Dragon Ball Z: Is Super Saiyan 3 Goku More Powerful Than Ultimate Gohan?

By Jeremy Carden

There is a battle that has caused a lot of tension within the fan base of the Dragon Ball series. I have seen many blogs and videos about this particular subject. Fans have debated about Gogeta vs. Vegito, Kid Buu vs. Super Buu (Ultimate Gohan absorbed) and Goku vs. Superman.

However, the topic of this blog will focus on the ultimate battle between Goku and Gohan.

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While reading this blog, please remember that I will be discussing Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Ultimate Gohan (also called Mystic Gohan by some fans) from the Majin Buu Saga.

This blog will not include anything between the time of Kid Buu’s death and the ending of DBZ when Goku leaves with Uub.

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That means nothing about Super Saiyan God or Dragon Ball GT will be included in this blog.

Let’s get this battle started! As with most of my “Who would win?” blogs, I will start this one by expressing my thoughts right off the bat. I feel that in terms of power alone; Gohan is the winner.

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Does that mean he would win? Yes…and no. Just because Gohan is more powerful than Goku does not mean that he would win.

At this point, some readers are probably shaking their heads at my belief that Ultimate Gohan is more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

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Before I go any further, I just want to say that this blog is based on my own personal opinion. If you feel that Goku is more powerful than Gohan then you are entitled to your opinion. From this point on in the blog, I will attempt to use facts from the manga AND anime in order to get my point across. I would love to hear your thoughts in the comments below after finishing this blog, and you can tell me if I have persuaded you that Gohan is more powerful.

Believe it or not, when it comes down to determining which warrior is more powerful; you have to examine which form of Majin Buu is more powerful. The 2 Buus that I am talking about are Super Buu and Kid Buu.

The reason that I picked out these forms of Buu is because they are the Buus that Goku and Gohan battled the hardest against.

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If you have ever read my very first DBZ blog about which form of Buu is the most powerful, then you know that I feel that Super Buu (Ultimate Gohan absorbed) is the strongest, and Kid Buu is far from #1.

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In any case, we know that Kid Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Goku are more or less equals. It was mentioned that if Goku had started off the fight at 100%, and did not hold back so that Vegeta would have a chance to fight; he could have killed Kid Buu.

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He mentioned the same about his battle with Fat Buu, but in that case he was not holding back for Vegeta’s sake. In that fight, he was holding back in order for Gohan, Goten and Trunks to have a shot at fighting for the planet. However, unlike the battle with Kid Buu, it was clear that he was holding back (a lot) during his fight with Fat Buu. He did not battle to the point of exhausted as he did against Kid Buu.

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When talking about two fighters who were more or less equals, Super Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks seem to fit that category very nicely. Gotenks was playing around with Buu during their fight, and it was literally a back and forth conflict. Each fighter was able to take a blow, and dish one back out to their opponent! You could argue that Buu was holding back because he was waiting for Gohan to arrive, but it is clear he and Gotenks were on the same plateau of power.

It was Buu’s regeneration powers and endurance that kept the young Super Saiyan 3 from putting him down for the count. However, when Gotenks was about to kill Buu for good, his power ran out and his Fusion ended.

Alright, so we know that Goku and Gotenks had the power to completely annihilate the pink menace that they battled against. They just held back for different reasons; Goku for his respect of Vegeta’s pride, and Gotenks’ cocky nature.

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This leads us to Goku’s comment to Vegeta before they escaped from Super Buu’s head. He mentioned that neither of them could survive if Buu fought them after leaving his body. Fusion was the only way that he and Vegeta would stand a chance.

Goku was literally saying that he was NOT powerful enough to destroy Super Buu if they had to battle him!

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Remember that Ultimate Gohan mopped the floor with Super Buu. He did not even use ki attacks against the pink titan, he was using nothing but melee attacks to push Buu into a corner.

This leads to another point about how powerful Buu became after absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo. We have established that Gohan is more powerful than Super Buu, and this means he is clearly more powerful than Gotenks.

He took Buu apart without much effort, but Gotenks was literally kept on his toes by Buu’s power. So, after absorbing Gotenks, we can assume that Buu’s power pretty much doubled in power.

I think we can conclude that Buu’s absorption technique is a power-up that takes the person(s) absorbed, and adds their power to Buu’s.

