Could Kefla Defeat Jiren? | Dragon Ball Super

by Jeremy Carden

Obviously, this post will contain spoilers about the results of Dragon Ball Super Episode 116. Make sure you take that into consideration before going any further. 

Now, I am glad that this episode took its time in terms of having the characters describing the amount of power each fighter had. However, I think that Kefla was way too overpowered!

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For starters, Whis stated that Super Saiyan Kefla’s power rivaled that of the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb; which Roshi said would have defeated Jiren had it hit its target. This explains how Kefla was able to push Goku far enough for him to reactivate Ultra Instinct.

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After she went Super Saiyan 2 against Goku, Piccolo theorized that her power might have even surpassed Goku’s during his first bout with Jiren using Ultra Instinct!

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Before charging at Goku, Kefla boasts that she feels like her power could destroy an ENTIRE universe!

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It is hard to believe that only a couple of days ago, these female Saiyans did not even know what Super Saiyan was. Now, they have obtained one transformation after another, and Potara on top of that!

Fans have been in an uproar about the Universe 6 Saiyans obtaining all of these transformations with ease, but Universe 7 Saiyans had to go through years of training to obtain their power.

I do not fault Cabba at all because for the two levels of Super Saiyan he has gained, he had to actually work for them! His body was nearly broken and his emotions were pushed to the limits. Even though he is weaker than Kale and Caulifla, I think his characters speaks volumes above the girls.

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After becoming enraged over her attacks not hitting Goku, Kefla digs even deeper for more power. Cabba states her power is swelling even larger than before, and Roshi says Goku would lose if he got hit with even one of her attacks at this level.

In the video below, I go into far more detail about Kefla’s power. However, I think that she was written to be too much of a good thing. Yes, it was good to have female Super Saiyans introduced into the franchise, but it was all too much too soon.

It is crazy to think that if she went Super Saiyan 3, her power would have been multiplied by four. However, I think that four would have been the minimum increase because of her bottomless potential! For all we know, she might have obtained some sort of Super Saiyan 3 Berserker transformation! Which I think would have been the trigger to defusing Kefla before the battle could be won.

Remember that Super Saiyan Gotenks could only be utilized for five minutes before Goten and Trunks’ Fusion Dance would split. So, Gotenks had to think carefully before using this form.

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Based on the two pictures above, I actually thought that she was going to go Super Saiyan 3 based on her frustration and posture. That hunched positioning of the body is the typical stance for someone about to go Super Saiyan 3!

Considering all of the power that she was using, I was not going to be the least bit surprised had she defused before landing a finishing blow on Goku.

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I dare say that she may have been able to surpass even Jiren! That might come across as an unbelievable statement, but look at what the writers have done with her so far.

Overall, I have watched the episode around eight times alright. It literally felt like a Dragon Ball Z episode because the first 8-9 minutes consisted of nothing but Goku and Kelfa powering up while everyone is in awe of their strength!

I was a bit bored in the sense that watching two characters fighting, but one not being able to land a blow can get kind of old. Anyone reading this a Pokemon anime/video game fan?

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Don’t you feel that same level of annoyance whenever an opponent uses Double Team, Sand Attack or anything to increase their ability to dodge attacks? It gets so annoying because the battle drags on longer than it should because one Pokemon can’t land an attack at all, and their opponent just attacks whenever it wants to.

One of the worst examples of this was in the Black and White anime (arguably, the worst Pokemon series). It was during the finals of the Jr. Cup World Tournament between Trip’s Serperior and Ash’s Pignite.

During this tournament, Serperior was able to make quick work of every opponent that it was up against. To add insult to injury, this was the only Pokemon that Trip used in the entire tournament. Pignite did everything that it could, but none of its attacks landed.

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Serperior was just using its natural speed without the use of a move like Double Team and it was able to move around each attack like it was nothing. Heck, Pignite was spamming Flame Charge to increase its speed, but even that did not work! That resulted in probably one of the worst battles to watch because it was about five minutes of straight attacking and dodging until Serperior won…

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I did not feel as upset about watching Goku and Kefla but it was almost getting to that point. However, Goku made up for it with that EPIC Kamehameha to the face! It was so epic that we had to see it THREE times from different angles before Kefla was knocked out of the match.

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At least in this episode, we get a twist since Whis points out that even though Goku is handling Kefla with ease, he can’t utilize Ultra Instinct when he attacks because he is still “thinking” of the attack instead of naturally allowing himself to attack. That explains how Kefla as able to get up and dust herself off after each attack.

That is kind of ironic because Kefla’s attacks had the potential to defeat Goku if even one blast landed, but none of Goku’s moves that made contact could finish the job!

Maybe he will be able to master Ultra Instinct before his next match with Jiren.

Do you think Kefla was too overpowered? Do you think she could have defeated Jiren had she obtained Super Saiyan 3? Are you a bit surprised that she did not defuse after exhausting so much power as an enraged Super Saiyan 2? 

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Dragon Ball Super: Will Vegeta Skip Super Saiyan God?

By Jeremy Carden

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The Saiyan Prince has once again vowed to surpass the Super Saiyan God Goku by following his own path to the level of god.

While some fans have dismissed Vegeta’s attempts to surpass Goku as nothing more than the hotheaded Saiyan once again biting off more than he can chew, I think there is more to it that than.

Yes, I am a HUGE Vegeta fan. Honestly, he is my favorite character in the entire Dragon Ball franchise. However, I am not writing this as a Vegeta fanboy without using some details and information from the series to back up my theory.

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Please keep in mind that I am simply a DB fan writing on the subject of Vegeta POSSIBLY obtaining “Super Saiyan Blue” without going Super Saiyan God.

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DB Wiki (a website that can be edited by fans meaning that any information from it can be taken with a grain of salt) has dubbed Vegeta’s transformation/power-up against Beerus as “Furious Mutation.”

It is described as follows:

Upon being overcome by an extreme rage, the user powers up into their strongest form, however their power skyrockets even further than usual, temporarily blanking out their eyes. In this state, both his skin and body turns with a slight pink tone and blue bolts surround him. Even when the user calms down after using the power-up, the power boost remains.

