Dragon Ball Super: Have Goku and Vegeta Surpassed Beerus?

By Jeremy Carden

1500x500

I must say that the Dragon Ball Super manga has blown me away with such amazing storytelling and action! Even though there are multiple inconsistencies with the manga (and anime) when compared to the original Dragon Ball Z series, I still enjoy reading the manga chapters.

What I think is the most amazing thing about the Dragon Ball Super franchise is the fact that I get to follow it from start to finish. I did not get into the series until I was about 11-years-old, and by that time the manga was done. The anime (in the United States) was in the Kid Buu Saga, and I was fresh to the scene.

In this case, I got to see the Dragon Ball Super series begin with episode 1, and read the manga from Chapter 1. Overall, I just feel privileged to be living in a time like this!

dragon-ball-super-episode-19

Now, I am truly excited to see that Goku and Vegeta have finally begun training together. Considering that they are rivals, I think that their training is much more effective as a result. I can see them learning from each other, and really growing as a result. They are probably trying to one-up each other in their sparring sessions.

According to the manga, they trained in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber for 3 years (3 days in our time). Looking past the obvious inconsistency here (only being able to use the room for 48 hours in a lifetime; established by Mr. Popo in DBZ), that is truly impressive!

hqdefault

I have heard that the Time Chamber was rebuilt after the Buu Saga, and it now allows visitors to use it for more than 48 hours total. Remember that it was destroyed during the battle between Super Buu and Gotenks (Piccolo blew up the door), and apparently rebuilt when the world was restored after being destroyed by Kid Buu.

Whis pointed out the flaws in each Saiyan as an individual, and taught them about how to control their new godly ki. Goku’s carefree attitude which made him vulnerable was the opposite of Vegeta’s uptight demeanor that prevents him from fighting at his maximum potential in a battle.

maxresdefault

At some point in the anime, Whis says that there was no longer a need to train the two Saiyans. During their sparring sessions together, the Saiyans’ innate fighting abilities resulted in them progressing much quicker than Whis had originally anticipated.

Overall, Whis’ goal was to get the Saiyans to become more in tune with their new godly ki. This was why he did not allow them to become Super Saiyan or beyond during their training, and only wanted them in base form to master their new powers. Even though Whis pointed out to the Oracle Fish (in the anime) that the Saiyans knew this which was why he never had to outright tell them to train in base form.

Screenshot_2

Beerus was annoyed by the constant noise that the Saiyans were making, and he told Whis to send him to “that place.” It turned out to be a Hyperbolic Time Chamber-like voice where Goku and Vegeta were surrounded by godly energy.

Whis told them that they must raise their powers without it leaking out of their bodies because it would alert their opponents to the power-up.

Screenshot_1

Vegeta noticed that until they mastered Whis’ tip, they would not be able to move at all in “that place.” He figured this out because Goku which once again shows that he is a better tactician than his Saiyan rival.

It is unknown exactly how long Goku and Vegeta were in “that place” training in order to master their new godly powers. Goku mentioned that the measurement of time in “that place” was different than the outside world.

SS_5

Eventually, Whis releases the two back into the real world. Like the length of time they were in “that place”, it is unknown how much more powerful the two had become. The only thing that we know came as a result was the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan transformation.

Screenshot_49

The one thing that I felt caught my attention during their time in “that place” was Whis’ staff. Goku figured that it was the only way of getting out of the void. Take a look at the picture above of Whis’ staff just floating there.

DBS

I always wondered what Goku and Vegeta’s walk towards the light in the opening theme of Dragon Ball Super was all about. After seeing them train, I think that I have figured it out.

zzjoD2O

From that same light, we see Beerus/Champa along with Whis/Vados descend to the front of our television (or computer) screens.

Overall, I think Goku and Vegeta approaching that light was their ascension to the level of gods. Then seeing the 4 gods mentioned above coming out from that light is proof of Goku and Vegeta trying to follow in their footsteps in order to reach a higher power.

giphy

This is further backed up by the fact that the next scene shows Goku, Vegeta, Gohan and Goten fighting off Frieza’s soldiers; which symbolized the Resurrection F saga which is happening now.

12316229_672381489571792_7139689757280640473_n

I guess one difference is that in the anime, Frieza powering up to his final form killed his remaining soliders before Goku and Vegeta could take them on; minus Vegeta killing Tagoma (well Ginyu).

tumblr_nydy1cSTY01rqe0rbo1_500

Alright, Whis mentioned that Goku and Vegeta had a chance at beating Beerus if they teamed up. Super Saiyan Blue is more powerful than Super Saiyan God, and this means SS Blue is more powerful than the 70% Beerus that we saw in the first movie.

Frieza_pounds_Goku

Individually, I do not think that SS Blue Goku or Vegeta could defeat Beerus. I think that is proven by the fact that Golden Frieza (before his ki began to fall) was more powerful than SS Blue Goku, but he was still frightened of Beerus.

photo

Beerus would probably need to exhaust around 85% or so to defeat the likes of Golden Frieza, and 80% for a single SS Blue opponent.

Again, that is just my opinion with a tiny bit of power scaling based on what has been seen from the movies.

hyperbolic-620x

Moving on with the Time Chamber training, Goku and Vegeta train in 10 times gravity for 3 years. During that time, it would not surprise me if the duo reached Super Saiyan Blue 2 and Super Saiyan Blue 3!

super_saiyan_blue

However, Akira stated in an interview that the SS2 and SS3 transformations were a thing of the past with the main focus being on SS1 because it was the form that utilized the least ki consumption and strain on the user’s body.

I do not know if SS Blue will be the last transformation that we will see in the series. Unless we get to see an SS Blue Vegito or Gogeta!

12279032_752677184876219_4481707266210295481_n

Something tells me that at some point during the Champa Saga or afterwards; Goku and Vegeta will fuse! I have already written a couple of blogs with my thoughts on that subject.

f2tpdq

Back to the subject of this blog, I do not see any reason why Goku and Vegeta have NOT surpassed Beerus after their 3 years of training. We are talking about a God of Destruction who does nothing aside from eating, sleeping and watching anime (Whis mentioned that to Goku and the others.

jlvhdzr

Compare that purple cat to a couple of warriors who eat, breathe and do nothing but train! I truly believe that their training has resulted in them surpassing the God of Destruction. Unless they get into a battle again with Beerus, I am not sure if they are even aware of their increase in power to the point of rivaling Beerus or surpassing him.

dbsuper-cartas2

I do not think that they have surpassed Whis, but I think a fusion between the two would give him one heck of a battle. Why? Given the time that the two have trained with each other instead of training separately against each other, I think it is safe to say that they know each other like the back of their hands.

Seeing if the two have truly mastered Whis’ training of their weaknesses is something that I would like to see. After the time spent fighting each other, I think they might have seen what makes the other Saiyan a genius in their own right. Vegeta’s polished and tactical strategies vs. Goku’s out-of-the box techniques that keep even the most dangerous opponents on their toes.

screenshot_301

Imagine a Gogeta or Vegito that is made up of a Goku and Vegeta that have trained/sparred together for YEARS! I think it is obvious that fusion would be a true blend on even terms of Goku’s relaxed nature and Vegeta’s tense demeanor.

4595745-whis_rof

Whis would be in for one heck of a fight if you ask me!

3 years is a long time, and the Saiyans know how to improve their skills in a short period of time. Just thinking about how much they could have advanced in 3 years is just unbelievable. I wonder if there are any of the Universe 6 opponents who are near the level of Goku and Vegeta now.

Universe-6-vs-Universe-7-dragon-ball-super-fighters

Do you think that Goku and Vegeta have surpassed Beerus? Did they reach a new transformation or fuse in the Time Chamber? Will there be anyone from Universe 6 that can truly give them a challenge?

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

Advertisements

Dragon Ball Super: Will Vegeta Skip Super Saiyan God?

By Jeremy Carden

Vegeta_training2

The Saiyan Prince has once again vowed to surpass the Super Saiyan God Goku by following his own path to the level of god.

While some fans have dismissed Vegeta’s attempts to surpass Goku as nothing more than the hotheaded Saiyan once again biting off more than he can chew, I think there is more to it that than.

Yes, I am a HUGE Vegeta fan. Honestly, he is my favorite character in the entire Dragon Ball franchise. However, I am not writing this as a Vegeta fanboy without using some details and information from the series to back up my theory.

qvrhn5b

Please keep in mind that I am simply a DB fan writing on the subject of Vegeta POSSIBLY obtaining “Super Saiyan Blue” without going Super Saiyan God.

Furious_Mutation

DB Wiki (a website that can be edited by fans meaning that any information from it can be taken with a grain of salt) has dubbed Vegeta’s transformation/power-up against Beerus as “Furious Mutation.”

It is described as follows:

Upon being overcome by an extreme rage, the user powers up into their strongest form, however their power skyrockets even further than usual, temporarily blanking out their eyes. In this state, both his skin and body turns with a slight pink tone and blue bolts surround him. Even when the user calms down after using the power-up, the power boost remains.

fITbwWG

Overall, Vegeta lost it after seeing Beerus slap Bulma which caused him to snap.

Maximum_Flasher

This is similar to his assault against Super Perfect Cell after he killed Future Trunks right in front of his eyes.

The key difference here is that even after calming down after his hissy fit (blasting Cell with dozens of ki blasts); Vegeta’s power during his rampaging moment was not sustained.

GohanPunchingFriezaInTheFace

Vegeta’s moment of rage was very similar to Gohan’s outburst during the DB series. He would go into a fit of rage whenever he was pushed into a corner, or if someone close to him was hurt by a villain.

From being smacked around with ease to beating the hell out of his opponent, Gohan’s power soared to new heights. However, that power would disappear when he calmed down.

Unlike his past moments of rage, Vegeta had gained a grasp on his enraged power during the Battle of Gods arc.

After the battle with Beerus, Vegeta’s Super Saiyan 2 power had increased from the “Furious Mutation.” He still had access to the power in that state, and was working to increase it even further.

Vegeta_training1

During episode 16, Vegeta was training alone on a mountain or in the middle of a wasteland. He was seen standing in the rain, and then began powering up when the sun came out.