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With that being said, “Buutenks” had a power that was over double what it was before. Keep in mind that Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks were pretty much even, and he took Piccolo’s power too (though the Namek’s absorption was more about adding his intelligence to Buu rather than his overall power).

In the anime, Gohan and Buu were on par with each other. It was not until Buu starting using “the Piccolo in him” to chip away at Gohan’s confidence, and that led to him being completely overpowered.

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Unlike the anime, the manga portrayal of Buutenks vs. Gohan was showing Buu’s power to be something that Gohan stood absolutely no chance against.

It appears that Gohan was indeed superior to Buu and Gotenks, but less than twice their power. I would say that he was probably somewhere between 1.2-1.5 times more powerful than Super Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.

Where does this leave Goku?

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Another blog that I wrote awhile back was concerning the subject of Super Gotenks’ power compared to Goku’s. In that blog, I talked about my thoughts on how even a Super Saiyan 1 Gotenks had power that was superior to Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

Why would I say that?

Remember that Goku originally declined killing the Fat Buu because he wanted the boys to save the world instead of relying on him (since he was dead, Goku did not feel it was his right to step in as a savior to the planet).

He taught the boys the Fusion Dance, and felt that it would be the ONLY way of defeating Buu. Trunks asked why he did not teach them Super Saiyan 3 because if he and Goten teamed up at that level then they would beat Buu for sure. However, Goku told them that Fusion was the ONLY way.

After seeing how sad they were, he showed them Super Saiyan 3 before leaving with Baba. In my opinion, I feel that Goku thought that Goten and Trunks fused as Super Saiyans would be enough to defeat Buu (without the need for a Super Saiyan 3 transformation). Goku knew that level 3 was something not meant to be used in the living world due to the rapid ki depletion that it causes for the user outside of other world.

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Considering that he had just fought Buu himself at Super Saiyan 3, I think that Goku knew for a fact that a Super Saiyan 1 Fusion would be enough to kill Buu. This means that it is safe to conclude that Super Saiyan Gotenks (pre-Time Chamber) was in the same realm of power as Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

Let’s take things a step further in order to analyze just how powerful Gotenks was. After training in the Time Chamber for 30 minutes on the outside world before Super Buu lost his patience (which equals just about 7 and a half days inside of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber), Gotenks’ power was said to have increased dramatically.

I think that if there was a gap between pre-Time Chamber Super Saiyan Gotenks and Super Saiyan 3 Goku; that gap was closed after the children’s 7.5 days of training.

I dare say that Gotenks may have become even more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. By how much was never determined, but for the sake of simplicity (without downplaying either of their power levels), let’s say that Super Saiyan 1 Gotenks and Super Saiyan 3 Goku were even.

Going Super Saiyan 2 doubles the power of a Super Saiyan 1, and going Super Saiyan 3 multiples the power of a Super Saiyan 2 by four.

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Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks (at minimum) is 8 times more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

Ultimate Gohan is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks (who is more or less on the same playing field as Super Buu), but not twice as powerful.

Overall, Goku is not as powerful as Gotenks and Gohan. However, his original goal of having the boys measure up to their destinies as the protectors of the planet was realized. His intention was making them even more powerful than he was in order to save the earth from Buu.

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This same goal was similar to Goku’s plans of having Gohan exceed his power to save the world from Cell.

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Not to mention that Piccolo’s goal during the Saiyan Saga was training Gohan to become more powerful than him as well!

In any case, I think I have spelled out why I feel that Ultimate Gohan’s power is clearly superior to his father’s even at Super Saiyan 3.

Considering that Gohan is more powerful than his dad, you are probably wondering whether or not Gohan would be named as the winner before the battle even began.

I say that despite being more powerful, Gohan would not easily win the battle. This is mainly due to Goku being the superior fighter.

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Looking back at the DBZ series, I feel that Gohan’s power and combat skills were at their peak during the Cell Games.

True, Old Kai unlocked ALL of his hidden powers, but that would not unlock his combat skills and fighting instincts.

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Vegeta mentioned that Gohan’s power was a lot higher as a child, and this was when he witnessed Gohan power up to show Kibito the Super Saiyan 2 level.

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While watching his son fight with Dabura, Goku even brings up the fact that Gohan’s fighting sense was lost during his 7 years of no training.

