, Vegito was able to take down Buuhan will little effort in his base form (anime only).

If you ask me, the question about Ultimate Gohan going Super Saiyan is very similar to Goku and Vegeta going Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 1, 2 and 3.

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Saiyan beyond God is a “base form” taken on by a Saiyan that had absorbed the power of a Super Saiyan God. This essentially means that Saiyan beyond God Goku is just as powerful as Super Saiyan God Goku, but without the time limit that the Super Saiyan God form suffers from.

This mirrors Ulimate Gohan being on par it not more powerful than a Super Saiyan 3, but without the Ki drawbacks that the form possesses.

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A Saiyan beyond God and Ultimate Gohan can essentially raise their power through Super Saiyan transformations, but the question remains if a Super Saiyan Ultimate Gohan is 50 times more powerful than Ultimate Gohan or a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is 50 times more powerful than a Saiyan beyond God due to that “base form” practically being the same power as a Super Saiyan God.

Until we get the official power rating from Akira himself, I doubt that this subject will ever have a decisive answer. However, it is always fun to speculate about it. Although it gives me a massive headache just thinking about it, but this blog had to be written.

Overall, this was a topic that I had never thought about until I read some new sources regarding Revival of F. In GT, I was thinking that Ultimate Gohan was no more due to lack of training or the writers not including him in the series. Gohan instead would go Super Saiyan 2 in all of his battles.

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Despite Ultimate Gohan being able to increase his power through Super Saiyan transformations, Akira practically ignored this in Goku’s favor so that he could be the hero. Again, it goes back to Super Saiyan 1 or 2 Ultimate Gohan being able to take down almost any foe, and that would have made it difficult to write an opponent powerful enough to take him down.

What do you think about this theory? Could Ultimate Gohan truly go Super Saiyan 1 and 2? If so, how powerful would he have really been?

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

Dragon Ball Super: When Will The Series Take Place?

By Jeremy Carden

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With all of the leaked information about the new series, fans are very confused about when the series will take place. Originally, it was believed that Dragon Ball Super would take place after the events of Revival of Frieza.

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However, with recent pictures and chapters from the DB Super manga, it appears that this is not the case. Fans are even speculating that DB Super will erase Battle of Gods and Revival of Frieza off of the map due to an inconsistency involving Beerus and his premonition of a Super Saiyan God!

Again, this is all speculation, and this blog is going to cover my own personal thoughts as to when this series will take place. Not only that, I will mention my own opinions on where the series will go. We do know that it is going to be at least 100 episodes, and possibly more depending on how well it is received by fans.

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Overall, I feel that this series will recap the events that occurred between the defeat of Kid Buu and the movie Battle of Gods. From there, it will cover the events between Battle of Gods and Revival of Frieza.

Afterwards, it will cover the events between Revival of Frieza and Goku leaving the 28th World Tournament with Uub.

What I would love to see is the series going even beyond that like GT did!

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Something that could really throw things into perspective is the special released in Japan called “Yo! Son Goku and his friends return!” This is the anime special that introduced us to Vegeta’s brother named Tarble.

Here is what the time frame between Kid Buu’s death and Uub leaving with Goku looks like based on the original dates given in the Japanese version:

  • The short film about Tarble took place 2 years after the defeat of Kid Buu
  • Battle of Gods took place 2 years after “Yo! Son Goku”
  • Revival of Frieza occurred 1 year after Battle of Gods

This means that there are still 5 years for the writers to play around with before the anime episode called “Granddaughter Pan.” In this episode, we see the series fast forward 10 years from the death of Kid Buu.

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In the end, the biggest question raised by fans is whether or not the ending of DB Super will stay true to the original ending of DBZ. Goku leaving with Uub occurs 10 years after the defeat of Kid Buu.

Let’s say that DB Super, Revival of F and Battle of Gods fit into the continuity of events that leads up to Goku vs. Uub. Re-watching that fight, it is amazing to believe that young Uub is holding his own with Goku (who by that time had achieved Super Saiyan God, Saiyan beyond God, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and possibly even more power!)!

However, keep in mind that Goku was clearly holding back in that fight in order to test Uub’s abilities.

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Not to mention that similar to Tien’s Neo-Tri Beam against Semi-Perfect Cell, he was putting up an impressive feat by holding back Cell, but that was all he was doing. He wasn’t damaging Cell, but he was holding him off from absorbing #18.

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I think the same can be said about Uub during his fight with Goku because the Majin-turned-human was putting up a good fight, but it was clear that the only damage he inflicted on Goku was on his clothes!

Well, at the beginning of the fight he did make Goku’s arm tingle with a fierce kick. However, Goku underestimated Uub’s power, and remember Whis told him that letting his guard down makes even a body as powerful as his susceptible to damage from weaker opponents.

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Sorbet’s Ring Laser proved that point to be true when he pierced Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku’s heart!

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I actually think that Goku leaving with Uub would be even more touching since Whis (the Supreme Being) in Universe 7 ended up training a low-class Saiyan to become one of the best in the universe. This is like Goku sharing his skills with a young Indian boy from a poor village. The most unlikely people ended up learning from the best in the universe!

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However, I would still like DB Super to possibly continue even after Goku leaves with Uub so we can see what happens next!

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When you think about it, 5 years in DB time is not really that much. Keep in mind that the 3 years of training for the battle with the Androids was shown in a couple of episodes, but “skipped” in a single episode! Compare that to the “5 minutes” for Namek to explode, and that was stretched out for around a dozen episodes…

DB Super is going to be doing some obvious time jumps, but I think it will be worth it. I am one of those fans that love to see things being covered and explained instead of skipped over.

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Ever since I saw the picture of Gohan and Videl on their wedding day in Granddaughter Pan, I wanted to see those two being hitched! In the first episode of the new series, we learn that Goten is going to be looking for a gift because his brother’s wedding is happening soon.

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Based on Goku’s outfit while he is farming, I have a suspicion that Tarble will appear, and then we will jump to the events post-Battle of Gods. In the leaked manga chapter, we see Goku farming, Mr. Satan arriving with 100 million zeni for him, and Goku telling Goten that he wishes he could train with King Kai.

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In the Tarble special, Goku asks Chi-Chi why they have to farm despite the fact that Mr. Satan had given them a ton of money. His wife explains that despite the money, they should still work to earn their own form of financial stability. I find that interesting because it was Goku who fought to save the universe from Buu (along with help from his friends of course), and Mr. Satan was returning the favor because he thought Goku deserved something out of it!

Also in the special, Mr. Satan invites all of the Z-Fighters to his new hotel opening in honor of him defeating Buu. Here is where we reach a form of contradiction from the main series.

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Remember that 4 months after the defeat of Kid Buu, Goku had Shenron erase the memories of Majin Buu from the minds of earthlings so Good Buu (Fat Buu or Mr. Buu) could live a peaceful life on earth.

The only way I could see the world still worshiping Mr. Satan would be for them to praise and award him during the 4 months between Kid Buu’s death and their minds being erased. They must have had plans for the hotel along with the other awards for him, but after the mind wipe it seems clear that they gave it to him anyway (despite not knowing what threat they were saved from).

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Another thing to mention is the fact that Tarble was mentioned in Battle of Gods by Bulma. They were looking for a fifth Saiyan to help in the Super Saiyan God ritual, but they could not find one. Vegeta mentioned that his brother is in another star system, but he did not know which one.

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This most likely means we will indeed see everyone meeting Tarble in the first part of DB Super.

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Not to mention we see Goku training on King Kai’s Planet in the new trailer, and this was also seen at the beginning of Battle of Gods. My guess is Chi-Chi loosened the chain on Goku since Mr. Satan gave them all of that money, and he was allowed to do some training.

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Now let’s talk about Beerus’ premonition about the Super Saiyan God possibly erasing Battle of Gods and Revival of Frieza out of the picture. Above is a photo from Chapter 1 of the DB Super manga, and it has driven fans insane!

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Beerus is on some alien planet, and he is having a feast. After revealing that he knew the inhabitants had poisoned his food (with no effect on him at all), he blew up their planet. He then talks to Whis about his dream about an opponent that would entertain him known as a Super Saiyan God.

Apparently, Beerus had just awoken from his 39 year slumber and was still a bit tired. Whis then suggests they go to their home world so he can remember his dream better.

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I thought that the Oracle Fish would be the key to the timeline. Why? Remember according to Beerus, it was the fish that told him that a Super Saiyan God would appear to give him a good fight and rival his power. He said that he would appear in 39 years, and that was why Beerus woke up “early” from his slumber because of the premonition from the Oracle Fish.

Again, it depends on the translation from the dub and manga because the Oracle Fish’s prophecy differs. One says that the fish foretold of the Super Saiyan God, but the other says that his prophecy was only that an unnamed opponent that would eventually become a rival to Beerus would appear. Then it was during a dream Beerus had while sleeping for 39 years that revealed the identity of his rival; a Super Saiyan God.

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Originally, I thought this scene from the manga would be Beerus thinking about the prophecy the fish told him, he would sleep 39 years after Whis takes him home, and then he would reawaken during Battle of Gods.

However, seeing Old Kai and Kibito Kai in the last panel shot that theory apart…

Overall, it is inconsistent that Beerus apparently woke up earlier in DB Super than he did in Battle of Gods. I do not think that this one little thing will erase that movie and Revival of F from the continuity. It could be that Akira is simply changing things up a bit for something just a little different.

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I do find it interesting that in the beginning of Battle of Gods, when the Kais sense Beerus’ awakening, there is a wide shot of a distant galaxy, and what appears to be the remains of a destroyed planet.

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After that, we see that Old and Supreme Kai were watching the events unfold. Could those floating rocks in space be the remains of the alien world that Beerus destroyed in the DB Super manga, or were they simply just asteroids floating in space?

Just something interesting to think about…

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Finally, I will simply talk about what I think will happen in the series. It has been revealed that a new character named Champa and a female-looking version of Whis will appear on Beerus’ planet.

Apparently he is also a God of Destruction, and he could be from one of the 11 other universes in the DB world.

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When he appears in DB Super has not yet been revealed, but my guess is either before Battle of Gods or after Revival of Frieza.

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I think it would be interesting for the series to allow us to see some of the 11 other universes. Considering Goku and Vegeta’s power is growing at an impressive rate, it seems clear that they may soon surpass Beerus with their individual power.

Not sure how long it would take for them to ever pass Whis, but at some point I think that they will. Regardless as to whether it is through them working together or fusing. Since the series is set to be 100 episodes (and maybe more), I have no doubt that other gods from the other universes will appear! Beerus even said in Battle of Gods that some of those universes spawned beings that were more powerful than he and Whis.

We all know that Goku thrives for fighting more powerful opponents, and Vegeta will not allow himself to be outdone by that low-level clown!

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Could DB Super be similar to the web comic DB Multiverse, and we will see a huge tournament between other DB universes?

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Either way, I think that the series has a lot of potential, and I am looking forward to it. I really hope that it is not like GT because I want all of the characters to shine in DB Super! GT was pretty much “Goku Time” and made everyone else weak.

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In DB Super, fans fear that with opponents like gods and other powerful beings, Goku and Vegeta will be the ONLY ones who have a chance to oppose them.

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This means that everyone else in the show like Super Gotenks, Piccolo and Ultimate Gohan would not stand a chance. Given their performance in Revival of Frieza (minus Gotenks)…this might be the case.

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I want to see a teenage/adult Gotenks, Piccolo reaching a new level of power, and Gohan not being written to be a weakling when he is one of the most powerful beings in the universe!