It was almost as if he was trying to tap into the power he had used against Beerus, and from there take it to the next level.

USER_Vegeta_Super_Saiyan_3

Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta perhaps?

Maybe, but sadly I doubt that because of the serious drawbacks that Super Saiyan 3 has when compared to the god level transformations.

In any case, I will say that a Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta would NOT be someone to take lightly.

tumblr_n804qked791qfbz1so1_500

Considering the fact that Furious Mutation Vegeta was mentioned to be more powerful than SS3 Goku was (prior to ascending to god level), SS3 Vegeta would a lot stronger than SS3 Goku!

Let’s say that after mastering the Furious Mutation (which made SS2 Vegeta more powerful than SS3 Goku), Vegeta finally goes SS3. That would increase his power Super Saiyan 2 power by 4 making him over 4 times more powerful than SS3 Goku was!

Again, this is just an interesting speculation in terms of Vegeta surpassing Goku.

maxresdefault

Getting back to the true subject of this blog, I think a couple of questions have been raised about Vegeta’s ascension to the level of god. These are the 2 questions to keep in mind:

  1. Can Vegeta skip Super Saiyan God in order to obtain Super Saiyan Blue?
  2. Will Vegeta skip Super Saiyan God in order to obtain Super Saiyan Blue?

It would not surprise me if Vegeta WILL skip SS God in order to get to SS Blue. However, I am not 100% sure if he CAN skip SS God in order to get to SS Blue.

th

Saiyan beyond God is the middle form between Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue.

After a Saiyan that has obtained Super Saiyan God reverts back to base form after the god transformation’s time limit runs out, their body can absorb that godly realm of power. This results in the Saiyan’s base form being on a similar level of power as a SS God.

Then if the Saiyan can truly master the power of SS God in the Saiyan beyond God form, going Super Saiyan allows the user to add godly ki to the transformation.

super_saiyan_god_super_saiyan_vegeta_by_moxie2d-d8p5oi6

Meaning that Super Saiyan Blue is a regular Super Saiyan transformation, but it has the presence of godly ki. Keep in mind, the Saiyan is NOT 100% god or 100% Saiyan.

It is almost like a Saiyan-God hybrid of sorts, but it is a powerful transformation without the time limit of SS God.

DBSuper_ep16_10

Whis told Vegeta that if he learned to control his ki, he could potentially be able to surpass Goku.

Personally, I did not truly understand what Whis meant by that. Was he saying that a Saiyan with ki control could surpass a Saiyan at the god level?

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t Goku and Gohan learn about ki control during the Cell Games arc?

goku_and_gohan_3

During their training in the Time Chamber, they learned to master the Super Saiyan transformation. This allowed them to control their ki output and maintain their base form personality traits even while transformed as Full Power Super Saiyans.

Dragonball Super episode 16

Vegeta never trained under the same methods as Goku and Gohan. That was why he had trouble cracking an egg due to using too much force.

GohanBreakingAGlass

This was very similar to Goku and Gohan trying to hold glass cups during their downtime before the battle with Cell.

Will Vegeta’s training with Whis be similar to Goku and Gohan’s training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber? Basically, they maintained the regular Super Saiyan transformation as long as they could until it felt normal (their new base form).

dbs-goku-and-whis

I’m hoping that in the next episode, we get to see flashbacks of some of Vegeta’s training. He has been on Beerus’ planet for 6 months, and Whis thought it was the perfect time for Goku to travel there as well.

This could hint at Vegeta being near Goku’s power, but the way he achieved that power has yet to be revealed.

dragon-ball-super-episode-18-i-ve-come-too-training-begins-on-beerus-planet

We do see Vegeta and Goku doing basic chores to help maintain the upkeep of the area where Beerus sleeps.

Milktraining

After watching those scenes, it reminded me of Goku and Krillin doing chores like delivering milk along with farm work while training under Master Roshi.

If I were to make a semi-educated guess on Vegeta bypassing SS God to obtain SS Blue, I would say that the Saiyans participating in the SS God ritual got a small taste of god power themselves.

Making the God

I mean they are transferring their ki into one Saiyan in order for the Saiyan to reach SS God.

6b8067887decc8381f49e3f812a6c3c0

Who is to say some of that godly ki isn’t transferred through all of the participants in the ritual, but only one truly ascends to the SS God level?

That explanation is the only one that I can think of that would actually make some sense as to how Vegeta could skip the SS God transformation in order to get to SS Blue.

VegetaSS4

If Vegeta does skip SS God, I think that would be cool because it shows that he wants to surpass Goku, but he will do it on his own. That would be an interesting change of pace from DBGT where he had to rely on Bulma’s Blutz Waves device in order to become SS4 in order to help close the gap between himself and Goku.

49f

Whis could be training him to master his own ki, and the “sample” of godly ki that was given to him through the SS God ritual for Goku. This is what could allow Vegeta to go SS Blue which is a blending of Super Saiyan and godly ki.

15 - 4

What do you think? I would love to hear your thoughts in the comment section below.

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

Tyler Perry’s The Haves and the Have Nots Theory: Is Hanna a Good Christian?

By Jeremy Carden

11907208_914450651960723_2040476160599964211_n

Is it just me or is it getting too darn hot in here? Yeah, I know I’m going to catch a lot of heat for this blog…

Honestly, I’ve wanted to write this blog since the first few episodes of Season 3. However, I felt that it was important to wait for the entire season to end before working on this. For the sake of character development, I placed this topic on my to-do-list after the finale aired.

hannah_haves_summer_bible-592x330

One of the biggest debates going on between HAHN fans is about the type of Christian that Hanna really is. Does she represent a real Christian woman, or is she simply a Bible-carrying hypocrite?

Before I move to the next section of the blog, I want you to take a few minutes to watch the video below:

It illustrates the kind of “Christian” that Tyler Perry wrote for the series, and the role that Crystal Fox has been bringing to life onscreen.

ep119-own-hhn-4-365x240

Do I think that Hanna is a good Christian?

I think that Hanna IS a Christian. Who am I to judge Hanna on whether or not she is a good Christian?

The only person who can truly judge on her being a good or bad Christian is God!

Like everyone who has ever lived, Hanna has some things about her past that she is not proud of. She lived a life that was not pleasing to God. We do not know a lot about her pre-Christian life, but we know that she was very similar to the way that Candace is now.

iuuio

Benny and Candace have different fathers, and Hanna used to run around with a lot of men (some married). At one point, one of these “boyfriends” raped Candace when she was a little girl (I think she was 5).

After that dramatic event, Candace began to change into the woman that she is today.  Hanna said that Candace was ashamed of her for being a maid, took her income tax money one year to buy a laptop and began lying to her about everything.

Then Candace was nearly killed by a pimp, and after taking her daughter back into her home; the Young family was threatened by that pimp because he said he would kill them all. However, this unnamed pimp was eventually killed himself before coming after Candace and her family.

11880626_10204917851572663_1569380142509859390_n

Moving forward, Candace got together with Quincy and had a baby. Hanna took care of the child for 2 years, but Candace came to take back her son. She was then tricked by Quincy into thinking that paying him $50,000 would be the “price” needed for her to leave him for good with her son.

She gave him the money, but was told that on a fishing trip; Quincy threw their son into the river which resulted in him being killed.

Screenshot_2

Of course, we know that Quincy nearly beat her to death because Benny went to pick her up. However, she was beaten beyond recognition to the point that he walked past her when he arrived to get her. That led to Benny foreclosing on Hanna’s house for the $50,000 to give to Candace, and the doctor bills that she needed after recovering from her assault.

One of the few other things that we know about Hanna’s pre-HAHN life was that she had a sister who died from a drug overdose.

Screenshotiopipo

What does any of this have to do with Hanna’s Christianity and faith?

It is important to cover her past, the present (what we’ve seen in HAHN Seasons 1-3) and her possible future.

Hanna is a human being just like the rest of us! For any readers who are Christians (like myself), it is important to realize that there is a never-ending struggle between balancing faith and human nature.

Screenshot_25

If Crystal Fox is reading this, I want her to know that she is OWN-ing (pun intended) the role of Hanna! As she stated in the video, she did not have any intention of trying to play a perfect Christian, and I think she is bringing the role to life.

I am writing a detailed blog about a fictional character, and that goes to show the incredible talent that goes into the HAHN. The cast and Tyler Perry truly bring these characters to life.

With that being said, let’s take a look at Hanna’s development from Episode 1 to the finale of Season 3. Strap yourselves in because we have A LOT of ground to cover. Speaking of humanity, I am a human myself. If there are any important events or scenes that I overlook (not purposefully), you can inform me in the comment section below.

130903mag-crystal-fox1

Season 1, we quickly see that Hanna is a trustworthy woman. She is aware of who she is, where she came from and her faith in God. It is clear that Benny is her baby, but Candace is like the child that she failed with.

Hanna is a very independent woman, and her house is clear evidence of that fact. You could tell that her life (after becoming a Christian trying to make an honest living) was spent working to pay it off. That was why she was so hurt when she found out that Benny foreclosed it, and then when it was destroyed by Quincy.

Overall, she is a hardworking woman that wants to make an honest living. Even by being a maid, she is cheerful about what she has even if it does make her a “Have Not.”

katandhannabond_zps0141d050

She was the first person to truly show Katheryn Cryer what it was like to have a true friend. Hanna’s faith and friendship were the reasons why Katheryn was able to make it through her battle with cancer.

ep115-own-hhn-10-365x240

After Benny was placed in jail under false pretenses (everything planned out by David and his detective), Katheryn was able to get Veronica to assist Hanna. During this time, there was a real strain that widen the gap between Hanna and Candace. She wanted her daughter to tell the truth because Benny was caught in a bind due to her own deceptive ways!

ep110-own-hhn-5-600x411

The scene with Hanna praying with David has to be one of the most powerful moments in Season 1! That proved to David that Hanna was NOT planning on destroying the Cryers from the inside out with Candace’s assistance!

Similar to Candace, Hanna did not have a good relationship with Veronica. She pretty much turned her nose up at the maid, and Hanna was not a fan of her uppity attitude. Thankfully, the two appeared to be in a better place after Veronica got Benny out of jail. Wow, I’m glad that was worked out! Hopefully, knowing ruins this new found mutual respect between these two strong black women of different social statuses!