After the battle with Cell, Gohan pretty much neglected his training in favor of studying. The end result was that his 11-year-old persona was more powerful both in strength and in fighting abilities.

Compare this to Goku, he trained for 7 years straight against warriors from across space and time during his stay on the Grand Kai’s planet.

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Before he slacked off in his training, Gohan knew everything that his father had to teach him. Their training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber allowed Gohan to pick up on his father’s technique and surpass his power.

If Ultimate Gohan fought against Super Saiyan 3 Goku, I’d say that Goku would be able to not only predict what Gohan would do next, but outsmart him as well during combat. Goku taught Gohan nearly everything that he knows about fighting.

Piccolo was the only other person to train Gohan. Krillin and Gohan did “mind training” on their trip to Namek, but we know that his father and “Big Green Uncle” were his primary instructors.

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Keep in mind that Goku spent 3 years training alongside Gohan and Piccolo. This means that he has seen everything that Gohan knows about fighting and enhanced his son’s skills in the Time Chamber.

Again, Gohan is more powerful, but Goku has been able to hold his own against more powerful opponents in the past.

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It has also been shown many times that if Goku is backed into a corner, he is capable of reaching incredible new levels of power.

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Of course, we know that Gohan does the same, and that goes to show he is indeed the son of Goku.

Aside from strength, Gohan has one huge advantage over Super Saiyan 3 Goku that has not yet been mentioned. Gohan’s power would not deplete as quickly as Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

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Remember that Goku admitted to Vegeta that even though he can go Super Saiyan 3; he can only hold the form for a short amount of time.

For fans who say that Super Saiyan 3 Goku is more powerful than Ultimate Gohan, I ask you this one question: Could Goku defeat his son before his Super Saiyan 3 power depletes?

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With a well placed Warp Kamehameha, I think that he could deal some heavy damage. Either way, I think this would be a tough battle.

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Super Saiyan Goku was holding his own so against Ultimate Gohan…well it was Buu’s thought form of Ultimate Gohan. Not to mention it was a filler scene, but I wanted to mention this because I know someone would say something about it in the comment section.

Something to remember about this fight was that Goku was getting exhausted, but Gohan was a thought form meaning that he could not be damaged or weakened so their battle is not really something to be used as solid evidence for this subject.

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Ultimate Gohan’s power is his maximum potential brought out to the surface, and it does not deplete his ki supply like a Super Saiyan 3 transformation would. Goku even says that Gohan’s power was higher than it was ever was even when his son was a Super Saiyan.

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The one moment that we could have and should have seen these 2 fighting was right after Gohan powered up after Old Kai unlocked his potential.

Just as Goku showed Goten and Trunks how to go Super Saiyan 3 before going back to the land of the dead, I think he should have battled Gohan before his son returned to the land of the living.

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Would have been a great touch as to how Goku shows his love for his children in the best way that he knows how.

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Buutenks reverting back to Buuccolo was another moment in the anime and manga that differed. In the anime, Goku was at Super Saiyan 3, but was doing what he could just to keep up with Buu. Fans argue that he was stalling for Gohan to find the Potara Earring. In the manga, this “fight” never happened; Buutenks went to Buuccolo without fighting Goku.

However, for fans who think Goku was more powerful than Buutenks: why would Goku want or need to permanently fuse with Ultimate Gohan…if he had the power to do it solo?

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In the manga and anime, Goku states that Gohan could defeat Buuccolo all by himself. The way he says that does seem to imply that Goku was disappointed in Buu’s drastic drop in power. I mean Goku was in a tense situation because he was desperate to fuse with Gohan, but now he was in a position where fusion was not needed because Gohan could win alone.

Really it is all up to personal interpretation about how Goku said what he said about Gohan beating Buu. I will admit that it does seem like Goku is saying that he could take Buu himself, but really I just do not think that this is the case.

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One last piece of evidence that fans like to bring up is the fact that Goku’s Ki was sensed from the Sacred Land of the Kais from Earth.

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However, when Gohan unleashed his new power, Buu was the ONLY person in the lower realm (Earth) to take notice of his power.

I think that ki sensing somehow works in reverse when it comes to comparing the lower realm (land of the living) and the other world (land of the dead).

On Supreme Kai’s planet, it makes sense that they could sense an extremely high power level from earth. However, it also makes sense that an extremely high power from the Kai planet could not be sensed from earth.