There are so many twists and turns that this new series can travel down, but I will remain a fan and view it! I do not want to be one of those fans who give the series a thumbs down before it even airs because I want this to be great. The main reason for the series being revived is because of its popularity that is being kept alive by the fans.

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With that being said, what do you think about this theory? How far will DB Super go? Will it continue up until the end of DBZ when Goku leaves with Uub? Will this erase the final 3 episodes of DBZ completely, and create something new? Do you think we will see the other 11 universes?

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

Dragon Ball Z: Did Whis Create Kid Buu?

By Jeremy Carden

I have been puzzled by this question ever since I watched Battle of Gods, and read an article about an interview with Akira Toriyama regarding Majin Buu’s origins.

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When asked about Buu’s origins, Akira said this:

“Though in the manga Kaiōshin said that Bibidi made him, the truth is that one called “Buu” was not actually created by Bididi, but has existed since time immemorial. He cycled between rampages and long hibernation. During numerous iterations of this cycle, he absorbed the evil elements of mankind, becoming steadily more violent. Bibidi merely knew the means of calling Buu from out of his long slumber. Since the current Buu is a slightly different life-form due to the changes brought about when the evil Buu was expelled, it’s not known whether he’ll still go into long hibernation.”

I was surprised by this information because it adds an entirely new dimension on how Buu came to be the Majin that fans know best.

Now, it is time to get down to the theory itself on how Kid Buu might be connected to Whis.

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Originally, I thought that Whis was the God of Creation because Beerus was the God of Destruction.

However, this was not the case because Akira actually stated that it was the Supreme Kais who were responsible for the creation of planets, and Beerus was the being responsible for the destruction of planets and star systems.

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King Kai told Goku that both forms of life are needed in the universe in order to maintain balance.

Alright, so it has been established that the Supreme Kais and Beerus are more or less responsible for different roles in the universe to balance things out, and Whis is pretty much the supreme being above all else in Universe 7 (the universe that we know of from DBZ).

What does this have to do with Kid Buu?

Based on Akira’s origins for the character, Buu seemed to have come out of nothingness. You might compare Buu to the Big Bang Theory, and how the universe came from an incredible explosion that seemed to have come from nowhere. However, something had to have triggered that big bang, and I am thinking that the same could have been true about Buu’s existence.

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My theory is that Whis created Kid Buu BEFORE the role (or job) of “God of Destruction” was a position that existed in Universe 7.

Buu does not have a date in which he came into existence, and it was mentioned that he has existed since time immemorial. This means that Buu is so old that it is almost generally accepted (or hinted at by Akira) that Buu has existed since the dawn of time.

Let’s say that Whis created Buu, but where did the Kais come from?

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Akira said this when asked about how one becomes a Supreme Kai (supposedly the highest status in the universe):

“No one can. Kaiōshin are born as Kaiōshin. There are three of them, and they work in shifts. Though there are two of them on duty now, if one of the Kaiōshin were to die in an accident, then the currently-inactive Kaiōshin would grow in the Kaiōshin Realm like a plant. If there aren’t any accidents, then it’s said their life spans are about 75,000 years.”

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Considering the life of a Supreme Kai is around 75,000 years, it could mean that Buu was pretty much close to being an immortal because there was only 1 of him.

However, it also makes sense that there would be multiple overseers of the universe because of different quadrants. That is where East, North, West and South Kai come into play.

Think of it like this:

The Supreme Kais are the Gods of Creation and oversee both the living and other world. The lower Kais (King Kai and his 3 counterparts) guard and oversee the living world.

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Does it seem fair that there is only one being on destruction (Buu), but there are multiple Kais who have the ability to make worlds?

Something tells me that 1 creature of destruction was enough, and the Kais probably were not making planets just for the sake of making them. I am sure that Whis might have had some word in how much could be created, or felt that Buu was more than enough to keep the planet total in check.

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Anyway, I think the most interesting part of Akira’s description of Buu was the concept of Buu not being the evil maniac that we saw in DBZ.

He describes Buu as cycling between rampages and long hibernation. During numerous iterations of this cycle, he absorbed the evil elements of mankind, becoming steadily more violent.

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This sounds very similar to the origins of the Original Nameless Namek! Remember that he arrived on earth due to the storms on Namek that were on the verge of destroying the entire planet. However, the storms ended after the Namek was sent to earth. He waited years and years for his people to follow him, but they never came. During his time on earth, he watched the evilness of mankind and slowly began to adapt those traits in his personality.

From there, the Namek eventually had to surrender the evilness in his heart (that was “born” through his interactions and visuals of mankind) in order to become Guardian of the Earth.

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That was how Kami became the good-hearted overseer of Earth, and the pure evil King Piccolo came into existence.

Again, this goes back to Buu’s origins! He was a being that seemed to be created for nothing more than destruction that resulted from his rampages.

Similar to the Nameless Namek, it seems that during his rampages, Buu picked up characteristics from mankind (apparently the worst traits); sadistic, murderous, insane and other negative aspects of the living.

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Not to mention that like the Namek, Buu eventually split into a good and an evil half.

I will touch on this more when we eventually get to Buu coming into contact with the wizard Bibidi.

It appears that Buu was a being that helped to keep the balance between creation and destruction in check. This sounds very similar to the role of “God of Destruction.” After those long rampages, he would go into his ball for a long duration of hibernation.

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This mirrors the pattern of Beerus because he destroys planets as a way of making sure that there is balance in the universe, but then goes into long periods of hibernation. Whis is there to keep Beerus in check, and appears to keep the purple kitty from needless acts of destruction.

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Now we will throw Bibidi into the equation! Originally, it was believed that this midget wizard was the one responsible for creating Buu. On the contrary, Bibidi knew of the spell that could release Buu from his ball during his hibernation cycle to recharge his batteries so to speak.

From there, he turned Kid Buu into Majin Buu. The pink powerhouse was no longer a natural universal tool for balance. He was now a minion for an insane wizard. It is true that Bibidi did not have full control over Buu, but he was using him for his own means.

Galactic domination was the goal of Bibidi, and with Buu’s power at his disposal; he could have achieved what he was trying to obtain.

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First off, the Supreme Kais were on his hit list. We all know the story of how Buu killed the North and West Supreme Kais.

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After that, Buu absorbed South Kai and the Grand Supreme Kai. This resulted in Kid Buu becoming the Buff and the Fat Majin Buu that we saw when he was released from his ball during the Majin Buu Saga.

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We also know that the Eastern Supreme Kai eventually became the Supreme Kai that oversaw the entire universe.

It is not mentioned when the “lower Kais” were born, but I wager that those Kais (King Kai-level Kais) came into existence after Buu absorbed and killed the Supreme Kais.

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That seems to make the most sense considering that Supreme Kai would have been the only Kai alive to do the job. King Kai and his 3 other counterparts could have been born to oversee the lower realm to assist Supreme Kai. They may have also assisted with planet creation as well.

Of course, this is just my own personal speculation of it all, but it interesting anyway you look at it.

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Let’s backtrack to when Old Kai was trapped inside of the Z-Sword because I think it adds another interesting piece to the possible connection between Buu and Beerus.

Akira said this about Old Kai:

“The Kaiōshin (who create planets) and the Gods of Destruction (who destroy them) have never gotten along that well, but once every 1,000 years they go to each other’s realms and hold a coordination meeting. At this time, they got into an argument over some trifling thing, and a certain short-tempered God of Destruction sealed Elder Kaiōshin away inside a sword. Naturally, it wouldn’t have been proper for him to destroy the Kaiōshin Realm itself. By the way, that God of Destruction was Beerus.”

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When he was released from the sword, Old Kai mentioned that there was a terrible villain that trapped him inside of the sword. This being was jealous of his awesome magical capabilities, and he tricked Old Kai!

The dialogue that caught my attention was that “this villain” was not as terrible as Majin Buu, but still pretty bad!

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As mentioned above, this “villain” who trapped Old Kai in the Z-Sword was none other than Beerus!

Old Kai’s statement could imply 1 of 2 things:

  1. Beerus was not as terrible as Majin Buu because at that point in time, Beerus may have not been as powerful as Kid Buu.
  2. Beerus was not as terrible as Majin Buu because he was not an insane destroyer. He had some reasoning and sense of right/wrong. Though he has short tempter, and will destroy a solar system when angered, Old Kai might not have seen Beerus in the same realm of “evil” as Buu.

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Wait, how could the God of Destruction potentially be weaker than Kid Buu?

Considering that Buu was possibly in existence since the beginning of time, it makes sense that Old Kai during his time (15 generations ago when compared to the Eastern Supreme Kai-turned Supreme Kai) knew of the terrible evil menace rampaging around the universe.

We do not know the origins of Beerus, but I do not think he was always the all-powerful being that we saw in Battle of Gods. Keep in mind that I think he was selected by Whis to become the God of Destruction, but during his initial acceptance of the job, he may not have been all that powerful.

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Maybe there is some kind of ritual that takes place that allows one to become a God of Destruction just like there is a ritual for a Super Saiyan God to appear.

After Beerus became a god, Whis became his fighting instructor and overseer. He might have taught him in the ways of combat, but Whis was still unable to teach Beerus to control that temper and sense of entitlement.

Similar to Ying and Yang, it makes sense that the Gods of Creation and the God of Destruction would not get along. I wonder what kind of argument caused Old Kai to be trapped in the Z-Sword.

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Depending on what dub you watched, Beerus destroyed King Kai’s once huge planet due to losing a video game or playing hide-and-seek. That was why King Kai’s planet was so small when we first saw it in the Saiyan Saga.

With that being said, I am sure that Beerus got enraged over nothing. That was how the Old Kai was trapped. Old Kai said that he was 15 generations before Supreme Kai. Considering that each Supreme Kai has a lifespan of about 75,000 years that means that Old Kai was possibly trapped in the sword around 1,125,000 years before he was released! I got that number by simply multiplying 15 times 75,000.

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In terms of power, we know that Kid Buu is on par with a Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

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At the beginning of Battle of Gods, Beerus defeated Super Saiyan 3 Goku with a pluck to the forehead and a karate chop to the neck.

I think that it goes without saying that Beerus is in an entirely different realm of power than Kid Buu!

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It all goes back on how you interpret the Old Kai’s statement of Beerus being less terrible than Buu. Whether it was in regards to his power or temperament is all based on perspective. This is very similar to the fan interpretation of Old Kai comparing the Fusion Dance to the Potara Earrings.

Maybe Beerus was powerful, but not Kid Buu-level in terms of strength during the time when he trapped Old Kai in the Z-Sword?

Again, that is left to speculation…

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In any case, I think this theory can be summed up by Bibidi’s spell over Buu. I think that if Whis was truly the one who created Buu, he did so with the intention of Buu hibernating.

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Do you really think that Whis would create a being that would rampage endlessly throughout the universe without giving it an off switch? I don’t think that he would, and that is why I think Whis created Buu with his batteries needing to be recharged through hibernation in his ball.

Considering that Beerus isn’t immortal because Whis offered Goku the position of God of Destruction after Beerus eventually died, I think it is safe to say that Buu existed before Beerus.

Another possible scenario is that Buu and Beerus had hibernation cycles that occurred at different times. Perhaps Beerus would be sleeping while Buu was rampaging, and vice versa.

The flaw in that theory would be an endless cycle of destruction that would occur because of 2 powerful beings…

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Not to mention that Beerus considered 39 years of sleeping as nothing more than a catnap. I think Buu’s hibernation cycles were extremely longer than that. However, when Bibidi (and later Babidi) got Buu under one of his spells, Buu would not hibernate for long. He was sealed up whenever Bibidi felt that Buu was slipping out of control or when he needed to rest.