 

io;iop

Oh wait…

ep107-own-hhn-6-600x411

Despite being a maid, Hanna really cared about the well being of Amanda and Wyatt. This was shown when she was concerned about Amanda when she was in the hospital, and when Wyatt almost tricked her into getting drugs for him.

Screenshot_4

Season 1 was a good way of setting up who Hanna is as a mother, friend, Christian and person. She has her shortcomings (but who doesn’t?), but does not allow them to get in the way of who she is.

2na02a1

Now, I will get into Season 2! Throughout this season, Hanna is basically discovering that those close to her are not people she can fully trust. I will get into her interactions with Tony and Celine because they are prime candidates for this subject!

Tony-step-up-500

During Season 1, we learned that Tony is Benny’s deadbeat father. Hanna was not mincing words with the man, and it was clear that there was no love lost between these 2. There was almost a connection between them when he said that he could somehow assist Benny with getting out of jail because he was railroaded.

What could have been a positive turn for his relationship with Benny and Hanna, it is later discovered that he only wanted to be a part of Benny’s life in order to find out if he would be the right donor for him to get a new kidney.

ep123-own-hhn-2-600x411

His selfish side came out even more when he wanted Benny taken off of life support in order to obtain a kidney. Then with him taking Hanna to court in the midst of her grief over Benny, and then putting her in jail because it was assumed that she hid Benny; Tony ruined any chances of getting connected with the Youngs.

Not to mention that he lied to Benny’s face about why he wanted him taken off of life support. I do not believe that we have seen the last of Tony, but as far as Hanna is concerned; it wouldn’t matter to her if she never saw him again.

ep210-own-hhn-6-949x534

It really hurts me to go into Hanna’s friendship with Celine. Their “is proof that you cannot call everyone a friend, and those close to you might end up giving you a colder shoulder than wearing a short sleeve shirt in the wintertime!

The two have known each other for a couple of years, and they seemed to help each other in difficult times. However, when Hanna cleaned Jim’s shoes…we learned that Celine was very territorial of him for some reason.

From that point on, there was tension between the two because Katheryn was giving Hanna the attention that she never received from her. It was truly every maid for herself once Hanna was given the position head of staff position within the Cryer Mansion.

4so395

The climax of their tension was when Hanna and Celine got into a catfight!

Hanna’s only friend at that point was Katheryn, and their friendship was tested after she learned that Wyatt was the one to hit Benny. Then with Jim trying to make Hanna think that she was crazy by saying that she did not hear what Wyatt said after he came home high, Hanna was through with the Cryers.

haves2

Things took an even darker turn when Hanna told the police that Wyatt hit Benny and Little Lizzie. Even though Katheryn moved Benny to a private hospital and got Hanna out of jail; Wyatt was arrested and the two friends were once again at a crossroad.

It was great to see the two rekindle their friendship towards the end of the season when Katheryn offered Hanna her job back!

ep130-own-hhn-3-949x534

Hanna was overjoyed when Benny was released from the hospital (despite some personality defects that have yet to be addressed), and her baby was home once again.

We see Hanna get into a love triangle of sorts with Byron and Michael. Byron was a detective hired by Jim to watch Hanna, and to see if she would drop dime on Wyatt. It was sad to see the two get so close, but then he ended up betraying Hanna.

ep131-own-hhn-5-949x534

The other sad thing to witness was that Hanna pushed away a good man (Michael), but was letting the snake in the grass (Byron) get close to her.

Screenshot_14

Once Quincy was released from prison, Hanna was assaulted by the evil brought into her home by Candace. This caused even more tension between her and Candace because Candy Cane was the reason he came to her house in the first place!

zap-the-haves-and-the-have-nots-season-2-photo-002

Overall, I think that Season 1 established that Hanna was a woman of faith. Season 2 was a true test of that faith.

You have to think about Hanna literally having everyone in her life betraying her or using her in some way. Then Benny was on the brink of death for nearly the entire season, and he was the only good thing about her life.

I feel that this season showed that Hanna is a Christian, and even though she knows that God knows best; understanding why He does what He does is not always an easy task.

Screenshot_6

She really felt alone during this season without letting anyone assist her (except Byron), and even when Candace tried to lend a helping hand it was a tense situation. It truly was a good buildup for the Hanna that we see in next season.

Screenshot_2

Finally, we get to Season 3! The opening scene of the season was Benny’s “Welcome Home” celebration. Fans were outraged to see Hanna (a Christian who was drinking and dancing the night away) during the first 5 minutes after the opening credits!

Personally, I had no problem with her drinking a couple of beers and having a good time. Seriously, this was one of the first times that we’ve seen a smile on the woman’s face since Season 1!!!

the-haves-and-the-have-nots_1_29_640x480_5390395330286

After everything that she went through in Season 2, Hanna deserved to relax, have fun and enjoy herself for just one night!

There was one particular moment during the episode that had me curious. It was when she told a saddened Michael to relax and enjoy the celebration of her son’s return home. The only reason I was puzzled during this scene was because of a what-if scenario.

What if…Michael’s granddaughter was the one who lived, but Benny was the one who died? Let’s say Michael held a party for Little Lizzie’s return home, and he invited Hanna to come to the festivities? Would she be able to lighten up and have a good time despite her grief?

ep213-own-hhn-6-949x534

My guess is no given how she was acting when she thought Benny was going to die. To be fair, she was living in a reality with all of her “friends” using, lying or betraying her in some way.

One of the biggest events of the early episodes of Season 3 involving Hanna’s character was her almost having sex with a drunken Michael; she was about to go all the way until Benny walked in on them.

Was she in the wrong?

Again, she is a human and she even pointed out to Michael that she would have given into the flesh if Benny had not walked in on them. Most fans call Hanna a hypocrite for shaming Benny for his sexual encounters with Veronica.

Seriously, I’m not making excuses for what Hanna ALMOST did with Michael. However, the circumstances were different!

Screenshot_22

Benny was having sex with a married woman! Yeah, I know the Ice Queen is old enough to be his mother, but age is just a number…

I will get more into Hanna’s speech to Michael after Benny walked in on them later in the blog because it really falls in line with what I have to say about Candace.

Later on in the season, Hanna tells Michael that she can’t see him for awhile. It is just until she gets right with herself (and God) after what they almost did. She was not in a place where she could handle being in a relationship or being “friends with benefits.”

In hindsight, I think that she was pushing away a good man. However, I give Hanna props for being honest with Michael AND herself. There was no need in pursuing a relationship if she would not be able to give it her all. Her mind was truly distracted with Benny and her missing grandson.

Screenshot_8

Moving away from the Young household, Hanna’s next form of development came after discovering Amanda’s dead body. She was there for the Cryers when they needed it the most. Hanna was a true friend to Katheryn, and was there by her side from the time she walked through the door until she was allowed to go home after the police were there.

If anything, she is one of the few people who can calm down both Wyatt and Jim! I went into this in another blog, but the scene between her and Jim was one of the highlights of Season 3. Her Christianity truly showed when she comforted Jim after he told her to leave his house after she got a cleaning crew to cleanse Amanda’s room.

I really don’t have much to say here other than Hanna bringing God into the Cryer house when they needed it the most.

Katheryn’s trip to Hanna’s house was another great scene that shows Hanna being there for her friend when she needed it the most. She truly is the glue that helps to keep the Cryer family together.

Screenshot_6

I guess you can say that the next highlight of Hanna’s character development was when she went to Candace’s hotel room with Benny. This scene was when it was revealed to Benny (and the viewers) about what happened when Candace was molested by one of Hanna’s boyfriends.

Screenshot_8

Honestly, I think this was the climax of Hanna’s character development in terms of her relationship with Candace (before her grandchild was brought into the show). She told her that she did not approve of what she was doing with her life, and it would all end to a dead end. Hanna knew that all of Candace’s wealth came from ill-gotten funds.

Of course she was right, but she loves her daughter! That hug she gave Candace was real, and for Candace to breakdown into tears was a sight to see! To be fair, Candace was shocked by her mother’s words and actions.

I could see where this was coming from because the only other times that she lifted a finger to Candace was to slap her.

ep124-own-hhn-10-949x534

That scene to me was Hanna saying that despite your sinful ways, I love you more than you know. She feels that Candace can become a good person, and after seeing her battle Tony in the courtroom for Benny’s life; Candace has the skills to do some real good!

Moving a bit further towards the end of the finale, I feel like Hanna kind of contradicted this powerful scene. I think that Hanna jumping to the conclusion that Candace was the reason behind her house being destroyed was just a major step backwards from what we saw in the hotel room.

Screenshot_21

It is hard to believe that she loves her daughter when she instantly assumes the WORST about Candace. Seriously, go back and watch the episode before the finale along with the first 10 minutes of the finale. Hanna jumps down on Candace extremely hard, and I really did feel sorry for her.

The downside was that Candace was telling half-truths to Benny and Hanna about everything that she had recently acquired. She was telling the truth about being legit when it came to the subject of paying for the houses, car(s) and Tow Company.

screenshot_6

However, she refused to tell how she came into her money…

Hanna did not mince words when it came to the subject of Candace getting her a car, and knowing that she would not accept it by giving it to her personally. That was why she had Erica sell it to Benny, and he gave it to Hanna.

She was not buying it, but for once…Candace was thinking of her mom. That was a truly sweet sentiment, but how she got the money for the vehicle was not.

After discovering that Candace has no money, Hanna and Benny left Candace to her own devices. We then see Hanna refuse to stay in a house that she knew was not bought by ill-gotten money.

Overall, we saw Hanna take the highroad by stating that she loved her daughter no matter how. However, I feel like she backtracked during the last few episodes of Season 3.

Screenshot_11

You must admit that despite everything, Hanna will not tolerate anyone mistreating her child. Remember that she put her foot down when she discovered Candace being held hostage by the Cryers. Candace seems to be the fork in the road when it comes to her friendship with Katheryn.