Remember that in the anime, Goku mentioned that Kid Buu was using Instant Transmission. That was how he found other planets with high ki readings during his hunt for Goku and Vegeta.

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In the manga, it was mentioned that he was using the “Kai Kai” or Instantaneous Moment used by Kibito Kai. This is a teleporting technique that does not require a ki signature for the user to transport to. This explains how in the manga, Kid Buu regenerated from his Planet Burst move on earth, and then went instantly to Supreme Kai’s planet to fight the Saiyans.

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Compared to the anime, Kid Buu sensed Goku and Vegeta when they raised their power levels to draw Buu to their location. He was on Grand Kai’s planet during that moment, and it made sense that he could track their powers since he was in the other world just as they were.

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What does this have to do with Buu sensing Gohan’s power from earth? Well Super Buu is an interesting being because he detected Gohan’s power, but Piccolo nor the boys (Goten and Trunks) were able to sense it. Perhaps it is because he is a powerful being that he could track a power that a Namek could not? Either way, it could be because Gohan was in the middle of a magical ceremony that his power was more “contained” when he unleashed it when compared to a Super Saiyan transformation.

I mean Gohan was on the verge of damaging the Kai planet by powering up, and Goku was on the verge of ripping apart the earth. The main difference was that Goku was not using Super Saiyan 3 for the first time, and he was “putting on a show” in order to stall for Trunks to find the Dragon Radar.

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We later saw that he could go Super Saiyan 3 in an instant as he did against Buutenks.

Gohan was doing the “Super Saiyan thing” as Old Kai put it in order to unleash his true power. So, I can see why the lower realm would have a difficult time tracking a high ki signature from the land of the dead.

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How else can you explain no one on earth sensing Goku’s power when he first unlocked Super Saiyan 3 during his time on Grand Kai’s planet?

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In the end, I think that Gohan has the power to win, but Goku has the skill to stay alive until he finds a weakness in Gohan’s defenses in order to land some powerful hits.

What do you think about this? Do you feel that Gohan’s power is superior, or does Super Saiyan 3 Goku have the power to surpass his son?

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

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Dragon Ball Super: Is Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan More Powerful Than Super Saiyan 4?

By Jeremy Carden

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Since Battle of Gods, DBZ fans have been debating about Super Saiyan 4 vs. Super Saiyan God.

With the new Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan transformation revealed, the debated has sparked even more controversy. Despite the ongoing debate between fans, there has been no clear definitive answer as to which form is superior.

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Most fans are quick to say that it does not matter how powerful Super Saiyan 4 is because GT is not canon. Not to mention with Dragon Ball Super on the horizon, it is set to “erase” GT from existence. I will get into my thoughts on that in another blog, but for now the focus will be on which Super Saiyan transformation is superior.

It has never been fully established how powerful these new forms are when compared to the standard Super Saiyan forms. Which forms am I referring to?

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These 3 below:

  • Super Saiyan God
  • Saiyan beyond God
  • Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan

Here is what we do know about the standard Super Saiyan forms:

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  • Super Saiyan 1 is 50 times more powerful than base form
  • Super Saiyan 2 is twice the power of a Super Saiyan (100 times base form)
  • Super Saiyan 3 is four times more powerful than Super Saiyan 2 (400 times base form)
  • Super Saiyan 4 is ten times more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 (4000 times base form)

The missing factor in all of this involves how much more powerful Super Saiyan God is when compared to Super Saiyan 3.

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We know that Beerus took out Super Saiyan 3 Goku with a simple flick to the forehead, and a well placed karate chop to a pressure point on Goku’s neck.

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However, Beerus tried this same karate chop on Super Saiyan God Goku, but it failed to work! This shows us that Goku’s power has increased to astounding new heights!

It was one of those blink-and-you-miss moments during the beginning of their battle.

In the end, 70% Beerus was able to defeat 80% Super Saiyan God Goku; remember that Goku never fought at 100% with his new power.

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Saiyan beyond God is a “form” that Goku and Vegeta reach after the events of Battle of Gods, and during their time as students under Whis.

A Saiyan prodigy who transforms into Super Saiyan God will revert back to base form after the Super Saiyan God form time limit runs out. However, they will absorb the power of the Super Saiyan God into their base form. This will result in the Saiyan becoming a Saiyan beyond God.