Perhaps Whis felt that as long as Buu was destroying planets (even while under a wizard’s control) that it was helping to keep balance.

I know that makes Whis sound kind of like an uncaring parent, but really these “gods” aren’t exactly as all-knowing as their job descriptions may have you believe…

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That could be why Whis actually trained Beerus (and possibly the other Gods of Destruction before him), and kept watch over him instead of letting him rampage across the universe like Buu.

One might assume that Whis saw the results of leaving a being of powerful destructive capabilities (Buu) unchecked could result in terrible results. I mean Buu literally wiped out the Kais, and that pretty much ruined some of the universal balance.

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You are probably wondering why Whis did not recognize “his creation” during Battle of Gods when he was hogging the pudding cups.

Remember that Old Kai was sealed in the sword by Beerus prior to Kid Buu becoming Fat Buu. It could be that after Beerus (or whoever the first God of Destruction was) entered the god-ranking as the being of destruction, Whis left Buu to his own means.

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He probably figured Buu was on a ranking like King Kai and his other counterparts, and Beerus was now on the level of Supreme Kai(s). Both races were in check of creation and destruction with lower beings to assist with their job.

From there, Whis was not aware that Kid Buu had evolved into Fat Buu, and that was why he took notice of “that pink gentleman” instead of calling him Majin Buu.

Regardless as to whether or not my theory is true, I think that it is a very interesting topic to think about.

Also, here is a link to the interview with Akira Toriyama: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/saikyo-jump-june-2014-issue-twel-buu-mysteries/.

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What do you think about this theory? Was Buu created by Whis before the position of God of Destruction was introduced, or did he “naturally” come into the existence from the universe itself? Was Buu at one point in time more powerful than Beerus?

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

Dragon Ball Z: Is Super Saiyan 3 Goku More Powerful Than Ultimate Gohan?

By Jeremy Carden

There is a battle that has caused a lot of tension within the fan base of the Dragon Ball series. I have seen many blogs and videos about this particular subject. Fans have debated about Gogeta vs. Vegito, Kid Buu vs. Super Buu (Ultimate Gohan absorbed) and Goku vs. Superman.

However, the topic of this blog will focus on the ultimate battle between Goku and Gohan.

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While reading this blog, please remember that I will be discussing Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Ultimate Gohan (also called Mystic Gohan by some fans) from the Majin Buu Saga.

This blog will not include anything between the time of Kid Buu’s death and the ending of DBZ when Goku leaves with Uub.

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That means nothing about Super Saiyan God or Dragon Ball GT will be included in this blog.

Let’s get this battle started! As with most of my “Who would win?” blogs, I will start this one by expressing my thoughts right off the bat. I feel that in terms of power alone; Gohan is the winner.

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Does that mean he would win? Yes…and no. Just because Gohan is more powerful than Goku does not mean that he would win.

At this point, some readers are probably shaking their heads at my belief that Ultimate Gohan is more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

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Before I go any further, I just want to say that this blog is based on my own personal opinion. If you feel that Goku is more powerful than Gohan then you are entitled to your opinion. From this point on in the blog, I will attempt to use facts from the manga AND anime in order to get my point across. I would love to hear your thoughts in the comments below after finishing this blog, and you can tell me if I have persuaded you that Gohan is more powerful.

Believe it or not, when it comes down to determining which warrior is more powerful; you have to examine which form of Majin Buu is more powerful. The 2 Buus that I am talking about are Super Buu and Kid Buu.

The reason that I picked out these forms of Buu is because they are the Buus that Goku and Gohan battled the hardest against.

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If you have ever read my very first DBZ blog about which form of Buu is the most powerful, then you know that I feel that Super Buu (Ultimate Gohan absorbed) is the strongest, and Kid Buu is far from #1.

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In any case, we know that Kid Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Goku are more or less equals. It was mentioned that if Goku had started off the fight at 100%, and did not hold back so that Vegeta would have a chance to fight; he could have killed Kid Buu.

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He mentioned the same about his battle with Fat Buu, but in that case he was not holding back for Vegeta’s sake. In that fight, he was holding back in order for Gohan, Goten and Trunks to have a shot at fighting for the planet. However, unlike the battle with Kid Buu, it was clear that he was holding back (a lot) during his fight with Fat Buu. He did not battle to the point of exhausted as he did against Kid Buu.

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When talking about two fighters who were more or less equals, Super Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks seem to fit that category very nicely. Gotenks was playing around with Buu during their fight, and it was literally a back and forth conflict. Each fighter was able to take a blow, and dish one back out to their opponent! You could argue that Buu was holding back because he was waiting for Gohan to arrive, but it is clear he and Gotenks were on the same plateau of power.

It was Buu’s regeneration powers and endurance that kept the young Super Saiyan 3 from putting him down for the count. However, when Gotenks was about to kill Buu for good, his power ran out and his Fusion ended.

Alright, so we know that Goku and Gotenks had the power to completely annihilate the pink menace that they battled against. They just held back for different reasons; Goku for his respect of Vegeta’s pride, and Gotenks’ cocky nature.

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This leads us to Goku’s comment to Vegeta before they escaped from Super Buu’s head. He mentioned that neither of them could survive if Buu fought them after leaving his body. Fusion was the only way that he and Vegeta would stand a chance.

Goku was literally saying that he was NOT powerful enough to destroy Super Buu if they had to battle him!

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Remember that Ultimate Gohan mopped the floor with Super Buu. He did not even use ki attacks against the pink titan, he was using nothing but melee attacks to push Buu into a corner.

This leads to another point about how powerful Buu became after absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo. We have established that Gohan is more powerful than Super Buu, and this means he is clearly more powerful than Gotenks.

He took Buu apart without much effort, but Gotenks was literally kept on his toes by Buu’s power. So, after absorbing Gotenks, we can assume that Buu’s power pretty much doubled in power.

I think we can conclude that Buu’s absorption technique is a power-up that takes the person(s) absorbed, and adds their power to Buu’s.

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With that being said, “Buutenks” had a power that was over double what it was before. Keep in mind that Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks were pretty much even, and he took Piccolo’s power too (though the Namek’s absorption was more about adding his intelligence to Buu rather than his overall power).

In the anime, Gohan and Buu were on par with each other. It was not until Buu starting using “the Piccolo in him” to chip away at Gohan’s confidence, and that led to him being completely overpowered.

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Unlike the anime, the manga portrayal of Buutenks vs. Gohan was showing Buu’s power to be something that Gohan stood absolutely no chance against.

It appears that Gohan was indeed superior to Buu and Gotenks, but less than twice their power. I would say that he was probably somewhere between 1.2-1.5 times more powerful than Super Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.

Where does this leave Goku?

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Another blog that I wrote awhile back was concerning the subject of Super Gotenks’ power compared to Goku’s. In that blog, I talked about my thoughts on how even a Super Saiyan 1 Gotenks had power that was superior to Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

Why would I say that?

Remember that Goku originally declined killing the Fat Buu because he wanted the boys to save the world instead of relying on him (since he was dead, Goku did not feel it was his right to step in as a savior to the planet).

He taught the boys the Fusion Dance, and felt that it would be the ONLY way of defeating Buu. Trunks asked why he did not teach them Super Saiyan 3 because if he and Goten teamed up at that level then they would beat Buu for sure. However, Goku told them that Fusion was the ONLY way.

After seeing how sad they were, he showed them Super Saiyan 3 before leaving with Baba. In my opinion, I feel that Goku thought that Goten and Trunks fused as Super Saiyans would be enough to defeat Buu (without the need for a Super Saiyan 3 transformation). Goku knew that level 3 was something not meant to be used in the living world due to the rapid ki depletion that it causes for the user outside of other world.

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Considering that he had just fought Buu himself at Super Saiyan 3, I think that Goku knew for a fact that a Super Saiyan 1 Fusion would be enough to kill Buu. This means that it is safe to conclude that Super Saiyan Gotenks (pre-Time Chamber) was in the same realm of power as Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

Let’s take things a step further in order to analyze just how powerful Gotenks was. After training in the Time Chamber for 30 minutes on the outside world before Super Buu lost his patience (which equals just about 7 and a half days inside of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber), Gotenks’ power was said to have increased dramatically.

I think that if there was a gap between pre-Time Chamber Super Saiyan Gotenks and Super Saiyan 3 Goku; that gap was closed after the children’s 7.5 days of training.

I dare say that Gotenks may have become even more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. By how much was never determined, but for the sake of simplicity (without downplaying either of their power levels), let’s say that Super Saiyan 1 Gotenks and Super Saiyan 3 Goku were even.

Going Super Saiyan 2 doubles the power of a Super Saiyan 1, and going Super Saiyan 3 multiples the power of a Super Saiyan 2 by four.

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Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks (at minimum) is 8 times more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

Ultimate Gohan is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks (who is more or less on the same playing field as Super Buu), but not twice as powerful.

Overall, Goku is not as powerful as Gotenks and Gohan. However, his original goal of having the boys measure up to their destinies as the protectors of the planet was realized. His intention was making them even more powerful than he was in order to save the earth from Buu.

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This same goal was similar to Goku’s plans of having Gohan exceed his power to save the world from Cell.

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Not to mention that Piccolo’s goal during the Saiyan Saga was training Gohan to become more powerful than him as well!

In any case, I think I have spelled out why I feel that Ultimate Gohan’s power is clearly superior to his father’s even at Super Saiyan 3.

Considering that Gohan is more powerful than his dad, you are probably wondering whether or not Gohan would be named as the winner before the battle even began.

I say that despite being more powerful, Gohan would not easily win the battle. This is mainly due to Goku being the superior fighter.

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Looking back at the DBZ series, I feel that Gohan’s power and combat skills were at their peak during the Cell Games.

True, Old Kai unlocked ALL of his hidden powers, but that would not unlock his combat skills and fighting instincts.

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Vegeta mentioned that Gohan’s power was a lot higher as a child, and this was when he witnessed Gohan power up to show Kibito the Super Saiyan 2 level.

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While watching his son fight with Dabura, Goku even brings up the fact that Gohan’s fighting sense was lost during his 7 years of no training.

After the battle with Cell, Gohan pretty much neglected his training in favor of studying. The end result was that his 11-year-old persona was more powerful both in strength and in fighting abilities.

Compare this to Goku, he trained for 7 years straight against warriors from across space and time during his stay on the Grand Kai’s planet.

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Before he slacked off in his training, Gohan knew everything that his father had to teach him. Their training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber allowed Gohan to pick up on his father’s technique and surpass his power.

If Ultimate Gohan fought against Super Saiyan 3 Goku, I’d say that Goku would be able to not only predict what Gohan would do next, but outsmart him as well during combat. Goku taught Gohan nearly everything that he knows about fighting.

Piccolo was the only other person to train Gohan. Krillin and Gohan did “mind training” on their trip to Namek, but we know that his father and “Big Green Uncle” were his primary instructors.

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Keep in mind that Goku spent 3 years training alongside Gohan and Piccolo. This means that he has seen everything that Gohan knows about fighting and enhanced his son’s skills in the Time Chamber.

Again, Gohan is more powerful, but Goku has been able to hold his own against more powerful opponents in the past.

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It has also been shown many times that if Goku is backed into a corner, he is capable of reaching incredible new levels of power.

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Of course, we know that Gohan does the same, and that goes to show he is indeed the son of Goku.