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Overall, Vegeta lost it after seeing Beerus slap Bulma which caused him to snap.

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This is similar to his assault against Super Perfect Cell after he killed Future Trunks right in front of his eyes.

The key difference here is that even after calming down after his hissy fit (blasting Cell with dozens of ki blasts); Vegeta’s power during his rampaging moment was not sustained.

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Vegeta’s moment of rage was very similar to Gohan’s outburst during the DB series. He would go into a fit of rage whenever he was pushed into a corner, or if someone close to him was hurt by a villain.

From being smacked around with ease to beating the hell out of his opponent, Gohan’s power soared to new heights. However, that power would disappear when he calmed down.

Unlike his past moments of rage, Vegeta had gained a grasp on his enraged power during the Battle of Gods arc.

After the battle with Beerus, Vegeta’s Super Saiyan 2 power had increased from the “Furious Mutation.” He still had access to the power in that state, and was working to increase it even further.

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During episode 16, Vegeta was training alone on a mountain or in the middle of a wasteland. He was seen standing in the rain, and then began powering up when the sun came out.

It was almost as if he was trying to tap into the power he had used against Beerus, and from there take it to the next level.

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Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta perhaps?

Maybe, but sadly I doubt that because of the serious drawbacks that Super Saiyan 3 has when compared to the god level transformations.

In any case, I will say that a Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta would NOT be someone to take lightly.

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Considering the fact that Furious Mutation Vegeta was mentioned to be more powerful than SS3 Goku was (prior to ascending to god level), SS3 Vegeta would a lot stronger than SS3 Goku!

Let’s say that after mastering the Furious Mutation (which made SS2 Vegeta more powerful than SS3 Goku), Vegeta finally goes SS3. That would increase his power Super Saiyan 2 power by 4 making him over 4 times more powerful than SS3 Goku was!

Again, this is just an interesting speculation in terms of Vegeta surpassing Goku.

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Getting back to the true subject of this blog, I think a couple of questions have been raised about Vegeta’s ascension to the level of god. These are the 2 questions to keep in mind:

  1. Can Vegeta skip Super Saiyan God in order to obtain Super Saiyan Blue?
  2. Will Vegeta skip Super Saiyan God in order to obtain Super Saiyan Blue?

It would not surprise me if Vegeta WILL skip SS God in order to get to SS Blue. However, I am not 100% sure if he CAN skip SS God in order to get to SS Blue.

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Saiyan beyond God is the middle form between Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue.

After a Saiyan that has obtained Super Saiyan God reverts back to base form after the god transformation’s time limit runs out, their body can absorb that godly realm of power. This results in the Saiyan’s base form being on a similar level of power as a SS God.

Then if the Saiyan can truly master the power of SS God in the Saiyan beyond God form, going Super Saiyan allows the user to add godly ki to the transformation.

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Meaning that Super Saiyan Blue is a regular Super Saiyan transformation, but it has the presence of godly ki. Keep in mind, the Saiyan is NOT 100% god or 100% Saiyan.

It is almost like a Saiyan-God hybrid of sorts, but it is a powerful transformation without the time limit of SS God.

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Whis told Vegeta that if he learned to control his ki, he could potentially be able to surpass Goku.

Personally, I did not truly understand what Whis meant by that. Was he saying that a Saiyan with ki control could surpass a Saiyan at the god level?

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t Goku and Gohan learn about ki control during the Cell Games arc?

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During their training in the Time Chamber, they learned to master the Super Saiyan transformation. This allowed them to control their ki output and maintain their base form personality traits even while transformed as Full Power Super Saiyans.

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Vegeta never trained under the same methods as Goku and Gohan. That was why he had trouble cracking an egg due to using too much force.

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This was very similar to Goku and Gohan trying to hold glass cups during their downtime before the battle with Cell.

Will Vegeta’s training with Whis be similar to Goku and Gohan’s training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber? Basically, they maintained the regular Super Saiyan transformation as long as they could until it felt normal (their new base form).

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I’m hoping that in the next episode, we get to see flashbacks of some of Vegeta’s training. He has been on Beerus’ planet for 6 months, and Whis thought it was the perfect time for Goku to travel there as well.

This could hint at Vegeta being near Goku’s power, but the way he achieved that power has yet to be revealed.

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We do see Vegeta and Goku doing basic chores to help maintain the upkeep of the area where Beerus sleeps.

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After watching those scenes, it reminded me of Goku and Krillin doing chores like delivering milk along with farm work while training under Master Roshi.

If I were to make a semi-educated guess on Vegeta bypassing SS God to obtain SS Blue, I would say that the Saiyans participating in the SS God ritual got a small taste of god power themselves.

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I mean they are transferring their ki into one Saiyan in order for the Saiyan to reach SS God.

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Who is to say some of that godly ki isn’t transferred through all of the participants in the ritual, but only one truly ascends to the SS God level?

That explanation is the only one that I can think of that would actually make some sense as to how Vegeta could skip the SS God transformation in order to get to SS Blue.

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If Vegeta does skip SS God, I think that would be cool because it shows that he wants to surpass Goku, but he will do it on his own. That would be an interesting change of pace from DBGT where he had to rely on Bulma’s Blutz Waves device in order to become SS4 in order to help close the gap between himself and Goku.

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Whis could be training him to master his own ki, and the “sample” of godly ki that was given to him through the SS God ritual for Goku. This is what could allow Vegeta to go SS Blue which is a blending of Super Saiyan and godly ki.

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What do you think? I would love to hear your thoughts in the comment section below.

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

Dragon Ball Z: Is Super Saiyan 3 Goku More Powerful Than Ultimate Gohan?

By Jeremy Carden

There is a battle that has caused a lot of tension within the fan base of the Dragon Ball series. I have seen many blogs and videos about this particular subject. Fans have debated about Gogeta vs. Vegito, Kid Buu vs. Super Buu (Ultimate Gohan absorbed) and Goku vs. Superman.