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It reminds me of Ultimate Gohan because in his “base form” he has far more power than he ever did as a Super Saiyan 1 or 2. The reason I say “base form” is because as Ultimate Gohan his outer appearance barely changes from his regular appearance.

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When it comes to Saiyan beyond God vs. the appearance of base Goku or Vegeta, the only change is the color of their aura. It becomes more of a milky white color when compared to their standard base form aura.

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When a Saiyan beyond God has access to the Super Saiyan transformation…they can become a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan!

It is unknown how much more powerful this makes a Saiyan beyond God, or how much more powerful this form is when compared to a Super Saiyan God.

Most fans are quick to assume that just like the standard Super Saiyan transformation; it increases a Saiyan’s power 50 times over the power of his base power. In this case, “base power” is considered Saiyan beyond God.

Wait, does that mean a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is 50 times the power of a Super Saiyan God?

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Saiyan beyond God is basically a Saiyan in base form that has mastered or absorbed the power of a Super Saiyan God into their body right?

Although it is not official, I can see why most fans would assume that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is superior to a Super Saiyan God by 50 times.

However, the Super Saiyan multiplier scale seems to conflict with Akira Toriyama’s own power scale for the gods.

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He stated his own personal belief on the power differences between the Battle of Gods characters below:

Super Saiyan God Goku is about a “6”, Beerus a “10” and Whis about a “15”.

To me this never made much sense, and please do not think that I am debating the word of the official creator of Dragon Ball Z. However, the key phrase here is that these levels are Akira’s “own personal belief.”

With that being said, I think it is fair for me (or any other fan for that matter) to have my own personal belief as well.

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As I mentioned before, Beerus was only fighting at 70% power when he battled Super Saiyan God Goku. The Saiyan never truly fought at 100% with his new godly power. His time limit in the form ran out before he could kick things up to full power.

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True, Beerus mentioned that Goku absorbed the power of the Super Saiyan God into his base form, and from there transformed into a Super Saiyan. That explained why he was able to fight on par with Beerus for some time, and he did not even notice that his Super Saiyan God fuel had burned out until Beerus mentioned it to him.

Some may argue that Goku fought Beerus as a Saiyan beyond God after his Super Saiyan God power fizzled out like a flat can of soda.

Others might mention that Goku fighting Beerus as a Full Power Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God was a potential foreshadowing of the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan!

Both are valid points, and I think they are worth mentioning.

Now here is where my opinion is slightly different than Akira’s own personal belief. If my math is mistaken, please feel free to let me know in the comment section below (and be respectful because we are all human, and mistakes can be made).

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If Beerus (at 70% power) was fighting Super Saiyan God Goku (at 80% power), wouldn’t this imply that Beerus is at best only 10% more powerful than Super Saiyan God Goku?

That conflicts with Goku being a 6, and Beerus being a 10. The gap of 4 seems to imply much more than a 10% difference in strength. My opinion is that Akira did not write Battle of Gods with the intention of having an exact measuring system of power levels.

Remember that they were only introduced into the series so the characters and fans would come to realize how useless they really were.

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Considering that Trunks at level 5 was the last power level scanned in the series, I am sure that we can assume that in the interview, Akira did not have an exact figure in his head regarding the power of the gods. We just know that Whis is more powerful than Beerus, and Beerus is more powerful than Goku.

To me, Full Power Super Saiyan Goku (with the power of Super Saiyan God) was not as powerful as he was when he was a Super Saiyan God. I say this because Goku was experiencing the power for the very first time, and he did not have full mastery over his new power yet.

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After training with Whis, I suspect the Saiyan beyond God version of Goku is superior to even his Super Saiyan God form from Battle of Gods (to a certain extent).

We then find out that the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is basically a Super Saiyan fighting with the power of a Super Saiyan God.

Wait, does that mean Goku could become a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 2 and a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3?

I am not going to go down that rabbit hole because we could be going back and forth about this for an eternity. If Goku could indeed reach those forms then as a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3, his power would be 400 times the power of a Saiyan beyond God!

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Now to get back on track, Saiyan beyond God is superior to Super Saiyan God in the sense that this is a base form Saiyan that has mastered the Super Saiyan God transformation.

What does this mean?

It means that base form Goku and Vegeta can fight with the power of a Super Saiyan God, but the time limit of the godly form is no longer a handicap.