Aside from strength, Gohan has one huge advantage over Super Saiyan 3 Goku that has not yet been mentioned. Gohan’s power would not deplete as quickly as Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

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Remember that Goku admitted to Vegeta that even though he can go Super Saiyan 3; he can only hold the form for a short amount of time.

For fans who say that Super Saiyan 3 Goku is more powerful than Ultimate Gohan, I ask you this one question: Could Goku defeat his son before his Super Saiyan 3 power depletes?

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With a well placed Warp Kamehameha, I think that he could deal some heavy damage. Either way, I think this would be a tough battle.

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Super Saiyan Goku was holding his own so against Ultimate Gohan…well it was Buu’s thought form of Ultimate Gohan. Not to mention it was a filler scene, but I wanted to mention this because I know someone would say something about it in the comment section.

Something to remember about this fight was that Goku was getting exhausted, but Gohan was a thought form meaning that he could not be damaged or weakened so their battle is not really something to be used as solid evidence for this subject.

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Ultimate Gohan’s power is his maximum potential brought out to the surface, and it does not deplete his ki supply like a Super Saiyan 3 transformation would. Goku even says that Gohan’s power was higher than it was ever was even when his son was a Super Saiyan.

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The one moment that we could have and should have seen these 2 fighting was right after Gohan powered up after Old Kai unlocked his potential.

Just as Goku showed Goten and Trunks how to go Super Saiyan 3 before going back to the land of the dead, I think he should have battled Gohan before his son returned to the land of the living.

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Would have been a great touch as to how Goku shows his love for his children in the best way that he knows how.

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Buutenks reverting back to Buuccolo was another moment in the anime and manga that differed. In the anime, Goku was at Super Saiyan 3, but was doing what he could just to keep up with Buu. Fans argue that he was stalling for Gohan to find the Potara Earring. In the manga, this “fight” never happened; Buutenks went to Buuccolo without fighting Goku.

However, for fans who think Goku was more powerful than Buutenks: why would Goku want or need to permanently fuse with Ultimate Gohan…if he had the power to do it solo?

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In the manga and anime, Goku states that Gohan could defeat Buuccolo all by himself. The way he says that does seem to imply that Goku was disappointed in Buu’s drastic drop in power. I mean Goku was in a tense situation because he was desperate to fuse with Gohan, but now he was in a position where fusion was not needed because Gohan could win alone.

Really it is all up to personal interpretation about how Goku said what he said about Gohan beating Buu. I will admit that it does seem like Goku is saying that he could take Buu himself, but really I just do not think that this is the case.

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One last piece of evidence that fans like to bring up is the fact that Goku’s Ki was sensed from the Sacred Land of the Kais from Earth.

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However, when Gohan unleashed his new power, Buu was the ONLY person in the lower realm (Earth) to take notice of his power.

I think that ki sensing somehow works in reverse when it comes to comparing the lower realm (land of the living) and the other world (land of the dead).

On Supreme Kai’s planet, it makes sense that they could sense an extremely high power level from earth. However, it also makes sense that an extremely high power from the Kai planet could not be sensed from earth.

Remember that in the anime, Goku mentioned that Kid Buu was using Instant Transmission. That was how he found other planets with high ki readings during his hunt for Goku and Vegeta.

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In the manga, it was mentioned that he was using the “Kai Kai” or Instantaneous Moment used by Kibito Kai. This is a teleporting technique that does not require a ki signature for the user to transport to. This explains how in the manga, Kid Buu regenerated from his Planet Burst move on earth, and then went instantly to Supreme Kai’s planet to fight the Saiyans.

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Compared to the anime, Kid Buu sensed Goku and Vegeta when they raised their power levels to draw Buu to their location. He was on Grand Kai’s planet during that moment, and it made sense that he could track their powers since he was in the other world just as they were.

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What does this have to do with Buu sensing Gohan’s power from earth? Well Super Buu is an interesting being because he detected Gohan’s power, but Piccolo nor the boys (Goten and Trunks) were able to sense it. Perhaps it is because he is a powerful being that he could track a power that a Namek could not? Either way, it could be because Gohan was in the middle of a magical ceremony that his power was more “contained” when he unleashed it when compared to a Super Saiyan transformation.

I mean Gohan was on the verge of damaging the Kai planet by powering up, and Goku was on the verge of ripping apart the earth. The main difference was that Goku was not using Super Saiyan 3 for the first time, and he was “putting on a show” in order to stall for Trunks to find the Dragon Radar.

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We later saw that he could go Super Saiyan 3 in an instant as he did against Buutenks.

Gohan was doing the “Super Saiyan thing” as Old Kai put it in order to unleash his true power. So, I can see why the lower realm would have a difficult time tracking a high ki signature from the land of the dead.

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How else can you explain no one on earth sensing Goku’s power when he first unlocked Super Saiyan 3 during his time on Grand Kai’s planet?

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In the end, I think that Gohan has the power to win, but Goku has the skill to stay alive until he finds a weakness in Gohan’s defenses in order to land some powerful hits.

What do you think about this? Do you feel that Gohan’s power is superior, or does Super Saiyan 3 Goku have the power to surpass his son?

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

Dragon Ball Super: Is Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan More Powerful Than Super Saiyan 4?

By Jeremy Carden

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Since Battle of Gods, DBZ fans have been debating about Super Saiyan 4 vs. Super Saiyan God.

With the new Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan transformation revealed, the debated has sparked even more controversy. Despite the ongoing debate between fans, there has been no clear definitive answer as to which form is superior.

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Most fans are quick to say that it does not matter how powerful Super Saiyan 4 is because GT is not canon. Not to mention with Dragon Ball Super on the horizon, it is set to “erase” GT from existence. I will get into my thoughts on that in another blog, but for now the focus will be on which Super Saiyan transformation is superior.

It has never been fully established how powerful these new forms are when compared to the standard Super Saiyan forms. Which forms am I referring to?

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These 3 below:

  • Super Saiyan God
  • Saiyan beyond God
  • Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan

Here is what we do know about the standard Super Saiyan forms:

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  • Super Saiyan 1 is 50 times more powerful than base form
  • Super Saiyan 2 is twice the power of a Super Saiyan (100 times base form)
  • Super Saiyan 3 is four times more powerful than Super Saiyan 2 (400 times base form)
  • Super Saiyan 4 is ten times more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 (4000 times base form)

The missing factor in all of this involves how much more powerful Super Saiyan God is when compared to Super Saiyan 3.

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We know that Beerus took out Super Saiyan 3 Goku with a simple flick to the forehead, and a well placed karate chop to a pressure point on Goku’s neck.

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However, Beerus tried this same karate chop on Super Saiyan God Goku, but it failed to work! This shows us that Goku’s power has increased to astounding new heights!

It was one of those blink-and-you-miss moments during the beginning of their battle.

In the end, 70% Beerus was able to defeat 80% Super Saiyan God Goku; remember that Goku never fought at 100% with his new power.

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Saiyan beyond God is a “form” that Goku and Vegeta reach after the events of Battle of Gods, and during their time as students under Whis.

A Saiyan prodigy who transforms into Super Saiyan God will revert back to base form after the Super Saiyan God form time limit runs out. However, they will absorb the power of the Super Saiyan God into their base form. This will result in the Saiyan becoming a Saiyan beyond God.

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It reminds me of Ultimate Gohan because in his “base form” he has far more power than he ever did as a Super Saiyan 1 or 2. The reason I say “base form” is because as Ultimate Gohan his outer appearance barely changes from his regular appearance.

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When it comes to Saiyan beyond God vs. the appearance of base Goku or Vegeta, the only change is the color of their aura. It becomes more of a milky white color when compared to their standard base form aura.

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When a Saiyan beyond God has access to the Super Saiyan transformation…they can become a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan!

It is unknown how much more powerful this makes a Saiyan beyond God, or how much more powerful this form is when compared to a Super Saiyan God.

Most fans are quick to assume that just like the standard Super Saiyan transformation; it increases a Saiyan’s power 50 times over the power of his base power. In this case, “base power” is considered Saiyan beyond God.

Wait, does that mean a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is 50 times the power of a Super Saiyan God?

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Saiyan beyond God is basically a Saiyan in base form that has mastered or absorbed the power of a Super Saiyan God into their body right?

Although it is not official, I can see why most fans would assume that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is superior to a Super Saiyan God by 50 times.

However, the Super Saiyan multiplier scale seems to conflict with Akira Toriyama’s own power scale for the gods.

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He stated his own personal belief on the power differences between the Battle of Gods characters below:

Super Saiyan God Goku is about a “6”, Beerus a “10” and Whis about a “15”.

To me this never made much sense, and please do not think that I am debating the word of the official creator of Dragon Ball Z. However, the key phrase here is that these levels are Akira’s “own personal belief.”

With that being said, I think it is fair for me (or any other fan for that matter) to have my own personal belief as well.

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As I mentioned before, Beerus was only fighting at 70% power when he battled Super Saiyan God Goku. The Saiyan never truly fought at 100% with his new godly power. His time limit in the form ran out before he could kick things up to full power.

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True, Beerus mentioned that Goku absorbed the power of the Super Saiyan God into his base form, and from there transformed into a Super Saiyan. That explained why he was able to fight on par with Beerus for some time, and he did not even notice that his Super Saiyan God fuel had burned out until Beerus mentioned it to him.

Some may argue that Goku fought Beerus as a Saiyan beyond God after his Super Saiyan God power fizzled out like a flat can of soda.

Others might mention that Goku fighting Beerus as a Full Power Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God was a potential foreshadowing of the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan!

Both are valid points, and I think they are worth mentioning.

Now here is where my opinion is slightly different than Akira’s own personal belief. If my math is mistaken, please feel free to let me know in the comment section below (and be respectful because we are all human, and mistakes can be made).

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If Beerus (at 70% power) was fighting Super Saiyan God Goku (at 80% power), wouldn’t this imply that Beerus is at best only 10% more powerful than Super Saiyan God Goku?

That conflicts with Goku being a 6, and Beerus being a 10. The gap of 4 seems to imply much more than a 10% difference in strength. My opinion is that Akira did not write Battle of Gods with the intention of having an exact measuring system of power levels.

Remember that they were only introduced into the series so the characters and fans would come to realize how useless they really were.

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Considering that Trunks at level 5 was the last power level scanned in the series, I am sure that we can assume that in the interview, Akira did not have an exact figure in his head regarding the power of the gods. We just know that Whis is more powerful than Beerus, and Beerus is more powerful than Goku.

To me, Full Power Super Saiyan Goku (with the power of Super Saiyan God) was not as powerful as he was when he was a Super Saiyan God. I say this because Goku was experiencing the power for the very first time, and he did not have full mastery over his new power yet.

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After training with Whis, I suspect the Saiyan beyond God version of Goku is superior to even his Super Saiyan God form from Battle of Gods (to a certain extent).

We then find out that the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is basically a Super Saiyan fighting with the power of a Super Saiyan God.

Wait, does that mean Goku could become a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 2 and a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3?

I am not going to go down that rabbit hole because we could be going back and forth about this for an eternity. If Goku could indeed reach those forms then as a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3, his power would be 400 times the power of a Saiyan beyond God!

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Now to get back on track, Saiyan beyond God is superior to Super Saiyan God in the sense that this is a base form Saiyan that has mastered the Super Saiyan God transformation.

What does this mean?

It means that base form Goku and Vegeta can fight with the power of a Super Saiyan God, but the time limit of the godly form is no longer a handicap.