Funny how some fans view Hanna’s refusal of anyone else hurting her child, but she lays her hands on her when she chooses (mostly through physical hits). Finding a black woman who has never struck her child is like trying to find a woman that Jim has not slept with…

hannah-qunicy-hahn

The final subject of this blog is going to cover Hanna and Quincy Jr. It goes without saying that Hanna is the BEST person to take care of him, and I know that subject has caused a rift between HAHN fans.

I’ve said it on Twitter, multiple blogs and Facebook posts; Hanna IS a better “mother” than Candace.

Hear me out, Hanna has made mistakes and is somewhat responsible for how Candace turned out. However, Candace IS capable of becoming a good person. Just as Hanna did, Candace can change her life around for the better. Hanna pointed out multiple times that Candace has not had that “awakening moment” in her life that will make her give herself to Christ.

ep101-own-hhn-11-600x411

This is one of the primary reasons that there is a rift between her and Candace. If you ask me, Hanna is somewhat haunted by Candace. Her daughter is pretty much the living embodiment of Hanna’s past life, and looking at Candace must be like looking at past self in a mirror.

ep203-own-hhn-2-949x534

Candace’s presence makes Veronica’s skin crawl because of the same reason. The two are more alike than they would care to admit, and Candace is the “Have Not” version of Veronica when you compare the two.

I honestly do not feel that I need to go into a full explanation of why Hanna is the better caretaker for Quincy Jr. because I have stated it in past blogs.

Screenshot_17

The bottom line is this: Candace knew that her son was alive, but instead of looking for him with her many contacts, she was living it up in New York with Oscar!

Just that one statement alone should tell you where her true allegiance lies; with herself! Again, I do think that she has the potential to become a loving mother, and a good person. However, that has not happened yet…

During the “Quincy Jr. Saga”, Hanna’s character was a bit strained in terms of her doing some lowdown things in her favor. Things like getting Aaliyah the social services worker to bend the rules in order to increase her chances of getting her grandson. I mean the woman almost lost her job because of Hanna.

Not to mention, Hanna was quick to tell her about Candace’s evil ways. I mean that was a mother talking bad about her child, BUT you have to realize that it was done with Quincy Jr. in mind.

11863266_10204920113469209_613813163746399775_n

Given the circumstances, I can see why she did what she did. The last time Candace took him away, he was being abused! As the doctor stated, if Benny had not brought him to the hospital when he did…he might have died from his wounds being infected!

Some fans did bring up a good point about Hanna having Quincy Jr. would have been no better than Quincy having him. The reason behind that is Quincy made their son think that Candy Cane didn’t want anything to do with him. Hanna might have done something similar in terms of keeping him away from Candace.

I can see where the fans are coming from because in either scenario, Candace would have still been separated from her son. However, I think that after Hanna saw a true change in her daughter, she would have allowed her back into Quincy Jr.’s life.

Screenshot_12

My biggest concern is her house being destroyed, and a sight visit is fast approaching! I wonder how Hanna is going to get out of this mess!

In the end, Hanna reminds me of my own mother in some ways. She is a strong black woman with a fear of God in her heart. However, she is also a parent (a black mother!) and she does not mess around!

If you ask me, she IS a Christian in my book! However, she is rough around the edges like a lot of people. She has her faults, but who doesn’t?

Screenshot_25

Do you think that she is a Christian or a hypocrite?

Like what you read? Then be sure to follow me on Twitter (@jccarden) because on Tuesday nights at 9 PM I’m on there tweeting during each new episode of the #HAHN! I also have a Facebook page dedicated to my blog posts and HAHN memes as well! Also follow my blog so you can enjoy my new articles when they are posted. 

 

Dragon Ball Super: Will Goku and Vegeta Fuse?

By Jeremy Carden

2015-07-03-db-super-twitter-02

After watching Revival of F, I have a very strong hunch that Dragon Ball fans will once again see a Goku/Vegeta fusion!

2d9473b9cbfbab2ca1942d1f6dbe00c2e9c98a1602cca480e5899e871fd99ce3_large

If you ask me, I think that Whis’ main goal in training the Saiyan duo is not only to help them perfect their fighting abilities as individuals, but to also make them understand that they need to learn how to work together.

tumblr_m07v7rjuZI1qfbz1so1_500

Whis pointed out that Vegeta is too tense and Goku is too carefree. The two are practically opposing opposites when it comes to fighting. Vegeta is the more brilliant fighter, but Goku is better when it comes to off the wall combat (a good fighter that does not go by the books, he is better at overcoming obstacles by thinking outside of the box).

I mean if you look at the times when the two actually worked together to defeat the odds, you have to admit that they make a very potent combo!

For a moment, forget about what is canon and what is non-canon. Think back to some epic moments within the Dragon Ball franchise when these Saiyans actually teamed up.

tumblr_np8omgaupv1usfkfyo1_500

The Return of Cooler was a movie where neither Saiyan could take Cooler on in his new form.

Goku_and_Vegeta_Destroying_A_Cooler_Clone_(Return_of_Cooler)

When they put aside their differences, the team destroyed 1 Meta-Cooler robot (before 1,000 showed up). In the end, they overpowered the Big Gete Star achieving victory!

maxresdefault (2)

In the anime-only battle with Buuhan, each Saiyan was getting wrecked by the “mightiest Majin.”

Bscap03156

Goku convinced Vegeta to use the Potara Earrings in order to save the universe, and Vegito was beating around Buu with ease!

Janemba_Dimension_Sword

How about when Super Janemba was able to defeat Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta?

photo-6351

They ended up creating Gogeta in order to send that demon back into oblivion!

maxresdefault

Finally, the threat of Omega Shenron proved too great for even a couple of Super Saiyan 4s to stop!

Bscap0041

Once again, fusion created Gogeta to stop another threat to the universe (though this time around; Gogeta did not get the job done…).

My point is that Goku and Vegeta are extremely powerful as individuals, but working together has proven that the two can overcome almost any obstacle in their way.

Dragon-Ball-Z-image-dragon-ball-z-36230703-500-279

I think Goku said it best when he was describing the Fusion Dance back during the Buu Saga. He said that a being created from the fusion would be capable of accomplishing feats that neither individual could do alone.

Don’t you think that Vegito and Gogeta fit that description perfectly? I mean whenever the Saiyans fused, it was because they realized that they did not stand a chance of winning against their opponent at the time as individuals. They had no other option but to fuse in order to defeat the odds with overwhelming power!

Now the question remains as to whether or not Goku and Vegeta will actually fuse in the Dragon Ball Super series.

th

Originally, I thought that if there was a movie to follow Revival of F; the two would fuse again. You have to admit that the movie itself seemed like a setup in order for the Saiyans to realize that they need to work together in order to achieve the best results.

I mean they fought against each other instead of fighting together against Frieza, and the entire world was destroyed (until Whis reversed time) due to their unwillingness to work as a team!

At the end of the film, Goku mentioned that their battle with Frieza was proof that Whis was correct when he said that they should work together more. However, Vegeta scoffed at the remark about them working together. With laughter, Goku agreed that it would never happen.

Is that right?

Lady_Whis_and_Champa

Considering that Champa, Universe 6 and the Super Dragon Balls will appear in the DB Super anime/manga; I think the two WILL fuse again!

Why?

4486126-dragon-ball-z-2015-movie-screenshot-12

With 11 other universes out there that contain beings more powerful than Beerus AND Whis, the Saiyans will eventually come across opponent(s) too powerful for them to defeat alone.

Fusion would be their only option, and it will be their trump card in order to win against their foes.

maxresdefault

As I mentioned in another blog about Gogeta appearing within the DB Super series, I think that the two fusing would be their completion of their training under Whis.

tumblr_m81viyzZx11r72ht7o3_500

I feel this way because as I mentioned above, Whis is teaching the two how to overcome their individual weaknesses, and to also work together as a team.

Beerus-Whis

Considering that Lord Beerus could be defeated if the two worked together (Whis mentioned this), I think Goku and Vegeta teaming up would be a threat to even gods more powerful than Beerus from some of the other universes!

Whis seeing the two truly working together would be the icing on the cake (because we know how Whis and Beerus love to eat) to their training.

Fans are split as to which fusion would actually appear within the DB Super series. Some say that Gogeta will finally make an appearance, and others are strongly behind Vegito reappearing.

hqdefault

The thing that gets me is when fans say that Gogeta CAN’T appear because he is NOT considered canon. Personally, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. True, his appearance in GT and Fusion Reborn were considered my most to be non-canon. However, the Fusion Dance itself IS canon because the technique appearance in the anime and manga.

Goku knows about the dance, and he would show it to Vegeta if necessary for them to actually fuse against an opponent. Of course, I am sure that he would object to it because of the prissy movements needed to execute the technique. He did perform an embarrassing bingo dance to save the planet from destruction. What harm could performing one little ballet dance (Fusion Dance) do?

tumblr_nqc2cattKm1r3dlhmo1_1280

Think about how upset he was when he had to hold hands with Goku in order to teleport to earth using Instant Transmission! Although, I thought he could have just placed his hand on Goku’s shoulder or something, but I guess the writers wanted to make that scene as awkward as they possibly could.

In my opinion, I believe that Gogeta will be the one who appears in the DB Super series if the Saiyans ever fused.

Why?

Vegettogokuand-Vegeta

Do you really believe that Vegeta or Goku would want to do a permanent fusion (again)?

The only reason Vegito split was because of Buu’s digestive system breaking the Potara Fusion apart.

Super_Vegito_charging_the_Big_Bang_Attack.

In Battle of Gods, Revival of F and DB Super Episode 5, whenever fusion was mentioned it was a reference to Vegito NOT Gogeta. This is because Vegito was the only fusion between the two to appear in both the anime and manga.

Unless we see Vegito from one of the other 11 universes, I do not think that he will appear again. Perhaps there is another universe where they used the Potara Fusion, but for whatever reason they did not split apart.

tumblr_m9dz0trf3Z1qzhaeno1_500

This is what happened in the DB Multiverse series because there was a universe where Vegito did not remove the barrier protecting him within Buu’s body. After escaping with the absorbed Z-Fighters, Vegito killed Kid Buu (and the fusion stayed intact).