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Again a comparison can be made to Ultimate Gohan vs. Super Saiyan 3. Gohan is allowed to fight with his maximum power without his Ki supply being quickly drained like a Super Saiyan 3.

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is the next stage of a superior Super Saiyan God because it also allows a Saiyan to fight with the power of the Super Saiyan God, but without any sort of time limit handicap.

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I know we have covered a lot of ground so far, but let’s do a quick recap just to be sure we are on the same page.

Saiyan beyond God is the base form of a Saiyan that has now mastered and retained the power of a Super Saiyan God. Any Saiyan that is capable of becoming a Super Saiyan can take their Saiyan beyond God stage to the level of a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

Both of these incarnations of a Saiyan can be considered superior in power to the Super Saiyan God transformation.

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Moving onto GT, although it was never officially stated; Goku in base form is said to be as powerful as he was at the Super Saiyan 3 level in DBZ (specifically in the Buu Saga, not the 10 year gap between the death of Kid Buu and the departure of Goku with Uub).

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This made me cringe as a child when I heard this because I was difficult to believe that Kid Goku (GT) was on par with the Super Saiyan 3 that we had seen fighting with Kid Buu!

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However, most fans associate Goku’s power to Super Saiyan 3 because of his statement to General Rilldo about the Machine Mutant being more powerful than even Majin Buu.

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Goku actually fights on par (and even has the upper hand for a good portion of the fight) with Rilldo, and that is why most fans say he was at the power of a Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku. It is also worth mentioning that this is in reference to Rilldo’s first form, and not his other 2 transformation that make Goku power up to Super Saiyan 1 which makes him 50 times more powerful than before.

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Things can get extremely complicated when thinking about a base form Goku being on par with his Super Saiyan 3 form from DBZ.

Think of it this way:

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Kid Goku (GT) in base form = Super Saiyan 3 Goku from Buu Saga.

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This would mean GT Goku is 400 times the power of base power Goku from the Buu Saga!

What does this mean in terms of the Super Saiyan multipliers when applied to GT Goku?

  • Super Saiyan 1 is 50 times base power
  • Super Saiyan 2 is twice the power of Super Saiyan 1
  • Super Saiyan 3 is four times the power of Super Saiyan 2
  • Super Saiyan 4 is ten times the power of Super Saiyan 3

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Meaning that Super Saiyan 4 Goku in GT is 4,000 times the power of Super Saiyan 3 Goku from the Buu Saga!

Yes, I find this mind blowing as well because it all goes back to what Vegeta from the Team Four Star Abridged series of DBZ said about power levels:

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Alright, at this point the question arises as to which form of Goku would come out on top if Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan met Super Saiyan 4.

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I am willing to bet that in terms of power alone…the winner would be Super Saiyan 4.

Hear me out on this:

We know that Super Saiyan God is more powerful than Super Saiyan 3, but we do not know by how much. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is speculated (and keep in mind that it is not official) to be 50 times the power of a Saiyan beyond God, and this “form” is literally a base form Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God.

Fans speculate Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan to be 50 times the power of a Super Saiyan God.

The reason I feel that Super Saiyan 4 Goku is more powerful is simply because a base form Goku that is equal in power to a Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku is just insane to think about because he gets a 4,000 times power increase at Super Saiyan 4.

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I will say that we do know Saiyan beyond God Goku is more powerful than GT base form Goku.

Why?

It has been said many times that Saiyan beyond Goku is basically Super Saiyan God Goku (just without the drastic change in appearance), and that would mean his power is much higher than Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

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However, if Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is indeed only 50 times the power of Saiyan beyond God (or Super Saiyan God), I feel that it goes without saying that a 50-fold power increase would not be able to matchup to a Super Saiyan 4 GT Goku.

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Super Saiyan GT Goku alone is already 50 times the power of Super Saiyan 3 DBZ Goku, which increases to 100 times as a Super Saiyan 2, and 400 times as a Super Saiyan 3…

I do not think that Super Saiyan God is that much of a power-up when compared to Super Saiyan 3.

If Goku were to fully master his training under Whis in order to become a perfect warrior, he would have an advantage over Super Saiyan 4 Goku.

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Remember that Whis pointed out Goku’s main flaw as being too relaxed in battle, and that leaves him open to attack. This can lead to his defeat by a weaker opponent, and we saw this happen when Sorbet blasted him through the heart with his ring laser!