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Again a comparison can be made to Ultimate Gohan vs. Super Saiyan 3. Gohan is allowed to fight with his maximum power without his Ki supply being quickly drained like a Super Saiyan 3.

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is the next stage of a superior Super Saiyan God because it also allows a Saiyan to fight with the power of the Super Saiyan God, but without any sort of time limit handicap.

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I know we have covered a lot of ground so far, but let’s do a quick recap just to be sure we are on the same page.

Saiyan beyond God is the base form of a Saiyan that has now mastered and retained the power of a Super Saiyan God. Any Saiyan that is capable of becoming a Super Saiyan can take their Saiyan beyond God stage to the level of a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

Both of these incarnations of a Saiyan can be considered superior in power to the Super Saiyan God transformation.

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Moving onto GT, although it was never officially stated; Goku in base form is said to be as powerful as he was at the Super Saiyan 3 level in DBZ (specifically in the Buu Saga, not the 10 year gap between the death of Kid Buu and the departure of Goku with Uub).

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This made me cringe as a child when I heard this because I was difficult to believe that Kid Goku (GT) was on par with the Super Saiyan 3 that we had seen fighting with Kid Buu!

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However, most fans associate Goku’s power to Super Saiyan 3 because of his statement to General Rilldo about the Machine Mutant being more powerful than even Majin Buu.

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Goku actually fights on par (and even has the upper hand for a good portion of the fight) with Rilldo, and that is why most fans say he was at the power of a Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku. It is also worth mentioning that this is in reference to Rilldo’s first form, and not his other 2 transformation that make Goku power up to Super Saiyan 1 which makes him 50 times more powerful than before.

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Things can get extremely complicated when thinking about a base form Goku being on par with his Super Saiyan 3 form from DBZ.

Think of it this way:

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Kid Goku (GT) in base form = Super Saiyan 3 Goku from Buu Saga.

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This would mean GT Goku is 400 times the power of base power Goku from the Buu Saga!

What does this mean in terms of the Super Saiyan multipliers when applied to GT Goku?

  • Super Saiyan 1 is 50 times base power
  • Super Saiyan 2 is twice the power of Super Saiyan 1
  • Super Saiyan 3 is four times the power of Super Saiyan 2
  • Super Saiyan 4 is ten times the power of Super Saiyan 3

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Meaning that Super Saiyan 4 Goku in GT is 4,000 times the power of Super Saiyan 3 Goku from the Buu Saga!

Yes, I find this mind blowing as well because it all goes back to what Vegeta from the Team Four Star Abridged series of DBZ said about power levels:

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Alright, at this point the question arises as to which form of Goku would come out on top if Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan met Super Saiyan 4.

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I am willing to bet that in terms of power alone…the winner would be Super Saiyan 4.

Hear me out on this:

We know that Super Saiyan God is more powerful than Super Saiyan 3, but we do not know by how much. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is speculated (and keep in mind that it is not official) to be 50 times the power of a Saiyan beyond God, and this “form” is literally a base form Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God.

Fans speculate Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan to be 50 times the power of a Super Saiyan God.

The reason I feel that Super Saiyan 4 Goku is more powerful is simply because a base form Goku that is equal in power to a Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku is just insane to think about because he gets a 4,000 times power increase at Super Saiyan 4.

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I will say that we do know Saiyan beyond God Goku is more powerful than GT base form Goku.

Why?

It has been said many times that Saiyan beyond Goku is basically Super Saiyan God Goku (just without the drastic change in appearance), and that would mean his power is much higher than Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

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However, if Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is indeed only 50 times the power of Saiyan beyond God (or Super Saiyan God), I feel that it goes without saying that a 50-fold power increase would not be able to matchup to a Super Saiyan 4 GT Goku.

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Super Saiyan GT Goku alone is already 50 times the power of Super Saiyan 3 DBZ Goku, which increases to 100 times as a Super Saiyan 2, and 400 times as a Super Saiyan 3…

I do not think that Super Saiyan God is that much of a power-up when compared to Super Saiyan 3.

If Goku were to fully master his training under Whis in order to become a perfect warrior, he would have an advantage over Super Saiyan 4 Goku.

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Remember that Whis pointed out Goku’s main flaw as being too relaxed in battle, and that leaves him open to attack. This can lead to his defeat by a weaker opponent, and we saw this happen when Sorbet blasted him through the heart with his ring laser!

Can you imagine a Goku that was flawless in combat? True, Super Saiyan 4 is more powerful, but that version of Goku would not have the training of Whis to back him up!

I am keeping “GT Goku” and “Battle of Gods Goku” as separate entities during this fight.

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Some fans are probably reading this and would consider the fight to be over in a matter of seconds! I mean Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku would just need to cut off Super Saiyan 4 Goku’s tail!

Yes, I know that would be a way of ending the fight very quickly. However, who would want to see that as the ending of such an epic battle?

I know that I would not want this battle between Super Saiyans to be over before it begun due to Super Saiyan 4 Goku’s main handicap.

Something else that needs to be taken into consideration is that Super Saiyan 4 and Super Saiyan God/Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan are completely different levels. I mean Super Saiyan 4 seems to fit into the same spectrum as the first 3 Super Saiyan levels.

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However, Super Saiyan God is in a league of its own. It is a being of such divine energy and power that it cannot be sensed by “lesser beings” through the use of a Ki signature. I do not think that this means Super Saiyan God is automatically more powerful than Super Saiyan 4 (because in GT, it is mentioned on more than one occasion by other characters that Goku’s Ki is incredible in the form; meaning “lesser beings” can sense his presence), but it means that it is in a different realm of power.

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Super Saiyan God is a powerful form, but until we are officially given the stats on how much more powerful it is than a Super Saiyan 3; this debate will most likely continue on.

Which form do you think is more powerful?

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Which form of Majin Buu is the strongest?

by Jeremy Carden

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This is one debate that is still going on between Dragonball fans. One has to wonder if this debate is discussed more than the Goku vs. Superman issue.

In any case, we all know that there are multiple forms of Majin Buu with Kid Buu being the original form until he started absorbing other beings into his body or when he split into a Good and Evil Buu.

The point of this blog is to go over my personal ranking of the Majin Buus from strongest to weakest.

I’ll be using facts, dialogue, fights and evidence from both the anime AND manga. This will help give you all an understanding of how and why I rank the Majin Buus in the order that I do from strongest to weakest.

Also understand that despite filler not being considered canon, I will use it for my discussion.

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For example, Super Saiyan 3 Goku’s “fight” with Super Buu Gotenks/Piccolo absorbed (Buutenks) was filler.

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So was Goku and Vegeta’s fight with Super Buu Gohan Absorbed (Buuhan).

Here are the Buus up for discussion:

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Kid Buu

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Buff Buu-Kid Buu after absorbing South Supreme Kai

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Fat Buu-Buff Buu after absorbing the Grand Supreme Kai/Daikaioh

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Good/Mr. Buu-The Good Buu after splitting from his evil side

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Evil Buu-the Evil Buu after splitting from his good side

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Super Buu-the resulting Buu after Evil Buu eats Good Buu

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Super Buu-Gotenks/Piccolo absorbed or “Buutenks”

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Super Buu-Piccolo/Goten/Trunks absorbed or “Buuccolo”

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Super Buu-Gohan/Goten/Trunks/Piccolo absorbed or “Buuhan”

Now here is how I rank them from strongest to weakest:

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1. Buuhan

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2. Buutenks

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3. Buff Buu

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4. Buuccolo

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5. Super Buu

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6. Fat Buu

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7. Kid Buu

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8. Evil Buu

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9. Good Buu

These are the topics that I will be going over to support my theories:

  • The power of the individual Buus including things like speed, durability, power and danger level
  • The power of the beings that he absorbed
  • Comparing the split between Good and Evil Buu to that of the split of the Original Namek
  • Comparing Fat Buu’s “endless power” to Gohan’s power drop after the Cell Games

Overall, I’m going to throw everything I have at this in order to prove why thoughts on this so I hope you appreciate the hard work but also have patience because I know this is a long blog but it is covering some solid information in order to help you understand what I’m talking about.

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Another thing that I do want to make note of is that I will not be using Uub or Majuub in my rankings because I don’t think it would be fair because he is Majin Buu reincarnated and before fusing with Good Buu he was 100% human. I will however make reference to him a couple of times though.

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And no I will not be including the Majin Buus from the video games where he absorbs Frieza, Cell, Vegeta or Yamcha/Tien!

So, to get things started let’s take a look at what Majin Buu is. He is a creation by the evil wizard Bibidi who made Buu as a weapon of destruction in his conquest to rule the galaxy.

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As Kid Buu laid waste to planet after planet in an endless domino effect of destruction there was little to no opposition that could stop him.

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Even when the Supreme Kais came to fight none of them were able to defeat Buu.

Later on, Shin or Supreme Kai or Eastern Supreme Kai (whatever you want to call him) told Vegeta that back in his time all of the Supreme Kais were defeated by Buu and would have been able to destroy Frieza with a single blow

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In the anime, he says that the Supreme Kais were all 1,000 times more powerful than Frieza

Just a couple of comments about that statement:

Due to Supreme Kai’s lack of knowledge about the Super Saiyans, I think it is safe to say that he also did not know about Frieza’s multiple forms.

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With that in mind I feel that he was comparing his former Kai associates to Frieza 1st form which was clocked at 530,000.

By doing math based on his statement 530,000 times 1,000 would equal 530,000,000.

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That number is over triple Frieza’s 100% power which was 120,000,000 but again this is all assumption based on Shin’s comment to Vegeta.

In any case, the Kais themselves were powerful but not powerful enough to defeat Kid Buu who effortlessly took them all down.

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Save for South Kai and Grand Supreme Kai but I will get to my thoughts on their individual powers below.

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Majin Buu can regenerate from molecules as Piccolo mentioned when Super Buu reformed after being blasted by the Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack followed by Piccolo and Super Saiyan Gotenks blasting the remaining bits of Buu to dust and the smoke from that reformed into Super Buu once again.

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He can mold his body into different shapes and forms

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A “volleyball” as seen when he uses the Mystic Ball Attack

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Like the Nameks can extend and retract his limbs for long range combat

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Fat Buu entraps people in his stomach to suffocate them by expanding his body

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Super Buu has been shown to liquefy himself and “force feed” his enemy until their bodies explode into pieces

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Something else worthy of note is his ability to break through dimension walls however it seems that he is only capable of doing this if he is EXTREMELY angry

Buu has a LONG list of powers that make him a very dangerous and unpredictable foe

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His most famous power seems to be the Candy Beam which changes his opponents or anything that it hits into the food item of his choice; mostly candy or desserts

The only forms of Buu not shown to have this ability is Buff, Kid and Evil Buu. It is understood that Buutenks could use the technique as well but of course I’m sure he wouldn’t change his own competition (Mystic Gohan) into candy.

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Buu’s speed varies depending on what form he is in. It seems safe to say that Buuhan is the fastest Majin Buu with the only being seen to be faster than him being Vegito.

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Kid Buu is arguably the fastest but only if you throw the Instant Transmission or Instantaneous Movement into the equation but remember that is a technique not his own natural speed

I mean on multiple occasions Buu is seen outmaneuvering the Z-Fighters;

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Fat Buu appeared in front of the fleeing Super Saiyan 2 Gohan who told Shin that he was pretty confident about his speed

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Super Buu after absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo was easily able to swat around Mystic Gohan

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Vegeta was no match for Kid Buu’s speed regardless of what form he was in whether it was base or Super Saiyan 2

Another thing to consider is that Majin Buu has an innate ability to mimic techniques used against him in battle.