I know that DB Super is changing some of the events of Battle of Gods/Revival of F, but it is still unknown whether or not the ending of DBZ anime/manga will be kept the same. I am not just referring to Uub appearing and then leaving to train with Goku.

Goku_and_Vegeta_enddbz

I am talking about Goku and Vegeta not being fused into Vegito because we see them as two individual Saiyans.

That is why I feel that if they do fuse, Goku and Vegeta would use the Fusion Dance to become Gogeta.

SupremeKais

Who is to say that the Kais couldn’t make special Potara Earrings that would allow a temporary fusion?

However, that would be like opening a can of worms in order to make Vegito show up again.

WhisTalkingToBills(BoG)

Another possibly is that Whis (or another being) knows of a fusion technique that we have never seen before! There really is no clear understanding on where the story of DB Super is going because it has just started. I am really excited because of the revival of the DB franchise as a whole, and anything can happen!

tumblr_n0dkkiddII1rpr5lvo1_500

I could care less about which fusion appears because I love both Gogeta and Vegito. The one thing that I want to see more than anything is an opponent that makes a Goku/Vegeta fusion actually HAVE to use their full power!

Remember that Super Gogeta, Super Vegito and Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta dominated their opponents with ease. We never got to see the full extent of their power, and that is something that a lot of fans would want to see at some point.

giphy

Can you imagine the power and techniques utilized by a full power Gogeta or Vegito? It makes me excited because any awesome techniques from the series are almost always put into DBZ video games. Not to mention the possibility of a new Super Saiyan level!

images

Which fusion do you think will appear in the future; Gogeta, Vegito or someone entirely new?

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

Dragon Ball Super: When Will The Series Take Place?

By Jeremy Carden

LLnOJAC

With all of the leaked information about the new series, fans are very confused about when the series will take place. Originally, it was believed that Dragon Ball Super would take place after the events of Revival of Frieza.

Wiss&BillsOnKaiokai

However, with recent pictures and chapters from the DB Super manga, it appears that this is not the case. Fans are even speculating that DB Super will erase Battle of Gods and Revival of Frieza off of the map due to an inconsistency involving Beerus and his premonition of a Super Saiyan God!

Again, this is all speculation, and this blog is going to cover my own personal thoughts as to when this series will take place. Not only that, I will mention my own opinions on where the series will go. We do know that it is going to be at least 100 episodes, and possibly more depending on how well it is received by fans.

SSGvsB

Overall, I feel that this series will recap the events that occurred between the defeat of Kid Buu and the movie Battle of Gods. From there, it will cover the events between Battle of Gods and Revival of Frieza.

Afterwards, it will cover the events between Revival of Frieza and Goku leaving the 28th World Tournament with Uub.

What I would love to see is the series going even beyond that like GT did!

Vegeta_and_Tarble

Something that could really throw things into perspective is the special released in Japan called “Yo! Son Goku and his friends return!” This is the anime special that introduced us to Vegeta’s brother named Tarble.

Here is what the time frame between Kid Buu’s death and Uub leaving with Goku looks like based on the original dates given in the Japanese version:

  • The short film about Tarble took place 2 years after the defeat of Kid Buu
  • Battle of Gods took place 2 years after “Yo! Son Goku”
  • Revival of Frieza occurred 1 year after Battle of Gods

This means that there are still 5 years for the writers to play around with before the anime episode called “Granddaughter Pan.” In this episode, we see the series fast forward 10 years from the death of Kid Buu.

1232230174649_f

In the end, the biggest question raised by fans is whether or not the ending of DB Super will stay true to the original ending of DBZ. Goku leaving with Uub occurs 10 years after the defeat of Kid Buu.

Let’s say that DB Super, Revival of F and Battle of Gods fit into the continuity of events that leads up to Goku vs. Uub. Re-watching that fight, it is amazing to believe that young Uub is holding his own with Goku (who by that time had achieved Super Saiyan God, Saiyan beyond God, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and possibly even more power!)!

However, keep in mind that Goku was clearly holding back in that fight in order to test Uub’s abilities.

-Tien-Shinhan-dragon-ball-z-35870458-500-271

Not to mention that similar to Tien’s Neo-Tri Beam against Semi-Perfect Cell, he was putting up an impressive feat by holding back Cell, but that was all he was doing. He wasn’t damaging Cell, but he was holding him off from absorbing #18.

IMG_4196

I think the same can be said about Uub during his fight with Goku because the Majin-turned-human was putting up a good fight, but it was clear that the only damage he inflicted on Goku was on his clothes!

Well, at the beginning of the fight he did make Goku’s arm tingle with a fierce kick. However, Goku underestimated Uub’s power, and remember Whis told him that letting his guard down makes even a body as powerful as his susceptible to damage from weaker opponents.

Jq7ChEx

Sorbet’s Ring Laser proved that point to be true when he pierced Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku’s heart!

Goku_and_uub_final

I actually think that Goku leaving with Uub would be even more touching since Whis (the Supreme Being) in Universe 7 ended up training a low-class Saiyan to become one of the best in the universe. This is like Goku sharing his skills with a young Indian boy from a poor village. The most unlikely people ended up learning from the best in the universe!

goku_uub_training_dbm_by_bk_81-d3jb4ku

However, I would still like DB Super to possibly continue even after Goku leaves with Uub so we can see what happens next!

GohanKicking

When you think about it, 5 years in DB time is not really that much. Keep in mind that the 3 years of training for the battle with the Androids was shown in a couple of episodes, but “skipped” in a single episode! Compare that to the “5 minutes” for Namek to explode, and that was stretched out for around a dozen episodes…

DB Super is going to be doing some obvious time jumps, but I think it will be worth it. I am one of those fans that love to see things being covered and explained instead of skipped over.

Gohan_and_Videl_married

Ever since I saw the picture of Gohan and Videl on their wedding day in Granddaughter Pan, I wanted to see those two being hitched! In the first episode of the new series, we learn that Goten is going to be looking for a gift because his brother’s wedding is happening soon.

10385757467a12352036525l

Based on Goku’s outfit while he is farming, I have a suspicion that Tarble will appear, and then we will jump to the events post-Battle of Gods. In the leaked manga chapter, we see Goku farming, Mr. Satan arriving with 100 million zeni for him, and Goku telling Goten that he wishes he could train with King Kai.

pVwqnFg (1)

In the Tarble special, Goku asks Chi-Chi why they have to farm despite the fact that Mr. Satan had given them a ton of money. His wife explains that despite the money, they should still work to earn their own form of financial stability. I find that interesting because it was Goku who fought to save the universe from Buu (along with help from his friends of course), and Mr. Satan was returning the favor because he thought Goku deserved something out of it!

Also in the special, Mr. Satan invites all of the Z-Fighters to his new hotel opening in honor of him defeating Buu. Here is where we reach a form of contradiction from the main series.

Celebrations_with_Majin_Buu_-_Majin_Buu_ice_cream

Remember that 4 months after the defeat of Kid Buu, Goku had Shenron erase the memories of Majin Buu from the minds of earthlings so Good Buu (Fat Buu or Mr. Buu) could live a peaceful life on earth.

The only way I could see the world still worshiping Mr. Satan would be for them to praise and award him during the 4 months between Kid Buu’s death and their minds being erased. They must have had plans for the hotel along with the other awards for him, but after the mind wipe it seems clear that they gave it to him anyway (despite not knowing what threat they were saved from).

4_Super_Saiyans

Another thing to mention is the fact that Tarble was mentioned in Battle of Gods by Bulma. They were looking for a fifth Saiyan to help in the Super Saiyan God ritual, but they could not find one. Vegeta mentioned that his brother is in another star system, but he did not know which one.

151284-ee

This most likely means we will indeed see everyone meeting Tarble in the first part of DB Super.

tumblr_nqkstwAiR81rwwnbro8_500

Not to mention we see Goku training on King Kai’s Planet in the new trailer, and this was also seen at the beginning of Battle of Gods. My guess is Chi-Chi loosened the chain on Goku since Mr. Satan gave them all of that money, and he was allowed to do some training.

EGHtYjG (1)

Now let’s talk about Beerus’ premonition about the Super Saiyan God possibly erasing Battle of Gods and Revival of Frieza out of the picture. Above is a photo from Chapter 1 of the DB Super manga, and it has driven fans insane!

5d0xiOw

Beerus is on some alien planet, and he is having a feast. After revealing that he knew the inhabitants had poisoned his food (with no effect on him at all), he blew up their planet. He then talks to Whis about his dream about an opponent that would entertain him known as a Super Saiyan God.

Apparently, Beerus had just awoken from his 39 year slumber and was still a bit tired. Whis then suggests they go to their home world so he can remember his dream better.

BeerusAndOracleFish

I thought that the Oracle Fish would be the key to the timeline. Why? Remember according to Beerus, it was the fish that told him that a Super Saiyan God would appear to give him a good fight and rival his power. He said that he would appear in 39 years, and that was why Beerus woke up “early” from his slumber because of the premonition from the Oracle Fish.

Again, it depends on the translation from the dub and manga because the Oracle Fish’s prophecy differs. One says that the fish foretold of the Super Saiyan God, but the other says that his prophecy was only that an unnamed opponent that would eventually become a rival to Beerus would appear. Then it was during a dream Beerus had while sleeping for 39 years that revealed the identity of his rival; a Super Saiyan God.

tumblr_inline_nkm3rt6CJJ1sowhjk

Originally, I thought this scene from the manga would be Beerus thinking about the prophecy the fish told him, he would sleep 39 years after Whis takes him home, and then he would reawaken during Battle of Gods.

However, seeing Old Kai and Kibito Kai in the last panel shot that theory apart…

Overall, it is inconsistent that Beerus apparently woke up earlier in DB Super than he did in Battle of Gods. I do not think that this one little thing will erase that movie and Revival of F from the continuity. It could be that Akira is simply changing things up a bit for something just a little different.

Screenshot_2

I do find it interesting that in the beginning of Battle of Gods, when the Kais sense Beerus’ awakening, there is a wide shot of a distant galaxy, and what appears to be the remains of a destroyed planet.

Screenshot_3

After that, we see that Old and Supreme Kai were watching the events unfold. Could those floating rocks in space be the remains of the alien world that Beerus destroyed in the DB Super manga, or were they simply just asteroids floating in space?