Can you imagine a Goku that was flawless in combat? True, Super Saiyan 4 is more powerful, but that version of Goku would not have the training of Whis to back him up!

I am keeping “GT Goku” and “Battle of Gods Goku” as separate entities during this fight.

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Some fans are probably reading this and would consider the fight to be over in a matter of seconds! I mean Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku would just need to cut off Super Saiyan 4 Goku’s tail!

Yes, I know that would be a way of ending the fight very quickly. However, who would want to see that as the ending of such an epic battle?

I know that I would not want this battle between Super Saiyans to be over before it begun due to Super Saiyan 4 Goku’s main handicap.

Something else that needs to be taken into consideration is that Super Saiyan 4 and Super Saiyan God/Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan are completely different levels. I mean Super Saiyan 4 seems to fit into the same spectrum as the first 3 Super Saiyan levels.

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However, Super Saiyan God is in a league of its own. It is a being of such divine energy and power that it cannot be sensed by “lesser beings” through the use of a Ki signature. I do not think that this means Super Saiyan God is automatically more powerful than Super Saiyan 4 (because in GT, it is mentioned on more than one occasion by other characters that Goku’s Ki is incredible in the form; meaning “lesser beings” can sense his presence), but it means that it is in a different realm of power.

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Super Saiyan God is a powerful form, but until we are officially given the stats on how much more powerful it is than a Super Saiyan 3; this debate will most likely continue on.

Which form do you think is more powerful?

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

Dragonball Z Theory Warp Kamehameha or Final Flash: Which Move Was More Impressive Against Perfect Cell?

By Jeremy Carden

The trademark attacks of Goku and Vegeta inflicted a lot of damage to the Perfect Android known as Cell.

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Goku used his Warp Kamehameha Wave against him in the Cell Games and Vegeta launched his Final Flash right after Cell reached his Perfect Form.

Though it is has never been determined which attack got the better of Perfect Cell. When you look at both attacks carefully and the situation that the Saiyans were in along with Cell’s reaction to the attack, there is a lot more to it than Cell being blasted and regenerating.

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I know it is clear that the BEST attack against Cell was the Father-Son Kamehameha Wave because that was the attack that ultimately killed him. Keep in mind that both Goku AND Vegeta played a role in Gohan’s attack being successful.

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In both the anime AND manga, Goku was coaching Gohan during the beam struggle.

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Finally, Vegeta steps in with a Ki blast that catches Cell off guard and that leads to his defeat.

Now in terms of Goku and Vegeta’s individual blasts on Cell, there were a lot of key factors that took place as a setup for their attacks.

  1. Perfect Cell was beating them both down!

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After Cell reached his Perfect Form, Super Vegeta (Ascended Super Saiyan) was being outclassed in every single way. This was the reverse of their earlier battle when Vegeta was beating down Semi-Perfect Cell. When it was clear that Vegeta was no match for the android, he powered up his Final Flash.

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During the Cell Games, Full Power Super Saiyan Goku was going blow for blow against Cell. After Cell blew up the tournament ring, it seemed like he was getting the upper hand because there was no longer any boundaries to their match. Goku realized that he had to go for broke and flew up into the air to charge up his Warp Kamehameha Wave.

  1. Goku and Vegeta put most of their Ki into their attacks

Considering that the Saiyans knew releasing their power in small amounts was not going to be enough to defeat Cell, they opted to go for broke by unleashing a huge Ki attack with the intention of finally killing Cell.

How do I know they used most of their Ki in their attacks?

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Vegeta was visibly exhausted after hitting Cell with the Final Flash and Piccolo sensed that the powers of both Cell AND Goku had dropped significantly after the Warp Kamehameha attack; Goku from using a large amount of his Ki for the attack and Cell’s power went down sharply due to the regeneration he needed to do to recover from the attack.

  1. Both moves took awhile to charge but Cell just stood there while the Saiyans powered up their attacks!

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If there is one thing we’ve learned about the Dragon Ball series, it is that if an opponent is powering up; you stand there and do nothing!

  1. Both attacks had enough power to blow up the planet

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Trunks screamed out to his father that his blast was going to blow up the planet if he launched an attack with that much force from that particular position at Cell.