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This was seen when Fat Buu used a Kamehameha Wave on Super Saiyan 3 Goku after Goku used it against him to blow a hole in his chest

Kid Buu did the same just by seeing Kibito Kai using the Instantaneous Movement to escape the exploding Earth

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During Uub’s fight with Goku at the end of DBZ, Vegeta mentions that the kid is learning how to fight while he’s fighting

Alright, so with all of these abilities taken into account let’s break it down into individual categories: stamina and durability

Stamina

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This has to be my favorite thing to discuss concerning Majin Buu because like the Energizer Bunny, this guy just keeps going and going and going…

There are only a few times when I can remember Majin Buu actually being tired

When Good Buu tries to hit Evil Buu with a melee barrage but not one punch lands he is seen catching his breath before being kicked away by Evil Buu

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One could argue that it was because Buu had just lost a lot of power in the fission with Evil Buu taking more of his power and abilities leaving the Good Buu in a weakened state

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Super Buu wasn’t tired but was seen reeling after a head butt from Gotenks

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Buuhan was extremely tired from his fight with Vegito even to the point of not being able to fully regenerate but I’ll get to that once I discuss his durability

Kid Buu’s only time showing to be even remotely exhausted was when he delivered a fierce barrage of attacks to Good Buu’s stomach and said “Whew…” before wiping his forehead.

Let’s take a moment and discuss Kid Buu’s stamina for a second because I feel like he went through the most:

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After reverting from Super to Buff to Kid Buu, he shots a Ki blast strong enough to destroy Earth but it is deflected by Vegeta so he uses the Planet Burst which has enough power to destroy Earth TEN TIMES!!!

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He then destroys countless planets one after the other before going to Grand Kai’s Planet and easily took out the fighters there including Pikkon, Olibu, Krillin and all the others before being “called” to Supreme Kai’s Planet to fight against Goku and Vegeta

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He is asleep before Goku powers up at Super Saiyan 2 to fight then goes Super Saiyan 3 before passing out due to exhaustion

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Buu then takes out base form Vegeta before he engages in battle with SS3 Goku once again

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After taking down Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta with ease…

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In comes Mr. Satan!

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Followed by a bout with the Good Buu

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Then ANOTHER round with base form Vegeta

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And finally we see Kid Buu vs. the Spirit Bomb!

He even manages to push back the bomb on a weakened Goku something no other villain has been able to do!

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Until he finally meets his end when Goku’s power is restored and he goes Super Saiyan to finish the fight.

BUT WAIT!!!!

How did Kid Buu send back the Spirit Bomb although he doesn’t have a pure heart?

Just like the Super Saiyan transformation, the word “pure” could mean A LOT of things. Kid Buu does have a GOOD pure heart like Goku. Kid Buu had a pure EVIL heart!

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King Kai nor any other being in Dragonball for that matter makes a good distinction of pure in terms of good and evil. I mean Krillin handled the bomb and although he isn’t evil, Krillin isn’t pure either. He lusts but not Roshi-level lust for women due to his desire for a girlfriend. I mean do you remember his girlfriend (filler) Marron?

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Also remember the bomb was created by Krillin it was handed to Krillin by Goku and then pure hearted Gohan was able to bounce it back at the off guard Vegeta

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Keep in mind that in Super Android 13, Goku turned Super Saiyan but it was only after the bomb was created so it could explain why Goku’s body absorbed it because the bomb was fading away and instead of letting that energy escape, Goku opted to use it to grant him the energy to finish the killer robot

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Frieza is more or less 100% evil like Kid Buu but he was straining to push it back because he was off guard but not strong enough to push it back like Kid Buu

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So, it could be a matter of power vs. pure beings. With that in mind it could just be that Kid Buu had more energy than the exhausted Goku and was able to push back the Spirit Bomb until Goku is restored to full power once again

Of course in the manga, after regenerating from Earth’s explosion he goes immediately to where Goku and Vegeta are to battle

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Not only that, the battles that took place were Kid Buu vs. SS3 Goku, then SS2 Vegeta, a brief comical fight with Hercule and his last “serious” bout was against Good Buu followed by Vegeta stalling him for Goku to launch the Spirit Bomb

In any case, Kid Buu is pretty much all but unstoppable because as Goku pointed out fighting against him was like fighting a hamster on a wheel because no matter how much Ki he puts out he still doesn’t get anywhere.

But then again the same can be said for anyone fighting against Buu because he is pretty much all but unstoppable.

Durability

This is another interesting topic because it is nearly impossible to generate an attack powerful enough to completely destroy Majin Buu so not even a trace, cell or atom of him remained.

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The only attack that was able to do so was the Super Spirit Bomb.

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I will say that I do not believe Buu to be as durable as Cell.

Why?

Take a look at Krillin’s Destructo Disk for example;

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After throwing it at Perfect Cell, the attack bounced off his neck and then crumbled to pieces with Cell just standing there in the process.

When using the attack on Kid Buu, it was able to cut him in half.

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Even when Goku returned to Earth, he launched a surprise disk that cut Buutenks in half as well.

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So he isn’t completely indestructible but thanks to regeneration and an almost limitless stamina he is all but unbeatable.

Perfect Game

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Final Kamehameha

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Though as seen after suffering from Super Vegito’s Perfect Game and Final Kamehameha attacks, Buu’s regeneration does have limits and if he is blasted too much the process sometimes does an incomplete regeneration and Buu has to put strain on himself (similar to Nail on Namek) to make himself whole again.

The only fighters shown to overpower or at least hold their own against Buu was Super Saiyan 3 Goku, Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, Mystic Gohan, Vegito and arguably South Kai during his brawl with Kid Buu and Grand Supreme Kai against Buff Buu.

Danger Level

Kid Buu MIGHT win in terms of which Buu is the most dangerous and I agree due to him being 100% evil, a killing machine and basically doing what he was created for; being a weapon of galactic destruction

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Heck he even tried to kill his creator once!

The only Buu I’d challenge Kid Buu with in this category is Buuhan but only due to him being far more powerful not to mention smarter (thanks to Piccolo in his head). True he isn’t as unpredictable because Kid Buu will either toy with you or simply kill you along with the planet you are on.

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However, Super Buu can break through dimensions when pissed off and while Kid Buu does have a hyper scream I don’t know if he can do that with his Kiai. It might have to do more with power and anger than just anger. Super Buu was much weaker than Buuhan and he was only able to open up ONE dimensional wall to exit the Time Chamber while Buuhan opened up MANY gateways if you wanna look at it that way. Now if it is about power then Kid Buu would fall short.

Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks mimicked the ability but remember Super Saiyan Gotenks and Piccolo tried multiple times but it wasn’t enough but when he went Super Saiyan 3 did it everything just fell into place and BOOM they escaped so indeed power might play a factor.

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Buuhan was about to rip apart the ENTIRE universe if Vegito wasn’t able to punch his lights out.

Kid Buu could destroy the universe given time and thanks to Instant Transmission it would be one planet blowing up after the next.

However, I might have to lean toward Super Buu or Buuhan in this category due to him breaking down dimensional walls all at once!

Now let’s take a look at the opponents who Buu squared off against and yes I will be including filler anime fights

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1. Fat Buu vs. Dabura

Dabura mocked Buu for his behavior and he paid for it! Buu simply gouged his eyes and kicked him into a mountain. It stunned Gohan and Shin while Babidi screamed with glee at how powerful his “pet Majin” was. For the first time we see Goku stunned at the sudden show of Ki from Buu while he and Vegeta were far off in their battle.

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2. Fat Buu vs. Super Saiyan 2 Gohan

While trying to escape, Buu swatted Gohan into the ground while beating down the Supreme Kai and when Gohan got back up he kicked Buu only for the point of impact to pop back out of Buu’s head like nothing happened. Kind of like a memory foam mattress and while Gohan rushed Buu he easily blasted Gohan into the air. But due to Shin’s interference he was able to save Gohan’s life.

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3. Fat Buu vs. Supreme Kai

Shin threw everything he had whether it was the huge Ki blast seen in the picture or an eye Kiai blast it was clear that he was not match for the Majin who was about to eat him until…

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4. Fat Buu vs. Dabura (Round 2)

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Dabura threw a spear that Buu easily pulled out of his stomach and regenerated from. The Demon King still damaged from Buu’s earlier attack threw a barrage of melee and then Ki blasts that did nothing to Majin Buu whole then dodged his Stone Spit and countered with his Candy beam turning him into a giant cookie ending Dabura’s life

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5. Fat Buu vs. Majin Vegeta

The 100% Super Saiyan 2 Majin Vegeta (thanks to Goku’s Senzu Bean) put up a good fight but was unable to keep up with Buu’s constant regeneration and even with the Final Explosion blowing him to bits…

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Buu reformed!

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6. Fat Buu vs. Super Saiyan 3 Goku

The debut of the Super Saiyan 3 form was the first to really show Majin Buu a REAL challenge. However, the more Ki Goku put out fighting, it seemed that Buu’s power continued to increase as well. Indeed showing that we never really see the Fat Buu’s FULL power due to captivity in his ball capping his power and this “exercise” helped him tap into it again

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7. Fat Buu vs. base Gotenks

The cocky Fused Gotenks was easily defeated by Fat Buu and had to go back to the Lookout with a bruised body and ego after going on about how he was going to bring back Buu dead!

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8. Good Buu vs. Evil Buu

If you ask me I think Evil Buu took over 50% of the power after splitting from Good Buu given how EASILY he was able to defeat his “better” half. I’d estimate at least 60%-75% of the power was given to him and after using his trademark move, Evil Buu blew back the Candy Ray to turn Good Buu into chocolate (talk about karma!)

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9. Super Buu vs. base Gotenks

This fight was mostly just for show thanks to Trunks’ plan of putting on a show and then surprising Buu with his Super Saiyan forms. Even after his first melee brawl he realized that Super Buu was more powerful than he thought

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10. Super Buu vs. Super Saiyan Gotenks

After kicking it up a notch showing that he could go Super Saiyan after fusing, Gotenk was still no match for Buu’s power and speed but due to his multiple and wacky attacks he managed to keep Buu at bay

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11. Super Buu vs. Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks

This was a great fight showing that Gotenks proved the old saying “Anything you can do I can do better!” Buu was irritating Gotenks but whatever the Majin threw at him, Gotenks would throw right back! Mystic Ball from Buu turned into the Super Buu-Buu Volleyball attack from Gotenks! When he was finally about to finish the job…his Super Saiyan 3 power was gone!

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12. Super Buu vs. base Gotenks

Enter “normal” Gotenks trying to stall Super Buu but to no avail. When your own Super Ghost question your orders you know you are screwed…

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13. Super Buu vs. Mystic Gohan

Mystic Gohan came on the scene and simply dominated Super Buu, really there isn’t much to say here except why Gohan didn’t use any Ki attacks to simply kill Buu…

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14. Buutenks vs. Mystic Gohan

Which is something he would come to regret once he absorbed Gotenks and Piccolo easily beating Gohan. If you ask me I think the anime’s take on this fight was more accurate than the manga. In the manga, Buu dominated Gohan the ENTIRE fight but in the anime, it was shown that the two were more or less even but only when Buu started taunting him (thanks to Piccolo) was he able to chip away at Gohan’s confidence causing the mighty hero to fight sloppy

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15. Buutenks vs. Tien

Kudos to Tien for saving Dende’s life with his Tri-Beam to deflect Buu’s blast but it was to no avail when he aimed for Buu to no damage at all but that’s understandable this guy was beating Mystic Gohan to a pulp!