Just something interesting to think about…

Beerus_&_Champa

Finally, I will simply talk about what I think will happen in the series. It has been revealed that a new character named Champa and a female-looking version of Whis will appear on Beerus’ planet.

Apparently he is also a God of Destruction, and he could be from one of the 11 other universes in the DB world.

mqdefault

When he appears in DB Super has not yet been revealed, but my guess is either before Battle of Gods or after Revival of Frieza.

tumblr_nm3l4vudN21t2ylfho3_500

I think it would be interesting for the series to allow us to see some of the 11 other universes. Considering Goku and Vegeta’s power is growing at an impressive rate, it seems clear that they may soon surpass Beerus with their individual power.

Not sure how long it would take for them to ever pass Whis, but at some point I think that they will. Regardless as to whether it is through them working together or fusing. Since the series is set to be 100 episodes (and maybe more), I have no doubt that other gods from the other universes will appear! Beerus even said in Battle of Gods that some of those universes spawned beings that were more powerful than he and Whis.

We all know that Goku thrives for fighting more powerful opponents, and Vegeta will not allow himself to be outdone by that low-level clown!

Universos

Could DB Super be similar to the web comic DB Multiverse, and we will see a huge tournament between other DB universes?

1205457861_f

Either way, I think that the series has a lot of potential, and I am looking forward to it. I really hope that it is not like GT because I want all of the characters to shine in DB Super! GT was pretty much “Goku Time” and made everyone else weak.

th

In DB Super, fans fear that with opponents like gods and other powerful beings, Goku and Vegeta will be the ONLY ones who have a chance to oppose them.

dragon-ball-z-la-resurrection-de-freezer-photo-54f58f9c2f66c

This means that everyone else in the show like Super Gotenks, Piccolo and Ultimate Gohan would not stand a chance. Given their performance in Revival of Frieza (minus Gotenks)…this might be the case.

1426244-319926141480934-1599780369

I want to see a teenage/adult Gotenks, Piccolo reaching a new level of power, and Gohan not being written to be a weakling when he is one of the most powerful beings in the universe!

There are so many twists and turns that this new series can travel down, but I will remain a fan and view it! I do not want to be one of those fans who give the series a thumbs down before it even airs because I want this to be great. The main reason for the series being revived is because of its popularity that is being kept alive by the fans.

PXR9ecQ

With that being said, what do you think about this theory? How far will DB Super go? Will it continue up until the end of DBZ when Goku leaves with Uub? Will this erase the final 3 episodes of DBZ completely, and create something new? Do you think we will see the other 11 universes?

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

Dragon Ball Z: Did Whis Create Kid Buu?

By Jeremy Carden

I have been puzzled by this question ever since I watched Battle of Gods, and read an article about an interview with Akira Toriyama regarding Majin Buu’s origins.

3352475-3035577801-KidBu

When asked about Buu’s origins, Akira said this:

“Though in the manga Kaiōshin said that Bibidi made him, the truth is that one called “Buu” was not actually created by Bididi, but has existed since time immemorial. He cycled between rampages and long hibernation. During numerous iterations of this cycle, he absorbed the evil elements of mankind, becoming steadily more violent. Bibidi merely knew the means of calling Buu from out of his long slumber. Since the current Buu is a slightly different life-form due to the changes brought about when the evil Buu was expelled, it’s not known whether he’ll still go into long hibernation.”

I was surprised by this information because it adds an entirely new dimension on how Buu came to be the Majin that fans know best.

Now, it is time to get down to the theory itself on how Kid Buu might be connected to Whis.

3903344-4875768447-36889

Originally, I thought that Whis was the God of Creation because Beerus was the God of Destruction.

However, this was not the case because Akira actually stated that it was the Supreme Kais who were responsible for the creation of planets, and Beerus was the being responsible for the destruction of planets and star systems.

DBZ Movie 14 - Battle of Gods 04

King Kai told Goku that both forms of life are needed in the universe in order to maintain balance.

Alright, so it has been established that the Supreme Kais and Beerus are more or less responsible for different roles in the universe to balance things out, and Whis is pretty much the supreme being above all else in Universe 7 (the universe that we know of from DBZ).

What does this have to do with Kid Buu?

Based on Akira’s origins for the character, Buu seemed to have come out of nothingness. You might compare Buu to the Big Bang Theory, and how the universe came from an incredible explosion that seemed to have come from nowhere. However, something had to have triggered that big bang, and I am thinking that the same could have been true about Buu’s existence.

4494707-6377008389-amph-

My theory is that Whis created Kid Buu BEFORE the role (or job) of “God of Destruction” was a position that existed in Universe 7.

Buu does not have a date in which he came into existence, and it was mentioned that he has existed since time immemorial. This means that Buu is so old that it is almost generally accepted (or hinted at by Akira) that Buu has existed since the dawn of time.

Let’s say that Whis created Buu, but where did the Kais come from?

tumblr_lzs9ezO9gX1rq0olko1_500

Akira said this when asked about how one becomes a Supreme Kai (supposedly the highest status in the universe):

“No one can. Kaiōshin are born as Kaiōshin. There are three of them, and they work in shifts. Though there are two of them on duty now, if one of the Kaiōshin were to die in an accident, then the currently-inactive Kaiōshin would grow in the Kaiōshin Realm like a plant. If there aren’t any accidents, then it’s said their life spans are about 75,000 years.”

DBZ_-_251The_Old_Kais_Weapon_0069

Considering the life of a Supreme Kai is around 75,000 years, it could mean that Buu was pretty much close to being an immortal because there was only 1 of him.

However, it also makes sense that there would be multiple overseers of the universe because of different quadrants. That is where East, North, West and South Kai come into play.

Think of it like this:

The Supreme Kais are the Gods of Creation and oversee both the living and other world. The lower Kais (King Kai and his 3 counterparts) guard and oversee the living world.

KidBuuArrival

Does it seem fair that there is only one being on destruction (Buu), but there are multiple Kais who have the ability to make worlds?

Something tells me that 1 creature of destruction was enough, and the Kais probably were not making planets just for the sake of making them. I am sure that Whis might have had some word in how much could be created, or felt that Buu was more than enough to keep the planet total in check.

BetterBuuImage

Anyway, I think the most interesting part of Akira’s description of Buu was the concept of Buu not being the evil maniac that we saw in DBZ.

He describes Buu as cycling between rampages and long hibernation. During numerous iterations of this cycle, he absorbed the evil elements of mankind, becoming steadily more violent.

KamiArrivestoEarth

This sounds very similar to the origins of the Original Nameless Namek! Remember that he arrived on earth due to the storms on Namek that were on the verge of destroying the entire planet. However, the storms ended after the Namek was sent to earth. He waited years and years for his people to follow him, but they never came. During his time on earth, he watched the evilness of mankind and slowly began to adapt those traits in his personality.

From there, the Namek eventually had to surrender the evilness in his heart (that was “born” through his interactions and visuals of mankind) in order to become Guardian of the Earth.

Beginning

That was how Kami became the good-hearted overseer of Earth, and the pure evil King Piccolo came into existence.

Again, this goes back to Buu’s origins! He was a being that seemed to be created for nothing more than destruction that resulted from his rampages.

Similar to the Nameless Namek, it seems that during his rampages, Buu picked up characteristics from mankind (apparently the worst traits); sadistic, murderous, insane and other negative aspects of the living.

buu_6

Not to mention that like the Namek, Buu eventually split into a good and an evil half.

I will touch on this more when we eventually get to Buu coming into contact with the wizard Bibidi.

It appears that Buu was a being that helped to keep the balance between creation and destruction in check. This sounds very similar to the role of “God of Destruction.” After those long rampages, he would go into his ball for a long duration of hibernation.

tumblr_inline_nkm3rt6CJJ1sowhjk

This mirrors the pattern of Beerus because he destroys planets as a way of making sure that there is balance in the universe, but then goes into long periods of hibernation. Whis is there to keep Beerus in check, and appears to keep the purple kitty from needless acts of destruction.

BibidiandKidBuuEndOfEarth01

Now we will throw Bibidi into the equation! Originally, it was believed that this midget wizard was the one responsible for creating Buu. On the contrary, Bibidi knew of the spell that could release Buu from his ball during his hibernation cycle to recharge his batteries so to speak.

From there, he turned Kid Buu into Majin Buu. The pink powerhouse was no longer a natural universal tool for balance. He was now a minion for an insane wizard. It is true that Bibidi did not have full control over Buu, but he was using him for his own means.

Galactic domination was the goal of Bibidi, and with Buu’s power at his disposal; he could have achieved what he was trying to obtain.

tumblr_mwjo4xh8JD1qzmfgzo2_500

First off, the Supreme Kais were on his hit list. We all know the story of how Buu killed the North and West Supreme Kais.

0a3fdfb652a232a9c8dc069d390a6a16

After that, Buu absorbed South Kai and the Grand Supreme Kai. This resulted in Kid Buu becoming the Buff and the Fat Majin Buu that we saw when he was released from his ball during the Majin Buu Saga.

East_Kaioshin_1

We also know that the Eastern Supreme Kai eventually became the Supreme Kai that oversaw the entire universe.

It is not mentioned when the “lower Kais” were born, but I wager that those Kais (King Kai-level Kais) came into existence after Buu absorbed and killed the Supreme Kais.

KingKaiFourKails

That seems to make the most sense considering that Supreme Kai would have been the only Kai alive to do the job. King Kai and his 3 other counterparts could have been born to oversee the lower realm to assist Supreme Kai. They may have also assisted with planet creation as well.

Of course, this is just my own personal speculation of it all, but it interesting anyway you look at it.

OldKai.Ep.264

Let’s backtrack to when Old Kai was trapped inside of the Z-Sword because I think it adds another interesting piece to the possible connection between Buu and Beerus.

Akira said this about Old Kai:

“The Kaiōshin (who create planets) and the Gods of Destruction (who destroy them) have never gotten along that well, but once every 1,000 years they go to each other’s realms and hold a coordination meeting. At this time, they got into an argument over some trifling thing, and a certain short-tempered God of Destruction sealed Elder Kaiōshin away inside a sword. Naturally, it wouldn’t have been proper for him to destroy the Kaiōshin Realm itself. By the way, that God of Destruction was Beerus.”