However, the topic of this blog will focus on the ultimate battle between Goku and Gohan.

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While reading this blog, please remember that I will be discussing Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Ultimate Gohan (also called Mystic Gohan by some fans) from the Majin Buu Saga.

This blog will not include anything between the time of Kid Buu’s death and the ending of DBZ when Goku leaves with Uub.

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That means nothing about Super Saiyan God or Dragon Ball GT will be included in this blog.

Let’s get this battle started! As with most of my “Who would win?” blogs, I will start this one by expressing my thoughts right off the bat. I feel that in terms of power alone; Gohan is the winner.

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Does that mean he would win? Yes…and no. Just because Gohan is more powerful than Goku does not mean that he would win.

At this point, some readers are probably shaking their heads at my belief that Ultimate Gohan is more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

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Before I go any further, I just want to say that this blog is based on my own personal opinion. If you feel that Goku is more powerful than Gohan then you are entitled to your opinion. From this point on in the blog, I will attempt to use facts from the manga AND anime in order to get my point across. I would love to hear your thoughts in the comments below after finishing this blog, and you can tell me if I have persuaded you that Gohan is more powerful.

Believe it or not, when it comes down to determining which warrior is more powerful; you have to examine which form of Majin Buu is more powerful. The 2 Buus that I am talking about are Super Buu and Kid Buu.

The reason that I picked out these forms of Buu is because they are the Buus that Goku and Gohan battled the hardest against.

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If you have ever read my very first DBZ blog about which form of Buu is the most powerful, then you know that I feel that Super Buu (Ultimate Gohan absorbed) is the strongest, and Kid Buu is far from #1.

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In any case, we know that Kid Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Goku are more or less equals. It was mentioned that if Goku had started off the fight at 100%, and did not hold back so that Vegeta would have a chance to fight; he could have killed Kid Buu.

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He mentioned the same about his battle with Fat Buu, but in that case he was not holding back for Vegeta’s sake. In that fight, he was holding back in order for Gohan, Goten and Trunks to have a shot at fighting for the planet. However, unlike the battle with Kid Buu, it was clear that he was holding back (a lot) during his fight with Fat Buu. He did not battle to the point of exhausted as he did against Kid Buu.

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When talking about two fighters who were more or less equals, Super Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks seem to fit that category very nicely. Gotenks was playing around with Buu during their fight, and it was literally a back and forth conflict. Each fighter was able to take a blow, and dish one back out to their opponent! You could argue that Buu was holding back because he was waiting for Gohan to arrive, but it is clear he and Gotenks were on the same plateau of power.

It was Buu’s regeneration powers and endurance that kept the young Super Saiyan 3 from putting him down for the count. However, when Gotenks was about to kill Buu for good, his power ran out and his Fusion ended.

Alright, so we know that Goku and Gotenks had the power to completely annihilate the pink menace that they battled against. They just held back for different reasons; Goku for his respect of Vegeta’s pride, and Gotenks’ cocky nature.

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This leads us to Goku’s comment to Vegeta before they escaped from Super Buu’s head. He mentioned that neither of them could survive if Buu fought them after leaving his body. Fusion was the only way that he and Vegeta would stand a chance.

Goku was literally saying that he was NOT powerful enough to destroy Super Buu if they had to battle him!

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Remember that Ultimate Gohan mopped the floor with Super Buu. He did not even use ki attacks against the pink titan, he was using nothing but melee attacks to push Buu into a corner.

This leads to another point about how powerful Buu became after absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo. We have established that Gohan is more powerful than Super Buu, and this means he is clearly more powerful than Gotenks.

He took Buu apart without much effort, but Gotenks was literally kept on his toes by Buu’s power. So, after absorbing Gotenks, we can assume that Buu’s power pretty much doubled in power.

I think we can conclude that Buu’s absorption technique is a power-up that takes the person(s) absorbed, and adds their power to Buu’s.

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With that being said, “Buutenks” had a power that was over double what it was before. Keep in mind that Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks were pretty much even, and he took Piccolo’s power too (though the Namek’s absorption was more about adding his intelligence to Buu rather than his overall power).

In the anime, Gohan and Buu were on par with each other. It was not until Buu starting using “the Piccolo in him” to chip away at Gohan’s confidence, and that led to him being completely overpowered.

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Unlike the anime, the manga portrayal of Buutenks vs. Gohan was showing Buu’s power to be something that Gohan stood absolutely no chance against.

It appears that Gohan was indeed superior to Buu and Gotenks, but less than twice their power. I would say that he was probably somewhere between 1.2-1.5 times more powerful than Super Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.

Where does this leave Goku?

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Another blog that I wrote awhile back was concerning the subject of Super Gotenks’ power compared to Goku’s. In that blog, I talked about my thoughts on how even a Super Saiyan 1 Gotenks had power that was superior to Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

Why would I say that?

Remember that Goku originally declined killing the Fat Buu because he wanted the boys to save the world instead of relying on him (since he was dead, Goku did not feel it was his right to step in as a savior to the planet).

He taught the boys the Fusion Dance, and felt that it would be the ONLY way of defeating Buu. Trunks asked why he did not teach them Super Saiyan 3 because if he and Goten teamed up at that level then they would beat Buu for sure. However, Goku told them that Fusion was the ONLY way.

After seeing how sad they were, he showed them Super Saiyan 3 before leaving with Baba. In my opinion, I feel that Goku thought that Goten and Trunks fused as Super Saiyans would be enough to defeat Buu (without the need for a Super Saiyan 3 transformation). Goku knew that level 3 was something not meant to be used in the living world due to the rapid ki depletion that it causes for the user outside of other world.

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Considering that he had just fought Buu himself at Super Saiyan 3, I think that Goku knew for a fact that a Super Saiyan 1 Fusion would be enough to kill Buu. This means that it is safe to conclude that Super Saiyan Gotenks (pre-Time Chamber) was in the same realm of power as Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

Let’s take things a step further in order to analyze just how powerful Gotenks was. After training in the Time Chamber for 30 minutes on the outside world before Super Buu lost his patience (which equals just about 7 and a half days inside of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber), Gotenks’ power was said to have increased dramatically.