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After Goku returns on the scene, he is easily knocked out with a swift kick from Buu’s lower half. At least Goku DID consider to fuse with him later on but due to being out cold that was out of the question

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16. Buutenks vs. Super Saiyan 3 Goku

This was more about Goku stalling than actually fighting similar to his ight with Fat Buu so Trunks could get the Dragon Radar, he was waiting for Gohan to find the Potara Earring. This proved how Buu outclassed the Super Saiyan 3 in power AND speed with Goku not being able to land a punch. He landed a Kamehameha Volley (one blast to the chest) only because Buu was off guard blasting at Gohan

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17. Buuhan vs. Super Saiyan Goku and Super Saiyan Vegeta

I love watching this fight but if one Super Saiyan 3 couldn’t handle Buutenks then two Super Saiyans wouldn’t have a prayer against the much more powerful Buuhan

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18. Buuhan vs. base Vegito

Buuhan couldn’t inflict any damage on Vegito even after many punches and energy blasts. It seemed clear that Vegito could have defeated Buuhan without even going Super Saiyan (as Old Kai said in the beginning)

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19. Buuhan vs. Super Saiyan Vegito or as most people call him “Super Vegito”

If base form Vegito could finish the job, then the 50 times more powerful Super Vegito could handle it as well. Beating Buu to the point that even his regeneration powers were starting to wear thin

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20. Super Buu vs. Super Saiyan Goku and Super Saiyan Vegeta

Its true that the 2 Saiyans “beat” the first Super Buu but it was just a mind puppet I guess you could say but really they were in Buu’s head so they couldn’t really defeat him

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21. Kid Buu vs. the fighters on Grand Kai’s Planet

Buu easily defeated all of the other fighters…um yeah that’s about it

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22. Kid Buu vs. Super Saiyan 2 Goku

A very good fight with Goku even blowing Buu to bits at one point…only for him to regenerate. Filler only but still worth watching showing Goku could hold his own!

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23. Kid Buu vs. Super Saiyan 3 Goku

The only fight that shows Buu being pushed back instead of doing all of the pushing…until Goku collapsed from exhaustion

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24. Kid Buu vs. base Vegeta

After his rival passes out, Vegeta takes the stage! But why he decided to fight in base form is over my head. He just saw Super Saiyan 3 Goku pass out why wouldn’t he go Super Saiyan 2 to fight?

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25. Kid Buu vs. Super Saiyan 3 Goku (Round 2)

This fight was good but the highlight is Vegeta finally realizing Goku is #1. And if not for his toying around before, Goku could have ended this fight instead of stalling for Vegeta to have a shot at winning

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26. Kid Buu vs. Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta (Round 2)

Really something to see due to how “even” Super Saiyan 2 Goku and Buu were but how easily Vegeta got beaten but you can’t keep a good Saiyan down because Vegeta delivers some of his best pride dialogue in this battle! All seemed lost until the greatest hero ever stepped up to help out!!

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27. Kid Buu vs. Hercule

That’s right Mr. Satan!!!! Who holds Buu off due to Good Buu torturing Kid Buu’s head. But he actually dodges a couple of Buu’s attacks that even manages to impress Goku!

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28. Kid Buu vs. Good Buu

Honestly, the only reason Good Buu could hold his own was due to his regeneration abilities and the fact that he knew just about all of the same moves as Kid Buu but as the battle went on we see for the first time Majin Buu (in any form) run out of energy!

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29. Kid Buu vs. base Vegeta (Round 3)

After being wished back, I can see why Vegeta wouldn’t be as durable as he was before while dead and his power wasn’t quite back yet so I guess I can see why he didn’t transform for this fight but he managed to stay alive in order for the Spirit Bomb to be complete!

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30. Kid Buu vs. base/Super Saiyan Goku using the Spirit Bomb

Goku was exhausted and after some straining, Buu managed to throw back the blue ball until Goku’s Ki was restored and was able to finish the job!

Now let’s take a look at the strength of the people he absorbed:

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South Kai as Shin pointed out is one of the Supreme Kais who could kill Frieza with one blow. Considering that he was the strongest of the 4 Supreme Kais of his time with the Grand Supreme Kai seemingly the only person in the Kai or guardianship position that could exceed his power, he was certainly not a fighter to be taken lightly.

If you ask me, I feel that South Kai is AT LEAST in the power level range of a Super Saiyan 2. The reason I say this is because as I mentioned before he was able to hold his own against Kid Buu in a melee brawl. I mean the only one shown to do that against Kid Buu was Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Heck, South Kai even managed to rip off one of his arms!

I estimate Supreme Kai/South Kai/Shin to be around the power of the Ascended Super Saiyans in the Cell Saga like Super Vegeta so I’d imagine South Kai to be in the range of Super Saiyan 2 or above but not quite at Super Saiyan 3. I think he’s strong but not THAT strong.

The reason I don’t believe him to be that powerful is because one kick from Buu pretty much jacked up his face as you’ll see in another picture from their battle. Goku was bleeding but it took A LOT from Kid Buu to make that happen to the Super Saiyan 3.

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Grand Supreme Kai being the leader is the strongest and with South Kai by my estimation being near or above a Super Saiyan 2, this guy has to be strong! Is he at Super Saiyan 3 power?

Not sure…

But in any case he sure has some interesting techniques due to slicing up Buff Buu into pieces with a mouth blast! I’m sure he must use that on his food…

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Piccolo or Kamiccolo is a fighter who I don’t wager to be as powerful as Gohan was against Cell. After his trip into the Time Chamber, I feel that he had the power to rival that of Ascended Super Saiyan Trunks and Vegeta after their first trip into the Chamber. He didn’t lounge around during the 7 years in between the Cell and Buu Sagas as Gohan did but I don’t think he spent ALL of his time training like Vegeta. It seems that most of his time was spent on the Lookout with Dende and Popo most likely just teaching Dende how to be a good guardian.

That being said, he probably increased his power but not to the point where he was double the power of his Cell Saga persona.

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Gotenks as a Super Saiyan 3 is hands down one of the most powerful fighters in the Dragonball universe. His strength is above Super Saiyan 3 Goku and it could be argued that he did have the power to kill Super Buu but due to Buu’s endurance, Gotenks’ cockiness preventing him from finishing the job and the time limit on both his Super Saiyan 3 power and fusion time running out kept him from victory.

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Goten and Trunks are more or less even and I think in base form they’d be around the power of Frieza’s 1st form of 530,000 and as Super Saiyans that would put them over 26,000,000 but again that is just an estimate and I’ll get into more detail in another blog.

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Mystic Gohan is the strongest of any of the people that Buu had ever absorbed. His power was greater than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks or Goku. He was the only fighter capable of going toe to toe with Super Buu.

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Absorption

The purpose of Absorption: This is just a point I’d like to make regarding the power of Kid Buu.

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Why does Majin Buu in any of his forms absorb another being into his body?

Essentially it is to add more power to his already impressive power level.

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If you ask me that is the overall purpose of it.

I believe that the one exception would be Piccolo. True he was absorbed at the same time as Gotenks who was obviously absorbed just for his power which Buu knew would only last for 30 minutes in order to defeat Mystic Gohan.

Piccolo was more or less an extra bonus because think of it this way, if he had just absorbed Gotenks, Buu would of course be extremely powerful but he wouldn’t really know what to do with the power.

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Super Buu on his own was a bit more mindful than Fat Buu but not the brightest fighter as seen when Gotenks used the Super Ghost to fool him into thinking a piece of candy was on the floor of the Time Chamber to have him drop his guard and get blown up.

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But with Piccolo, he’d be able to outsmart his opponent using not just power but psychological warfare which he used well against Gohan to lower his confidence slowing taking away his power in the sense that he wouldn’t be able to fight at his maximum because his emotions would cloud his judgement.

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I mean the reason I think Buff Buu is STRONGER than Kid Buu is because Buu would not have absorbed him in the first place unless he felt that South Kai was a being worth absorbing.

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West and North Kai didn’t do much against Buu and when he faced South Kai it was shown to be his first real challenge, someone who Buu couldn’t just swat away like he did the other 2 Kais or the inhabitants of the numerous planets he destroyed.

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If anything, Buff Buu is like Buff Cell or Ultra Super Saiyan in that it is just raw power.

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I mean when he faced Grand Supreme Kai it seemed like he finally met his match because of one mouth blast chopped Buu into pieces and then made him explode.

He probably figured that of course this Kai was stronger than South Kai and wanted to add the extra power to his being but did not know the power of Grand Kai wouldn’t be the ONLY thing he’d absorb.

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It seemed that Grand Kai’s goodness was more powerful than Buu’s evil. Explaining why he became the fat and jolly Buu rather than the killing machine Kid Buu or the tank that was Ultra/Buff Buu.

I don’t think South Kai’s goodness was stronger than Kid Buu’s evil I mean we don’t see much of Buff Buu but I doubt he was anywhere near as gentle as Fat Buu.

The reason I am including this is because a lot of people think that Kid Buu is the strongest.

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To all of the people who say that answer this question for me: if Kid Buu (who Super Saiyan 3 Goku said he could defeat but only if he could emit 100% of his Ki at once to kill him) is stronger than Buuhan then why didn’t Goku just go Super Saiyan 3 and defeat him in the Fusion Saga?

The answer; BECAUSE HE COULDN’T!!!!

Remember Goku was so desperate for extra power when Buuhan was going to allow him til the count of 5 to find someone to fuse with that he was about to throw the Potara Earring to HERCULE!!!

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Even before he threw it he contemplated the pros and cons:

1. Mr. Satan’s lack of Ki knowledge could do more harm than good

2. He DOES know basic martial arts

3. Fusing with him could actually LOWER Goku’s power rather than increase it!

If not for him sensing Vegeta’s Ki, that fusion would have happened

Remember against Kid Buu, he and Vegeta both agreed that they did not want to use the Potara again due to it being permanent.

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Goku says that since Buu isn’t a fused being anymore that it wouldn’t be fair and he opted to fight solo; this happened in both the anime and manga

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Instead of using the Fusion Dance as Old Kai predicted they did the next best technique; Rock, Paper, Scissors!!

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Going off another piece of dialogue that makes fans speculate that Goku could not defeat Super Buu (even before absorbing the Z-Fighters) due to him saying that if they escaped Buu’s head they way that they were now (being in their base forms and the highest Goku could go is Super Saiyan 3 and Vegeta could go Super Saiyan 2) and he said Fusion was their only option to survive when getting to the outside.

Makes sense to me due to how strong Gotenks and Gohan are and they were the only ones who could smack around Super Buu like he was nothing.

Of course how can I talk about this subject without going into detail about Super Saiyan 3?

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Goku said that if he really tried he could have defeated Majin Buu or more specifically the FAT Majin Buu but he wanted Goten, Gohan and Trunks to have a shot at saving the world because he wouldn’t be around forever.

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However in the manga he sounds a lot less confident in his abilities to defeat the Fat Majin Buu when compared to the anime where he says “probably” but even so in the manga he wasn’t so sure

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Later on he tells Vegeta that if he fought Kid Buu at 100% from the start he could have defeated him not to mention he needed a moment to collect the Ki needed to kill him but he couldn’t do that with all of the high paced fighting that he was doing with Kid Buu

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Not to mention the Super Saiyan 3 confirmed that if Vegito was “here” the battle would be over in no time

This is one reason why I say that Kid Buu might actually be weaker than the Fat Majin Buu (not the Good Buu I mean the Buu we see after absorbing Grand Supreme Kai and the first Buu we see in the series after his ball is opened).