Gohan,Goku,SupremeKai,KibitoAndOldKai

When he was released from the sword, Old Kai mentioned that there was a terrible villain that trapped him inside of the sword. This being was jealous of his awesome magical capabilities, and he tricked Old Kai!

The dialogue that caught my attention was that “this villain” was not as terrible as Majin Buu, but still pretty bad!

BillsSpaceHand(BoG)

As mentioned above, this “villain” who trapped Old Kai in the Z-Sword was none other than Beerus!

Old Kai’s statement could imply 1 of 2 things:

  1. Beerus was not as terrible as Majin Buu because at that point in time, Beerus may have not been as powerful as Kid Buu.
  2. Beerus was not as terrible as Majin Buu because he was not an insane destroyer. He had some reasoning and sense of right/wrong. Though he has short tempter, and will destroy a solar system when angered, Old Kai might not have seen Beerus in the same realm of “evil” as Buu.

photo

Wait, how could the God of Destruction potentially be weaker than Kid Buu?

Considering that Buu was possibly in existence since the beginning of time, it makes sense that Old Kai during his time (15 generations ago when compared to the Eastern Supreme Kai-turned Supreme Kai) knew of the terrible evil menace rampaging around the universe.

We do not know the origins of Beerus, but I do not think he was always the all-powerful being that we saw in Battle of Gods. Keep in mind that I think he was selected by Whis to become the God of Destruction, but during his initial acceptance of the job, he may not have been all that powerful.

-Goku-Super-Saiyan-God-dragon-ball-z-36038450-500-281

Maybe there is some kind of ritual that takes place that allows one to become a God of Destruction just like there is a ritual for a Super Saiyan God to appear.

After Beerus became a god, Whis became his fighting instructor and overseer. He might have taught him in the ways of combat, but Whis was still unable to teach Beerus to control that temper and sense of entitlement.

Similar to Ying and Yang, it makes sense that the Gods of Creation and the God of Destruction would not get along. I wonder what kind of argument caused Old Kai to be trapped in the Z-Sword.

3473865-king+kai+planet+punch

Depending on what dub you watched, Beerus destroyed King Kai’s once huge planet due to losing a video game or playing hide-and-seek. That was why King Kai’s planet was so small when we first saw it in the Saiyan Saga.

With that being said, I am sure that Beerus got enraged over nothing. That was how the Old Kai was trapped. Old Kai said that he was 15 generations before Supreme Kai. Considering that each Supreme Kai has a lifespan of about 75,000 years that means that Old Kai was possibly trapped in the sword around 1,125,000 years before he was released! I got that number by simply multiplying 15 times 75,000.

tumblr_n3m5skQ7Es1r72ht7o1_500

In terms of power, we know that Kid Buu is on par with a Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

tumblr_mjzdue5r9M1r72ht7o1_500

At the beginning of Battle of Gods, Beerus defeated Super Saiyan 3 Goku with a pluck to the forehead and a karate chop to the neck.

I think that it goes without saying that Beerus is in an entirely different realm of power than Kid Buu!

OldKai.Ep.255

It all goes back on how you interpret the Old Kai’s statement of Beerus being less terrible than Buu. Whether it was in regards to his power or temperament is all based on perspective. This is very similar to the fan interpretation of Old Kai comparing the Fusion Dance to the Potara Earrings.

Maybe Beerus was powerful, but not Kid Buu-level in terms of strength during the time when he trapped Old Kai in the Z-Sword?

Again, that is left to speculation…

MBibidi

In any case, I think this theory can be summed up by Bibidi’s spell over Buu. I think that if Whis was truly the one who created Buu, he did so with the intention of Buu hibernating.

Majin_buu_cocoon

Do you really think that Whis would create a being that would rampage endlessly throughout the universe without giving it an off switch? I don’t think that he would, and that is why I think Whis created Buu with his batteries needing to be recharged through hibernation in his ball.

Considering that Beerus isn’t immortal because Whis offered Goku the position of God of Destruction after Beerus eventually died, I think it is safe to say that Buu existed before Beerus.

Another possible scenario is that Buu and Beerus had hibernation cycles that occurred at different times. Perhaps Beerus would be sleeping while Buu was rampaging, and vice versa.

The flaw in that theory would be an endless cycle of destruction that would occur because of 2 powerful beings…

MajinBuuSmoke

Not to mention that Beerus considered 39 years of sleeping as nothing more than a catnap. I think Buu’s hibernation cycles were extremely longer than that. However, when Bibidi (and later Babidi) got Buu under one of his spells, Buu would not hibernate for long. He was sealed up whenever Bibidi felt that Buu was slipping out of control or when he needed to rest.

Perhaps Whis felt that as long as Buu was destroying planets (even while under a wizard’s control) that it was helping to keep balance.

I know that makes Whis sound kind of like an uncaring parent, but really these “gods” aren’t exactly as all-knowing as their job descriptions may have you believe…

BOGBillsandWhis3

That could be why Whis actually trained Beerus (and possibly the other Gods of Destruction before him), and kept watch over him instead of letting him rampage across the universe like Buu.

One might assume that Whis saw the results of leaving a being of powerful destructive capabilities (Buu) unchecked could result in terrible results. I mean Buu literally wiped out the Kais, and that pretty much ruined some of the universal balance.

WhisTalkingToBills(BoG)

You are probably wondering why Whis did not recognize “his creation” during Battle of Gods when he was hogging the pudding cups.

Remember that Old Kai was sealed in the sword by Beerus prior to Kid Buu becoming Fat Buu. It could be that after Beerus (or whoever the first God of Destruction was) entered the god-ranking as the being of destruction, Whis left Buu to his own means.

FourKais

He probably figured Buu was on a ranking like King Kai and his other counterparts, and Beerus was now on the level of Supreme Kai(s). Both races were in check of creation and destruction with lower beings to assist with their job.

From there, Whis was not aware that Kid Buu had evolved into Fat Buu, and that was why he took notice of “that pink gentleman” instead of calling him Majin Buu.

Regardless as to whether or not my theory is true, I think that it is a very interesting topic to think about.

Also, here is a link to the interview with Akira Toriyama: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/saikyo-jump-june-2014-issue-twel-buu-mysteries/.

dqNmMRR

What do you think about this theory? Was Buu created by Whis before the position of God of Destruction was introduced, or did he “naturally” come into the existence from the universe itself? Was Buu at one point in time more powerful than Beerus?

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

Dragon Ball Super: Is Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan More Powerful Than Super Saiyan 4?

By Jeremy Carden

super_saiyan_4_vs_super_saiyan_god_by_delvallejoel-d66lz95

Since Battle of Gods, DBZ fans have been debating about Super Saiyan 4 vs. Super Saiyan God.

With the new Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan transformation revealed, the debated has sparked even more controversy. Despite the ongoing debate between fans, there has been no clear definitive answer as to which form is superior.

Goku_ssj4.12

Most fans are quick to say that it does not matter how powerful Super Saiyan 4 is because GT is not canon. Not to mention with Dragon Ball Super on the horizon, it is set to “erase” GT from existence. I will get into my thoughts on that in another blog, but for now the focus will be on which Super Saiyan transformation is superior.

It has never been fully established how powerful these new forms are when compared to the standard Super Saiyan forms. Which forms am I referring to?

Goku_and_vegeta_super_saiyan_god_background_by_armorkingtv21-d6nmdj1

These 3 below:

  • Super Saiyan God
  • Saiyan beyond God
  • Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan

Here is what we do know about the standard Super Saiyan forms:

goku__s_many_forms_by_tontiac5-d3670qt

  • Super Saiyan 1 is 50 times more powerful than base form
  • Super Saiyan 2 is twice the power of a Super Saiyan (100 times base form)
  • Super Saiyan 3 is four times more powerful than Super Saiyan 2 (400 times base form)
  • Super Saiyan 4 is ten times more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 (4000 times base form)

The missing factor in all of this involves how much more powerful Super Saiyan God is when compared to Super Saiyan 3.

DBZ_BOG_4

We know that Beerus took out Super Saiyan 3 Goku with a simple flick to the forehead, and a well placed karate chop to a pressure point on Goku’s neck.

ef28b8b896854a3db83acbf30d431b45

However, Beerus tried this same karate chop on Super Saiyan God Goku, but it failed to work! This shows us that Goku’s power has increased to astounding new heights!

It was one of those blink-and-you-miss moments during the beginning of their battle.

In the end, 70% Beerus was able to defeat 80% Super Saiyan God Goku; remember that Goku never fought at 100% with his new power.

2d9473b9cbfbab2ca1942d1f6dbe00c2e9c98a1602cca480e5899e871fd99ce3_large

Saiyan beyond God is a “form” that Goku and Vegeta reach after the events of Battle of Gods, and during their time as students under Whis.

A Saiyan prodigy who transforms into Super Saiyan God will revert back to base form after the Super Saiyan God form time limit runs out. However, they will absorb the power of the Super Saiyan God into their base form. This will result in the Saiyan becoming a Saiyan beyond God.

UltimateGohanAttacks(BoG)

It reminds me of Ultimate Gohan because in his “base form” he has far more power than he ever did as a Super Saiyan 1 or 2. The reason I say “base form” is because as Ultimate Gohan his outer appearance barely changes from his regular appearance.

goku_and_vegeta___dbz_fukkatsu_no_f__by_sano_br-d8n0xav

When it comes to Saiyan beyond God vs. the appearance of base Goku or Vegeta, the only change is the color of their aura. It becomes more of a milky white color when compared to their standard base form aura.

super_saiyan_god_super_saiyan_vegeta_by_moxie2d-d8p5oi6

When a Saiyan beyond God has access to the Super Saiyan transformation…they can become a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan!

It is unknown how much more powerful this makes a Saiyan beyond God, or how much more powerful this form is when compared to a Super Saiyan God.

Most fans are quick to assume that just like the standard Super Saiyan transformation; it increases a Saiyan’s power 50 times over the power of his base power. In this case, “base power” is considered Saiyan beyond God.