I think that if there was a gap between pre-Time Chamber Super Saiyan Gotenks and Super Saiyan 3 Goku; that gap was closed after the children’s 7.5 days of training.

I dare say that Gotenks may have become even more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. By how much was never determined, but for the sake of simplicity (without downplaying either of their power levels), let’s say that Super Saiyan 1 Gotenks and Super Saiyan 3 Goku were even.

Going Super Saiyan 2 doubles the power of a Super Saiyan 1, and going Super Saiyan 3 multiples the power of a Super Saiyan 2 by four.

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Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks (at minimum) is 8 times more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

Ultimate Gohan is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks (who is more or less on the same playing field as Super Buu), but not twice as powerful.

Overall, Goku is not as powerful as Gotenks and Gohan. However, his original goal of having the boys measure up to their destinies as the protectors of the planet was realized. His intention was making them even more powerful than he was in order to save the earth from Buu.

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This same goal was similar to Goku’s plans of having Gohan exceed his power to save the world from Cell.

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Not to mention that Piccolo’s goal during the Saiyan Saga was training Gohan to become more powerful than him as well!

In any case, I think I have spelled out why I feel that Ultimate Gohan’s power is clearly superior to his father’s even at Super Saiyan 3.

Considering that Gohan is more powerful than his dad, you are probably wondering whether or not Gohan would be named as the winner before the battle even began.

I say that despite being more powerful, Gohan would not easily win the battle. This is mainly due to Goku being the superior fighter.

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Looking back at the DBZ series, I feel that Gohan’s power and combat skills were at their peak during the Cell Games.

True, Old Kai unlocked ALL of his hidden powers, but that would not unlock his combat skills and fighting instincts.

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Vegeta mentioned that Gohan’s power was a lot higher as a child, and this was when he witnessed Gohan power up to show Kibito the Super Saiyan 2 level.

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While watching his son fight with Dabura, Goku even brings up the fact that Gohan’s fighting sense was lost during his 7 years of no training.

After the battle with Cell, Gohan pretty much neglected his training in favor of studying. The end result was that his 11-year-old persona was more powerful both in strength and in fighting abilities.

Compare this to Goku, he trained for 7 years straight against warriors from across space and time during his stay on the Grand Kai’s planet.

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Before he slacked off in his training, Gohan knew everything that his father had to teach him. Their training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber allowed Gohan to pick up on his father’s technique and surpass his power.

If Ultimate Gohan fought against Super Saiyan 3 Goku, I’d say that Goku would be able to not only predict what Gohan would do next, but outsmart him as well during combat. Goku taught Gohan nearly everything that he knows about fighting.

Piccolo was the only other person to train Gohan. Krillin and Gohan did “mind training” on their trip to Namek, but we know that his father and “Big Green Uncle” were his primary instructors.

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Keep in mind that Goku spent 3 years training alongside Gohan and Piccolo. This means that he has seen everything that Gohan knows about fighting and enhanced his son’s skills in the Time Chamber.

Again, Gohan is more powerful, but Goku has been able to hold his own against more powerful opponents in the past.

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It has also been shown many times that if Goku is backed into a corner, he is capable of reaching incredible new levels of power.

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Of course, we know that Gohan does the same, and that goes to show he is indeed the son of Goku.

Aside from strength, Gohan has one huge advantage over Super Saiyan 3 Goku that has not yet been mentioned. Gohan’s power would not deplete as quickly as Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

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Remember that Goku admitted to Vegeta that even though he can go Super Saiyan 3; he can only hold the form for a short amount of time.

For fans who say that Super Saiyan 3 Goku is more powerful than Ultimate Gohan, I ask you this one question: Could Goku defeat his son before his Super Saiyan 3 power depletes?

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With a well placed Warp Kamehameha, I think that he could deal some heavy damage. Either way, I think this would be a tough battle.

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Super Saiyan Goku was holding his own so against Ultimate Gohan…well it was Buu’s thought form of Ultimate Gohan. Not to mention it was a filler scene, but I wanted to mention this because I know someone would say something about it in the comment section.

Something to remember about this fight was that Goku was getting exhausted, but Gohan was a thought form meaning that he could not be damaged or weakened so their battle is not really something to be used as solid evidence for this subject.

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Ultimate Gohan’s power is his maximum potential brought out to the surface, and it does not deplete his ki supply like a Super Saiyan 3 transformation would. Goku even says that Gohan’s power was higher than it was ever was even when his son was a Super Saiyan.

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The one moment that we could have and should have seen these 2 fighting was right after Gohan powered up after Old Kai unlocked his potential.

Just as Goku showed Goten and Trunks how to go Super Saiyan 3 before going back to the land of the dead, I think he should have battled Gohan before his son returned to the land of the living.

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Would have been a great touch as to how Goku shows his love for his children in the best way that he knows how.

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Buutenks reverting back to Buuccolo was another moment in the anime and manga that differed. In the anime, Goku was at Super Saiyan 3, but was doing what he could just to keep up with Buu. Fans argue that he was stalling for Gohan to find the Potara Earring. In the manga, this “fight” never happened; Buutenks went to Buuccolo without fighting Goku.

However, for fans who think Goku was more powerful than Buutenks: why would Goku want or need to permanently fuse with Ultimate Gohan…if he had the power to do it solo?

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In the manga and anime, Goku states that Gohan could defeat Buuccolo all by himself. The way he says that does seem to imply that Goku was disappointed in Buu’s drastic drop in power. I mean Goku was in a tense situation because he was desperate to fuse with Gohan, but now he was in a position where fusion was not needed because Gohan could win alone.

Really it is all up to personal interpretation about how Goku said what he said about Gohan beating Buu. I will admit that it does seem like Goku is saying that he could take Buu himself, but really I just do not think that this is the case.