Here is one topic that needs to be discussed: Potara Earrings vs. Fusion Dance

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A common misconception is due to the Old Kai’s double-talk. When Goku says that he’ll do a Fusion with Gohan and then beat Buu, Old Kai is quick to scold him. He says that Buu isn’t just going to wait around while the two practice the moves and align their power levels and he made a good point.

I’m sure at that point Buu knew that Gotenks’ fusion wasn’t going to last much longer and the last thing he needed was an even more powerful fused being going up against him when he was about to lose his main source of power!

In any case here is what the manga says about this moment:

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If you ask me I think that Old Kai was referring from the pros and cons of the Potara Earrings vs. the Fusion Dance. In that case I could see why the earrings are “stronger” than the dance.

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When it comes to the earrings all the users have to do is place one on the opposing earring as their fusion partner and BOOM there is an instant fusion.

Potara is better than that ridiculous dance!!!

Potara is better than that ridiculous dance!!!

From what I can tell there are only 2 drawbacks;

1. The Fusion is permanent

2. If one or both of the people fusing is in a powered up state (like Super Saiyan for example) when the merger takes place there will be a considerable amount of strain placed on the fused body and since most beings can not stay in their powered up forms forever it will shorten their life force or lifetime.

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Now let’s look at the Fusion Dance in terms of cons;

1. One false move in the “dance” execution and the Fusion will fail resulting in either a fat or old and frail being

2. It takes a lot of practice and a good memory to remember the moves correctly

3. Both people have to emit the same Ki levels for the dance to work

4. Both people have to be of similar size

5. Depending on the power of the fused being it could actually do more harm than good with some fused beings being so powerful that it actually shortens the amount of time they can stayed fused; Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta only lasts 1/3 or 10 minutes of the total 30 minutes of Fusion

6. After a fusion (failed or successful) the two are unable to fuse for a full hour which isn’t good especially if you are fighting an extremely tough opponent

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So, when you look at it that way, the Potara Earrings ARE stronger than the Fusion Dance. However, that doesn’t mean the resulting being is more powerful than the Fusion Dance.

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Again, this is up to fan speculation because this is what it boils down to if you are trying to compare the power of Super Saiyan Gogeta and Vegito.

Here is where I get to the part of the blog where I confirm two things that I actually kind of doubt myself about;

1. Whether Buff Buu IS more powerful than Buuccolo

2. If Fat Buu IS more powerful than Kid Buu

Here is how I look at it when it comes to Buff Buu based on the power of South Kai. As I mentioned before, I think he is near or above the Super Saiyan 2 level. Piccolo is not as strong as a Super Saiyan 2 but still pretty powerful. Don’t forget that Buuccolo also has the power of Goten and Trunks. HOWEVER, in their people pods the two hybrids are in their base forms so the question remains as to whether or not Super Buu could access their Super Saiyan power. I know Piccolo is more powerful than them regardless of their form.

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In any case, if Buuccolo is less powerful than Buff Buu then it doesn’t really matter because he is indeed a lot smarter. Buff Buu is like a rhino or tank just charging into his opponents with his huge body.

In a battle, I think that Buuccolo COULD win due to having brains and power.

I did list Super Buu to be more powerful than Kid Buu regardless of whether he is fused with anyone or not but also notice that Buff Buu is above him because Goku and Vegeta mentioned that he was increasing in both body and power instead of decreasing after ripping out Good Buu’s pod.

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Though when he reverts to Kid Buu they mention he got “manageable” in that they could beat him but they were not prepared for his wild and berserk nature.

In any case, in terms of raw power I think that Buff Buu exceeds Buuccolo but in terms of who would win a fight I think it would be Buuccolo if he can come up with strategy and technique to overcome the raging beast

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Now here is where I try to confirm why I feel that the Fat Majin Buu if more powerful than Kid Buu;

For one as I mentioned before, the purpose of absorption is to increase the already incredible power of a being by incorporating the power of another.

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In both the anime and manga, it is suggested that by absorbing South and Grand Supreme Kai, Majin Buu’s power was dropped due to the Kai’s good influcence over him. Remember Kid Buu was 100% evil but by absorbing the Kais he not only took their power but also some of their personality traits and along with that was goodness. As I mentioned before, South Kai’s goodness wasn’t enough to overpower Buu’s evil but when Grand Supreme Kai was absorbed so was his goodness and that seemed enough to overcome Buu’s wild nature.

If you ask me I don’t think Buu’s power dropped where the Kais “took away” his power. I think it was just buried inside if that makes sense.

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For comparison let’s look at Gohan: Remember it was said that the Fat Buu’s power just kept on increasing and it was like a bottomless well that was never ending.

It might sound wrong but actually it makes A LOT of sense.

He spent centuries in his ball so it makes sense that his power became “contained.”

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From his brief fight with Dabura to his fight with Super Saiyan 3 Goku, it was said that the more powerful his opponent, the more Buu’s power increased.

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Remember that Gohan reached his peak during the Cell Games when he finally delivered the final blow to the Android.

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Though for 7 years, he spent his time going to school and studying like his mother wanted and actually dropped his power because when he went Super Saiyan 2 against Kibito, Vegeta said that he was a lot more powerful as a kid.

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However, he still had a lot of power contained and it had to be released thanks to the efforts of Old Kai. I mean Goku and  Vegeta were even at Super Saiyan 2 but more powerful than Gohan but after his power up, Mystic Gohan had the power to be stronger than Vegeta or even a Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Gotenks.

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It is like an athelthe who was at his peak but stopped training and working out for a long time, their strength drops. The same with Majin Buu being in that ball so long or Gohan sitting at his desk studying so long, his power was still there but it is “hidden” once again.

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Of course the best way to illustrate my point is to compare the fights between the dead Super Saiyan 3 Goku vs. Fat Buu against the alive Goku at Super Saiyan 3 fighting Kid Buu BUT while in the Other World.

I think this level of Super Saiyan should be a clear indicator of how strong Buu is.

The real question is: Is Goku stronger as a Super Saiyan 3 while dead?

I know that he said a living body chugs more energy than a dead one and in Other World, Super Saiyan 3 was “easy.”

Against Fat Buu, he didn’t take much if any damage at least on the outside of his body but against Kid Buu it was clear that he was damaged and passed out from exhaustion.

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Perhaps his power isn’t different whether or not he is dead or alive. It might just boil down to the fact that while he is dead, he is better equipped to handle the form without the strain on his body.

When he was fighting Fat Buu, it was said multiple times that Majin Buu’s power was increasing to keep up with Goku’s beacuse he said that the more power he puts out the more powerful Buu became.

Against Kid Buu it seemed clear that the Majin was able to keep up with Goku but it was never said that he was getting stronger just that he had the speed and endurance to keep up with Goku. Though it has to be mentioned that the battle took such a toll on Goku that it got to the point where his attacks were not even fazing Buu anymore.

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Similar to 100% Frieza vs. Goku on Namek, Frieza’s body was being strained by his power and he was getting weaker the longer the fight went on

So, if it were a battle between Fat Buu and Kid Buu I think that Fat Buu just might come out on top but with the Instant Transmission it might be possible for Kid Buu to win due to his berserk nature vs. the laid back nature of Fat Buu.

Really it is similar to Buff vs. Buuccolo in that it is more than just raw power but abilities.

Those were the only points that I felt needed to be addressed in terms of any doubts that I was having before.

Which is the best Buu?

When it really boils down to it, there are only TWO pure Majin Buus and those are Evil and Kid Buu. All of the other Buus have another being inside of them taking away from his pure Majin nature in both power, personality  and danger level.

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Look at the fission from Good Buu like Kami and King Piccolo

We have an extremely powerful being (Fat Buu) who is generally good but due to an unseen evil in their heart it must be expelled and the result is two beings of equal power but one good and the other evil.

However, in Buu’s case it is clear that the evil side is far more powerful than the good.

And that makes perfect sense!

Remember Kid Buu was 100% evil and only “good” after absorbing the 2 Kais and even then he wasn’t completely good and not completely evil.

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And remember Fat Buu was generally good and hungry like Grand Supreme Kai however you could tell he was still somewhat evil. His eyes would open whenever he was mad or about to do something evil like kill people for no reason at all showing that the destructive Kid Buu was still inside of him somewhere.

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The reverse can be said after Evil Buu eats Good Buu and the evil takes over with the Good holding him back with candy cravings and not killing Hercule

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So, when you think about it Evil Buu is the physical manifestation of the evil inside of Fat Buu and really he could be interpreted as another form of Kid Buu.

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Kind of like Gray Hulk is to Bruce Banner in that he is smarter and can talk clearer than Green Hulk; similar to Evil Buu and Good Buu

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It is obvious Good Buu got the short end of the stick with Evil Buu pretty much easily swatting around his good counterpart and for some reason after coming together again to form Super Buu he could sense Ki…

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Yeah I have to scratch my head on that one because it was as random as Vegeta learning how to do it after his beam collision with Goku back in the Saiyan Saga due to him saying as a Great Ape that he could “feel” Goku in the area while he was collecting Ki for the Spirit Bomb

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In terms of which is the strongest or best Majin Buu then the obvious winner is Kid Buu since he is a PURE Majin Buu who is stronger than Evil Buu.

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Though when you throw in his multiple incarnations including his Fusion with other beings then of course Buuhan is #1

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One thing about Kid Buu that makes it difficult to measure his power is that he never fights seriously.

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It seems like he’ll gladly take an attack that blasts him to bits but reforms like it was nothing.

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It seemed that Super Saiyan 2 Goku was holding his own against Kid Buu but the Majin was EASILY able to beat Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta who is equal in power to Goku. That might be due to Goku being a superior marital artists than Vegeta or because Goku and Kid Buu was sizing each other up before the real fight began when he went Super Saiyan 3.

Though it is the unpredictability of Kid Buu that makes him one of my favorites I will say that much about him.

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We saw the limits of Buuhan’s power since he could mimic the moves of the fighters he absorbed and because Vegito was more powerful than him so he had to pull out all the stops and from what we’ve seen I don’t know why people think that Kid Buu could defeat him

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I mean take away the dialouge from the Kais about Kid Buu being the most powerful and please explain WHY he is stronger. I mean we are talking about Kibito Kai (50% Supreme Kai) who didn’t know the Super Saiyans existed, the Potara Earring effects and the list goes on about how bad of a guardian he is. So, why take his word so seriously?

In conclusion:

I just feel that Super Buu or more specifically Buutenks and Buuhan were far more powerful than Kid Buu. The main reason why is that their existence demanded Fusion to be used to compete or beat them.

After Gotenks’ Fusion time ran out, Super Saiyan 3 Goku was confident that Gohan alone could finish off Buu

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Well until Buu absorbed Gohan as well making Goku desperate for a Fusion partner

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Goku was pretty confident in his own abilities to defeat Kid Buu and seriously, I think that he could do it if he had the time to gather the necessary Ki.

So that pretty much sums up why I feel that Buuhan is far more powerful than Kid Buu and why I rank them from strongest from weakest the way that I do.

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Regardless of what the anime or manga says, I just feel that it is for a reason given the fact we are shown powerful characters like Mystic Gohan, Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks and Vegito who outclass Super Saiyan 3 Goku in power but Buu proved to be more powerful than Gotenks and Gohan.

Now it is time for the fans to speak up as to whether or not you agree with me and why.

Thanks for reading!