Wait, does that mean a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is 50 times the power of a Super Saiyan God?

k4ysWV9

Saiyan beyond God is basically a Saiyan in base form that has mastered or absorbed the power of a Super Saiyan God into their body right?

Although it is not official, I can see why most fans would assume that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is superior to a Super Saiyan God by 50 times.

However, the Super Saiyan multiplier scale seems to conflict with Akira Toriyama’s own power scale for the gods.

PXR9ecQ

He stated his own personal belief on the power differences between the Battle of Gods characters below:

Super Saiyan God Goku is about a “6”, Beerus a “10” and Whis about a “15”.

To me this never made much sense, and please do not think that I am debating the word of the official creator of Dragon Ball Z. However, the key phrase here is that these levels are Akira’s “own personal belief.”

With that being said, I think it is fair for me (or any other fan for that matter) to have my own personal belief as well.

SSGvsB

As I mentioned before, Beerus was only fighting at 70% power when he battled Super Saiyan God Goku. The Saiyan never truly fought at 100% with his new godly power. His time limit in the form ran out before he could kick things up to full power.

tumblr_n9v7czpk5G1rgagxfo1_500

True, Beerus mentioned that Goku absorbed the power of the Super Saiyan God into his base form, and from there transformed into a Super Saiyan. That explained why he was able to fight on par with Beerus for some time, and he did not even notice that his Super Saiyan God fuel had burned out until Beerus mentioned it to him.

Some may argue that Goku fought Beerus as a Saiyan beyond God after his Super Saiyan God power fizzled out like a flat can of soda.

Others might mention that Goku fighting Beerus as a Full Power Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God was a potential foreshadowing of the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan!

Both are valid points, and I think they are worth mentioning.

Now here is where my opinion is slightly different than Akira’s own personal belief. If my math is mistaken, please feel free to let me know in the comment section below (and be respectful because we are all human, and mistakes can be made).

Whis_says_Beerus_was_using_70_of_his_power

If Beerus (at 70% power) was fighting Super Saiyan God Goku (at 80% power), wouldn’t this imply that Beerus is at best only 10% more powerful than Super Saiyan God Goku?

That conflicts with Goku being a 6, and Beerus being a 10. The gap of 4 seems to imply much more than a 10% difference in strength. My opinion is that Akira did not write Battle of Gods with the intention of having an exact measuring system of power levels.

Remember that they were only introduced into the series so the characters and fans would come to realize how useless they really were.

Trunks_Deflects_an_Attack

Considering that Trunks at level 5 was the last power level scanned in the series, I am sure that we can assume that in the interview, Akira did not have an exact figure in his head regarding the power of the gods. We just know that Whis is more powerful than Beerus, and Beerus is more powerful than Goku.

To me, Full Power Super Saiyan Goku (with the power of Super Saiyan God) was not as powerful as he was when he was a Super Saiyan God. I say this because Goku was experiencing the power for the very first time, and he did not have full mastery over his new power yet.

Vegeta,_Goku_and_Whis

After training with Whis, I suspect the Saiyan beyond God version of Goku is superior to even his Super Saiyan God form from Battle of Gods (to a certain extent).

We then find out that the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is basically a Super Saiyan fighting with the power of a Super Saiyan God.

Wait, does that mean Goku could become a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 2 and a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3?

I am not going to go down that rabbit hole because we could be going back and forth about this for an eternity. If Goku could indeed reach those forms then as a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3, his power would be 400 times the power of a Saiyan beyond God!

th

Now to get back on track, Saiyan beyond God is superior to Super Saiyan God in the sense that this is a base form Saiyan that has mastered the Super Saiyan God transformation.

What does this mean?

It means that base form Goku and Vegeta can fight with the power of a Super Saiyan God, but the time limit of the godly form is no longer a handicap.

3650254-8123681000-Goku_

Again a comparison can be made to Ultimate Gohan vs. Super Saiyan 3. Gohan is allowed to fight with his maximum power without his Ki supply being quickly drained like a Super Saiyan 3.

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is the next stage of a superior Super Saiyan God because it also allows a Saiyan to fight with the power of the Super Saiyan God, but without any sort of time limit handicap.

CDGDZZfVAAI6_K4

I know we have covered a lot of ground so far, but let’s do a quick recap just to be sure we are on the same page.

Saiyan beyond God is the base form of a Saiyan that has now mastered and retained the power of a Super Saiyan God. Any Saiyan that is capable of becoming a Super Saiyan can take their Saiyan beyond God stage to the level of a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

Both of these incarnations of a Saiyan can be considered superior in power to the Super Saiyan God transformation.

0DragonballGT-Episode062_215

Moving onto GT, although it was never officially stated; Goku in base form is said to be as powerful as he was at the Super Saiyan 3 level in DBZ (specifically in the Buu Saga, not the 10 year gap between the death of Kid Buu and the departure of Goku with Uub).

GokuMeteorImpact2

This made me cringe as a child when I heard this because I was difficult to believe that Kid Goku (GT) was on par with the Super Saiyan 3 that we had seen fighting with Kid Buu!

3758728-7403356629-29599

However, most fans associate Goku’s power to Super Saiyan 3 because of his statement to General Rilldo about the Machine Mutant being more powerful than even Majin Buu.

9._General_Rilldo_battle_stance

Goku actually fights on par (and even has the upper hand for a good portion of the fight) with Rilldo, and that is why most fans say he was at the power of a Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku. It is also worth mentioning that this is in reference to Rilldo’s first form, and not his other 2 transformation that make Goku power up to Super Saiyan 1 which makes him 50 times more powerful than before.

GokuSuperSaiyan3

Things can get extremely complicated when thinking about a base form Goku being on par with his Super Saiyan 3 form from DBZ.

Think of it this way:

Gt_kid_goku_34

Kid Goku (GT) in base form = Super Saiyan 3 Goku from Buu Saga.

GokuAfterFightingVegetaBuuSaga

This would mean GT Goku is 400 times the power of base power Goku from the Buu Saga!

What does this mean in terms of the Super Saiyan multipliers when applied to GT Goku?

  • Super Saiyan 1 is 50 times base power
  • Super Saiyan 2 is twice the power of Super Saiyan 1
  • Super Saiyan 3 is four times the power of Super Saiyan 2
  • Super Saiyan 4 is ten times the power of Super Saiyan 3

Goku-Super-Saiyajin-4

Meaning that Super Saiyan 4 Goku in GT is 4,000 times the power of Super Saiyan 3 Goku from the Buu Saga!

Yes, I find this mind blowing as well because it all goes back to what Vegeta from the Team Four Star Abridged series of DBZ said about power levels:

mj0bl

Alright, at this point the question arises as to which form of Goku would come out on top if Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan met Super Saiyan 4.

1205457861_f

I am willing to bet that in terms of power alone…the winner would be Super Saiyan 4.

Hear me out on this:

We know that Super Saiyan God is more powerful than Super Saiyan 3, but we do not know by how much. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is speculated (and keep in mind that it is not official) to be 50 times the power of a Saiyan beyond God, and this “form” is literally a base form Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God.

Fans speculate Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan to be 50 times the power of a Super Saiyan God.

The reason I feel that Super Saiyan 4 Goku is more powerful is simply because a base form Goku that is equal in power to a Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku is just insane to think about because he gets a 4,000 times power increase at Super Saiyan 4.

safug2k3ttnql7elzmvi

I will say that we do know Saiyan beyond God Goku is more powerful than GT base form Goku.

Why?

It has been said many times that Saiyan beyond Goku is basically Super Saiyan God Goku (just without the drastic change in appearance), and that would mean his power is much higher than Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

goku_and_vegeta_fukkatsu_no_f_ssjgod_wallpaper_by_eymsmiley-d8p4mp4

However, if Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is indeed only 50 times the power of Saiyan beyond God (or Super Saiyan God), I feel that it goes without saying that a 50-fold power increase would not be able to matchup to a Super Saiyan 4 GT Goku.

SSj2GokuGT_zps9e39cdca

Super Saiyan GT Goku alone is already 50 times the power of Super Saiyan 3 DBZ Goku, which increases to 100 times as a Super Saiyan 2, and 400 times as a Super Saiyan 3…

I do not think that Super Saiyan God is that much of a power-up when compared to Super Saiyan 3.

If Goku were to fully master his training under Whis in order to become a perfect warrior, he would have an advantage over Super Saiyan 4 Goku.

Jq7ChEx

Remember that Whis pointed out Goku’s main flaw as being too relaxed in battle, and that leaves him open to attack. This can lead to his defeat by a weaker opponent, and we saw this happen when Sorbet blasted him through the heart with his ring laser!

Can you imagine a Goku that was flawless in combat? True, Super Saiyan 4 is more powerful, but that version of Goku would not have the training of Whis to back him up!

I am keeping “GT Goku” and “Battle of Gods Goku” as separate entities during this fight.

6099585512a7189356153l

Some fans are probably reading this and would consider the fight to be over in a matter of seconds! I mean Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku would just need to cut off Super Saiyan 4 Goku’s tail!

Yes, I know that would be a way of ending the fight very quickly. However, who would want to see that as the ending of such an epic battle?

I know that I would not want this battle between Super Saiyans to be over before it begun due to Super Saiyan 4 Goku’s main handicap.

Something else that needs to be taken into consideration is that Super Saiyan 4 and Super Saiyan God/Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan are completely different levels. I mean Super Saiyan 4 seems to fit into the same spectrum as the first 3 Super Saiyan levels.

tumblr_na5hz0tke01qdie0jo1_r2_500

However, Super Saiyan God is in a league of its own. It is a being of such divine energy and power that it cannot be sensed by “lesser beings” through the use of a Ki signature. I do not think that this means Super Saiyan God is automatically more powerful than Super Saiyan 4 (because in GT, it is mentioned on more than one occasion by other characters that Goku’s Ki is incredible in the form; meaning “lesser beings” can sense his presence), but it means that it is in a different realm of power.

-Goku-Super-Saiyan-God-dragon-ball-z-36038450-500-281

Super Saiyan God is a powerful form, but until we are officially given the stats on how much more powerful it is than a Super Saiyan 3; this debate will most likely continue on.

Which form do you think is more powerful?

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below.