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One last piece of evidence that fans like to bring up is the fact that Goku’s Ki was sensed from the Sacred Land of the Kais from Earth.

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However, when Gohan unleashed his new power, Buu was the ONLY person in the lower realm (Earth) to take notice of his power.

I think that ki sensing somehow works in reverse when it comes to comparing the lower realm (land of the living) and the other world (land of the dead).

On Supreme Kai’s planet, it makes sense that they could sense an extremely high power level from earth. However, it also makes sense that an extremely high power from the Kai planet could not be sensed from earth.

Remember that in the anime, Goku mentioned that Kid Buu was using Instant Transmission. That was how he found other planets with high ki readings during his hunt for Goku and Vegeta.

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In the manga, it was mentioned that he was using the “Kai Kai” or Instantaneous Moment used by Kibito Kai. This is a teleporting technique that does not require a ki signature for the user to transport to. This explains how in the manga, Kid Buu regenerated from his Planet Burst move on earth, and then went instantly to Supreme Kai’s planet to fight the Saiyans.

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Compared to the anime, Kid Buu sensed Goku and Vegeta when they raised their power levels to draw Buu to their location. He was on Grand Kai’s planet during that moment, and it made sense that he could track their powers since he was in the other world just as they were.

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What does this have to do with Buu sensing Gohan’s power from earth? Well Super Buu is an interesting being because he detected Gohan’s power, but Piccolo nor the boys (Goten and Trunks) were able to sense it. Perhaps it is because he is a powerful being that he could track a power that a Namek could not? Either way, it could be because Gohan was in the middle of a magical ceremony that his power was more “contained” when he unleashed it when compared to a Super Saiyan transformation.

I mean Gohan was on the verge of damaging the Kai planet by powering up, and Goku was on the verge of ripping apart the earth. The main difference was that Goku was not using Super Saiyan 3 for the first time, and he was “putting on a show” in order to stall for Trunks to find the Dragon Radar.

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We later saw that he could go Super Saiyan 3 in an instant as he did against Buutenks.

Gohan was doing the “Super Saiyan thing” as Old Kai put it in order to unleash his true power. So, I can see why the lower realm would have a difficult time tracking a high ki signature from the land of the dead.

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How else can you explain no one on earth sensing Goku’s power when he first unlocked Super Saiyan 3 during his time on Grand Kai’s planet?

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In the end, I think that Gohan has the power to win, but Goku has the skill to stay alive until he finds a weakness in Gohan’s defenses in order to land some powerful hits.

What do you think about this? Do you feel that Gohan’s power is superior, or does Super Saiyan 3 Goku have the power to surpass his son?

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DBZ: How Powerful Was Future Gohan?

By Jeremy Carden

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One of the most popular characters in the Dragon Ball franchise and a fan favorite among the many incarnations of Goku’s son Gohan is his persona from the timeline of Future Trunks.

After Dr. Gero’s androids emerged and began killing the inhabitants of the earth, Gohan was the last warrior standing to combat this deadly threat.

Eventually, Gohan fell to the power of the android duo and the fate of the world rested on the shoulders of Future Trunks. However, the question still remains regarding how powerful Future Gohan actually was.

Many fans are curious as to how a 23-year-old Gohan was unable to go any further than the regular Super Saiyan transformation.

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Despite being in an apocalyptic world and fighting/training for 13 years on his own, there are significant differences between his persona from the timeline we know of where he ascended to a Super Saiyan 2 and killed Cell ending the android threat to the world and the timeline of Trunks’ future where the androids were destroying the planet.

We know that Gohan was the last warrior who survived after the future versions of Android #17 and #18 attacked the earth and the Z-Fighters were killed during the battle.

He tells Trunks that the anger he felt over remembering how unfair it was for his friends to die to the androids was what fueled his rage enough for him to finally become a Super Saiyan.

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Something that we never learn and what could add a lot of information to this topic is when exactly Gohan became a Super Saiyan. He told Trunks that seeing his friends getting killed by #17 and #18 created the necessary emotions for him to ascend doesn’t give us that much of a way to pinpoint his ascension. It could be argued that he was present during the big battle and saw the Z-Team getting killed right before his eyes. From there he somehow escaped and remembering the fear, despair and anger of that battle caused him to become a Super Saiyan.

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You could also argue that he did not ascend until later in his life as a teenager after he decided to devote his life to training and protecting the earth. During the scene where we see Future Chi-Chi and Future Ox-King, it was mentioned that after the androids attacked the earth, Gohan devoted his life to avenge the death of his friends. We can assume that he gave up his mother’s dreams for him to become a scholar to go into his “father’s work” to protect the earth. That means no more endless days at his desk studying and doing homework, Gohan was training full time in order to defeat the androids!

Whatever the case maybe, we know that Gohan was alone in his training. Compared to the Gohan of the present, Future Gohan did not go inside of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Goku for a year (well not a full year but close to one) and he did not have 3 years of intense training prior to the androids arrival with Goku and Piccolo.

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So we can assume that the Future Gohan we see at the beginning of the History of Trunks special was weaker than the Gohan of the same age before the androids arrive.

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Considering that Gohan did not have experienced warriors to assist him in his training, it was all a solo effort in an attempt to raise his skills high enough to take down the androids. Personally, I thought it was strange that no one told Future Gohan about the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. I know that everyone who knew about it (Goku, Piccolo and Kami) had all died, but through the use of King Kai’s telepathy or Mr. Popo contacting Gohan directly they could have informed him of the room and he could have used that for intense training. However, I guess that would make too much sense and this is DB we are talking about here…

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Based on what we learned from the manga and anime special, the only form of combat training that Gohan received that involved another powerful being was when he fought with androids on multiple occasions. According to Ox-King, Gohan encountered the killer bots many times before we see him fight them at the amusement park and in the destroyed city where they finally kill him.

Since the androids do not have a Ki signature for him to sense, it can be assumed that Gohan would arrive on the scene of an android attack. Whenever they were demolishing a city or going on a killing spree, Gohan could probably sense a drastic disappearance of minor Ki signatures (the innocent people being killed off).

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I say this because thinking back to Namek, Gohan and the others could sense whenever Vegeta or one of Frieza’s men was killing a village of Nameks from faraway. With that being said, I think the same is true about the androids whenever they killed people “for fun.”

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Gohan would probably arrive on the scene and engage the androids in battle and escape when things got too overwhelming for him. It was 1 warrior against 2 androids who had superior power, but the fact that he could escape to fight another day says a lot about Gohan’s speed and evasion tactics. Not to mention the androids were not capable of sensing his Ki signature to track him down.

You could say that the androids were playing cat and mouse with him just as Future Trunks told Goku when he described how they enjoyed hunting him down.

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Considering that the Zenkai boost was still in play, Gohan would possibly get more powerful after each android encounter if he suffered a major injury and recovered.  Similar to how he had major power boosts on Namek while fighting the Ginyu Force or Frieza, we can assume that healing from android attacks increased his power. Then fighting them and training between bouts increased his skill.

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While dining at Bulma’s house where she comments on how Gohan reminded her so much of his late father Goku, Gohan says that he wears his dad’s old colors to inspire him to become stronger.

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Overall, I think Future Trunks is the best way of figuring out how powerful Future Gohan was. Before going to the past to deliver the heart medicine to Goku and warn him of the upcoming android threat, Bulma says that Trunks is just about as powerful as Gohan was before he died 3 years ago.

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Now here is where there is a slight difference between the anime and the manga. In the anime special, Bulma says this prior to Trunks going to attack the androids while they were destroying a city. After somehow surviving #18’s powerful Masenko-like Ki attack, Trunks was stuck in bed healing for weeks practically near death from that fierce battle. Going off of that fact, we can figure that the Zenkai boost he got from that recovery was huge!

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Similar to how Gohan got a Zenkai boost after losing an arm and nearly his life saving Trunks from the androids in the amusement park, Trunks’ power must have increased dramatically.

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However, this battle never took place in the manga but when it comes to his arrival in the past the description of his power is the same. While the Z-Fighters were stunned from the powers they were sensing from where Frieza landed his ship with his father King Cold, Gohan was quick to comment that the power he felt (while Trunks was transforming into a Super Saiyan) was the same that he felt from Goku on Namek.

What does this mean?

Super Saiyan Future Trunks was pretty much equal in terms of power to Super Saiyan Goku when he first transformed on Namek while fighting Frieza.

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Now the official power level listing of Goku as a Super Saiyan was 150,000,000 so Trunks was around that level of power or practically 150 million on the nose.

What does this say about Future Gohan?

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Well Future Bulma said that Trunks was ABOUT as powerful as Gohan was before he got killed by the androids. This could mean that Future Gohan was slightly more powerful than Frieza Saga Super Saiyan Goku.

This is not surprising considering the Zenkai boost he received from that battle in the amusement park was probably very huge.

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Keep in mind that Goku was probably a lot more powerful when he arrived on earth from his 1 ½ years of being in space. After the battle on Namek, Goku was pretty banged up and landed on Yardrat. We can assume that he gained a Zenkai boost raising his base power of 3,000,000 and Super Saiyan power of 150,000,000 to new heights.

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On top of that, he trained on Yardrat in order to learn how to turn Super Saiyan at will while also picking up the Instant Transmission technique. So the neck and neck power levels of Super Saiyan Goku on Namek and Future Trunks was now leaning in Goku’s favor.

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I also think that Goku was more powerful than Future Gohan, but that is debatable. In any case, we can place Future Gohan in-between Future Trunks when he first arrives in the past and Goku post-Yardrat training/Zenkai boost.

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Keep in mind that the #17 and #18 of the future were stated by Trunks to be much weaker than the androids of the present. That is because in his future timeline, he could hold his own against them. However in the present, he was knocked out in two blows from the androids.

Since Future Gohan was holding his own against the androids before being killed that says a lot. Of course, we arrive at another difference between the manga and anime in regards to how Gohan was killed and the power of the androids.

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#17 says in their last encounter he wasn’t even using half of his power. In the battle where Gohan was killed, it was assumed that the android(s) were at maximum or full power because #17 said he wasn’t going to hold back this time.

Alright in the manga, it was only #17 who was shown to attack Gohan (who had a stunned look on his face when #17 said he wasn’t using his full power in their last fight) and in the next panel he was already dead when Trunks arrived on the scene.

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In the anime, not only does Gohan fight both androids but he holds his own for quite awhile even with only ONE of his arms! When I first saw this fight and how well Gohan was doing, I honestly thought he was going to win. It wasn’t until the androids ganged up on him did he start to become overwhelmed and was eventually killed.

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Also looking back at his battle with #17 at the amusement park in the anime special, Gohan was on the receiving end of attack for quite some time but eventually he fought back and gained the upper hand. It wasn’t until #18 stepped in did he start to get beaten.

Depending on how you want to look at the amusement park and the city battle, in terms of whether or not #17 was using half or his full power it seems like Gohan had the power to match and defeat at least one of the androids.

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I really believe that if Gohan fought 1-on-1 with #17 or #18 he would be able to destroy them. The reason I say this is because Gohan is a warrior, but the androids were normal humans who were transformed into cyborgs by Dr. Gero. Due to his skill and experience, Gohan would be more efficient in tactical strategy and technique in order to overcome his possibly more powerful foes. This is evident in the fact that he could somehow escape each encounter with the androids to live to fight another day.

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Future Gohan is much more brutal and vicious than his present-self in terms of combat because let’s face it, the present Gohan lived in a generally peaceful timeline but in the future he lived in Hell. All of that battling and violence right before his eyes truly showed him the darker side of existence and the kind-hearted Gohan he was as a child was gone.

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I’m not saying he still isn’t the sweet and understanding Gohan that he is in the present, but he isn’t cowardly and timid. Bulma says that Gohan is just like Goku who was powerful but gentle at the same time.

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In case anyone wanted to make the comparison, it is true that Vegeta in the present was more of a warrior than #18 but was still beaten to a pulp. However, keep in mind that despite #18 being more powerful it was Vegeta who was fighting sloppy and letting pride blind his skill that ultimately led to his defeat.

Future Gohan knows how to keep his cool in combat against the prideful #17 which causes the android to take some embarrassing attacks that Gohan lands on him when he is off guard allowing him to take control of the battle.

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With all of that being said, I believe that Future Gohan at the time of his final battle and demise was probably around the power of Goku when he arrived back on earth from his training on Yardart. Keep in mind that the difference of the timelines began when Goku arrived back on earth and killed Mecha Frieza and King Cold in Trunks’ timeline. Also remember that this Goku was equal in power to the one we see in the Trunks Saga.

Do you agree? If not, how powerful do you think Future Gohan was?

How powerful is Frieza?

by Jeremy Carden

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It has been confirmed that Frieza’s maximum power level was 120 million during his fight on Namek with Super Saiyan Goku who had a maximum power level of 150 million.

The topic behind this blog is to get some kind of understanding on some of the things that Frieza says regarding his power and some of his forms that we never see the maximum potential for.

Here is what we do know about the tyrant’s power:

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  • Frieza’s 1st form

Frieza stated himself that his power level in this form was 530,000. He tells Nail this when the Namekian Warrior with a 42,000 power level tries to stall for Krillin, Dende and Gohan to use the Dragonballs.

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  • Frieza’s 2nd form

After transforming in response to Vegeta’s taunts, Frieza tells the shocked Saiyan that his power level is over 1 million.

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  • Frieza’s 100% form

As I mentioned above, it is confirmed that his power level is 120,000,000. However, due to the strain that his maximum power puts on his body that number was decreasing the longer his battle with Super Saiyan Goku went on which explains how Goku was controlling the fight more and more with each blow thrown.

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  • Mecha Frieza

It is stated by the doctors who repaired/rebuilt/healed Frieza in King Cold’s ship that Frieza was now capable of experiencing levels of power that he would not have been able to achieve in his purely organic body.

While flying to the area where Frieza would be arriving, Vegeta sensed that Frieza’s power level had increased from the battle on Namek but so had his own.

One has to wonder if he is basing this off of the power he detected from Frieza during his battle with him OR did he actually compare the power that he sensed from Mecha Frieza to 100% Frieza?

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Remember after being revived by Shenron, Vegeta saw Goku and Frieza fighting. He flew to the scene as soon as he caught sight of the dragon of Namek and right before being teleported back to Earth due to Dende’s wish he attempted to blast Frieza.

So it is not confirmed whether or not Vegeta was stating that Frieza’s power was more than his final form or his final form at 100%

That pretty much covers Frieza’s power at least from what we do know. Here are a few things that we DON’T know about his power:

  1. In his 2nd form, how much over 1 million was Frieza’s form?
  2. How powerful was his 3rd form?
  3. When telling Goku that he was only fighting at 1% of his power, was it a bluff or the truth?
  4. Which form was more powerful 100% Frieza or Mecha Frieza?

I think by looking at facts from the anime and manga we can figure out the answers to these questions in order to pinpoint a few things about Frieza.

1. If I had to make an educated guess, I’d wager that Frieza’s 2nd form was somewhere in between 1,500,000-1,700,000

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We know that Piccolo (after fusing with Nail) was also over 1 million given the fact that he was actually able to hold his own against Frieza even with his weighted clothing. Once he removed them, Piccolo proved to be much faster than the tyrant suggesting that if Frieza did not transform into form 3 that the Namek might have actually won the battle.

2. Frieza’s 3rd form is at least 2,500,000

After transforming, not only did Frieza “heal” from his injuries during the battle in his 2nd form (except for this tail being sliced) but he was EASILY able to overpower Piccolo

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Not only that, Piccolo’s trademark speed was no match for the big-headed (literally) tyrant who outmaneuvered the Namekian before nearly blasting him to death with his Crazy Finger Beam!

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Even after receiving his Zenkai boost from Krillin’s attack and Dende’s healing, I’m not sure if Vegeta could defeat 3rd form Frieza. I do think he’d do much better against that form than Final Form Frieza.

Considering Vegeta could see Frieza’s invincible Ki blasts when no one else did demonstrated how much of a difference there was in his power level now when compared to Piccolo, Gohan and Krillin. Despite being faster than Piccolo, 3rd form Frieza would probably be matched by Vegeta (possibly).

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Think of it like this; Gohan’s giant Masenko blast almost overwhelmed Frieza. When I first saw that scene, I truly believed that Gohan was going to win and if not for Frieza’s tail (what was left of it) holding him up so he could deflect the blast back, I don’t think he would have survived it. Well at least the attack would have done a lot of damage if he had survived the explosion.

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Fed up with being unable to hit Frieza with one attack, Vegeta used the Final Burst Cannon which was more than enough to blow up the planet. Frieza deflected it with one simple kick with less effort than it took for him to deflected Gohan’s attack in 3rd form.

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This could show how much of a gap there was in power from 3rd form to final form. Piccolo nearly crapped himself upon seeing Frieza’s final form but took on his 3rd form without fear (until he found himself unable to keep up).

So I’d say 3rd form Frieza is around 2,500,000 considering that 2nd form Frieza is at least twice more powerful than 1st form. I’m guessing the same is somewhat true about 3rd form when compared to 2nd form.

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3. I think that Frieza was bluffing when he told Goku that he was only using 1% of his power before using 50% to easily overpower Goku.

Here is why: Frieza’s maximum power is 120,000,000 so what is 1% of 120 million?

Answer: 1,200,000

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1,200,000 is around the power of his 2nd form which is said to be what? Over 1 million!

Goku’s base power after healing in the rejuvenation machine in Frieza’s ship was 3 million which was a huge jump from his level of 90,000 after training in 100x gravity.

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However, that is the “magic” of writing…I mean a Saiyan’s Zenkai ability making them much stronger after near death experiences.

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When the battle first stated, Goku and Frieza were more or less even with each other. Goku was able to handle whatever it was that Frieza dished out.

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Even Frieza could not battle against the Saiyan without using his hands as he gave to Goku as a “handicap.”

Let’s look at another detail that will make Frieza’s statement even more of a bluff; King Kai said that Goku was using the Kaio-Ken the ENTIRE fight!

At that point, Goku’s maximum level was a 10x Kaio-Ken after training in 100x gravity.

So, one can assume that Goku raised his power using the 10x Kaio-Ken right here:

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This picture is right before Goku stepped up to face Frieza who was torturing Vegeta.

One question though: if Goku was powering up using the Kaio-Ken, why isn’t he surrounded by crimson aura like in his other uses of the form?

Well remember when Goku was “fighting” Burter and Jeice?

Vegeta noticed that Goku was dodging their attacks easily by raising his power level only when necessary in order to conserve his energy for the “real opponents” (Captain Ginyu & Frieza).

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He was doing it so quickly that their Scouters were unable to pick it up. When he first arrived on the battlefield they recorded his power at only 5,000 despite his TRUE power being 90,000.

Goku could have either used the 10x Kaio-Ken rising his power to 50,000 and above only when necessary and learned how to do so without the outward physical changes.

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Want another example? Remember in Hell, Goku had a Full Power Super Saiyan aura while in base form. His only physical changes were his hand standing on end and the aura appearing.

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His eyes did not change color nor did his hair. This is mainly due to him “hiding” his true power from Pikkon and also take note of how it was the Super Saiyan 1 form that he had mastered previously giving even more understanding of how he could “transform” without fully transforming.

Similar to using the Kaio-Ken at a level 10 without his outward aura changing because remember after he finished his training, he figured that his durability and stamina had increased so much that he could raise his Kaio-Ken to 10!

With that being said, when the fight first began Goku’s power level was at 30 million.

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Now with Frieza pretty much going blow for blow with the Saiyan that means he was fighting with a power level of AT LEAST 30 million as well.

By doing the math, we can calculate that Frieza had been using 25% of his maximum to fight with Goku because 25% of 120 million is 30 million meaning that Frieza WAS bluffing!

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Later on, when he guesses that Goku was holding back power he assumes maybe 5x or even 10x was what Goku was hiding; pretty accurate assumption because Goku was fighting at 10x Kaio-Ken and he later pumped it up to 20x so indeed Goku was “hiding” another 10x increase of his power. Frieza is smarter than he looks….

Frieza decides to show off 50% of his power and according to him he has never had to use that much power in order to finish a fight.

Of course, Goku was not to be outdone and with a montage of the people he was fighting for playing through his head, he powers up to Kaio-Ken x20!

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That boosted his power to 60 million which is equal to Frieza at 50%!

Here is the thing though; I feel that Goku’s power was quickly slipping away during his melee assault on Frieza.

Why?

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Whenever Goku uses a Ki attack like the Kamehameha his power level nearly doubles. His body was not in a condition to handle that much power at once. The Kaio-Ken as King Kai put it will wreck the user’s body if used at a level too high for the person to sustain.

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Goku was heavily damaged by Frieza so that explains why he seemed to “rush” his assault in order to take out Frieza as fast as he could.

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However, Frieza was able to block it with a one handed Ki attack.

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Don’t get me wrong, Frieza did not have an easy time blocking it similar to Raditz blocking Goku’s Kamehameha with one hand. Except in Frieza’s case, his hand was left scorched by the attack!

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4. Finally, this is the one question fans have been debating: which form was more powerful 100% Full Power Frieza or Mecha Frieza?

After going back and forth on the matter, I believe that Mecha Frieza IS capable of a higher power level than 100% Frieza BUT we really don’t see the limits of it.

What do I mean by that?

Well Super Saiyan Future Trunks was easily able to dispatch of Frieza and his father.

No matter what Frieza threw at the Saiyan, Trunks was easily able to take it with no problem before finally slicing and dicing the robotic tyrant.

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I mean even Frieza’s ultimate attack (the Supernova) was no match for Trunks who caught the blast with one hand and even avoided the explosion with ease after Frieza detonated the bomb.

Though it is never confirmed just how powerful Mecha Frieza is, we can assume that he would still be no match for Super Saiyan Goku on Namek who had a power level of 150,000,000.

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The reason I say this is because I do not think that in his first appearance in the series, Future Trunks would not be able to defeat Super Saiyan Goku from the Frieza Saga.

I do feel that Super Saiyan Trunks is more powerful than Frieza’s level on Namek of 120 million meaning that whether or not he had his sword he could have killed Frieza.

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Also, Frieza said that since he and his father could take on Goku together, the Super Saiyan would not be a match for them.

But…in Trunks’ timeline this was not the case. Goku teleported to the scene using Instant Transmission before Frieza could make a move against Earth and killed the two before they could pose a threat to Earth.

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The same was going to happen in the present, but Goku said that before he could make his move he felt Trunks’ presence.

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As I said before, I DO think that Mecha Frieza is capable of powers higher than 120 million but by how much was never seen because Trunks made Frieza look like nothing and by doing so we don’t see what Frieza’s new body was truly capable of but I bet we can agree that no matter how powerful he had become it still failed to be anything that would give a Super Saiyan a difficult time.

What makes a major difference is that I could see Mecha Frieza being able to sustain the power of 120 million without the strain on the body that the purely organic Frieza seemed to experience. If there was some “multiverse battle” between Mecha and 100% Frieza, I think Mecha would win due to that advantage.

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I hope this helps to clear any of the things that were left unexplained in terms of how powerful Frieza was. I thought it best to forget about trying to figure out how powerful Frieza was in GT, when Pikkon beat him in Hell or Fusion Reborn given how easily he was defeated. He was once the most powerful being in the universe (well in his mind anyway) but after dying he was just comic relief or an easy kill most likely to show how far the Z-Fighters have come since the Frieza Saga.

Any other thoughts on how powerful Frieza is?