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Piccolo screamed at everyone to get out of the way because Goku was going to use his Kamehameha! Cell noticed that similar to Vegeta, Goku was in a position with an attack so powerful that if he launched it from that angle the entire planet would blow up!

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Kind of like how Vegeta (with only a power level of 18,000) back in the Saiyan Saga would have blown up the earth with his Galick Gun, the powerful Super Saiyans fighting against Cell could have done the same. This shows that it isn’t about how much power you have that matters in a Ki attack in terms of what effect it has on the planet, it depends on where you launch because depending on the position of the user, the move could blow up a planet.

  1. Goku and Vegeta both played on Cell’s pride and ego

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Now here is what I like about Vegeta in this situation; he played himself! What do I mean by that? Remember that Cell has the cells of Vegeta and knew how to play on Vegeta’s ego, pride and thirst for a challenge against powerful foes. That was how he was able to trick Vegeta into letting him obtain his Perfect Form. Now in this situation, Vegeta played on Cell’s ego (the same as his) by telling him that if he really wanted to test out the limits of his new form that he’d take on the Final Flash head-on!

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In Goku’s case, we again come across a reverse situation of something that took place earlier in their battle. When Cell charged up a powerful earth shattering Kamehameha Wave, Goku warned him not to put that much Ki into the attack or it would destroy the planet. He used a large amount of Ki in his attack while Goku watched on in a panicked like state. After launching the blast at Goku, the Saiyan flew up into the air and used Instant Transmission to dodge at the last second which prevented the planet from blowing up!

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Alright, now let’s look at the Warp Kamehameha; Goku used a large amount of Ki in his attack while Cell watched with a panicked look on his face. At first, Cell thought that he had called Goku’s bluff because he knew that based on their earlier shuffle, Goku would not place the safety of the earth in danger just to win the fight. However, this proved to work to Goku’s advantage when he took Cell by surprise!

  1. Both Saiyans caught Cell off-guard and was he nearly killed by their attacks

Since Cell “allowed” Goku and Vegeta to charge up their attacks, this left him wide open to take the full force of their techniques.

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Against the Final Flash, Cell was completely taken by surprise! If Cell had not dodged the blast at the last moment by the skin of his teeth…he would have been destroyed! The attack blasted off a good portion of his upper-torso and it was clear that the rest of his body would have been destroyed if he had not reacted at the last moment.

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It wasn’t until the last moment when the blast was about to hit him that Cell realized that the Final Flash was capable of completely annihilating him!

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When Goku used his Warp Kamehameha, Cell had no time at all to defend himself. The blast took off his full upper torso leaving only his legs remaining! Goku’s Instant Transmission put him in a position where Cell’s guard wasn’t up and he didn’t have time to react like he did against the Final Flash (well at least the split second he had to dodge).

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So, we know that if Cell had moved out of the way at the last second the dodge the Final Flash, he would have been completely destroyed!

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Looking at the Warp Kamehameha, Goku actually “killed” Cell. However, that would only apply to the text in the manga which was altered in the anime. See in the manga, Cell stated that he could regenerate as long as his head remained intact. This is similar to the Namekian regeneration technique that he acquired from Piccolo’s cells.

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In the Buu Saga, Piccolo tells Trunks that he could regenerate as long as his head wasn’s damaged. This was what happened after Trunks breaks Piccolo (when he was a statue after being hit by Dabura’s Stone Spit).

Cell in the anime says that every cell of his body has a life of its own and even if he was blown to pieces, as long as one single cell remained; he could regenerate. So if we  look at the text of the anime only then we can say that technically Goku “killed” Cell because he blew his head completely off!

  1. Cell regenerated shocking both Saiyans!

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Vegeta expressed much joy in the fact that he maimed the “perfect” android that he heard so much about. However, Cell quickly put a stop to the Saiyan’s outburst by regenerating all of the damage he took from the Final Flash. This left Vegeta with a VERY surprised look on his face.

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While the Z-Fighters were celebrating Goku’s apparent victory over Cell (well most of them anyway), Goku did not buy into the fact that he had won. He said that he could still sense a lot of energy within what was left of Cell’s body. Then like something straight out of a nightmare; Cell’s lower-half jumped up and he fully regenerated!

  1. Goku and Vegeta blast Cell with a barrage of Ki blasts

After Cell regenerated, Vegeta was shocked because that was his trump card and it failed! He then powered up and fired a Ki blast that just left a small scratch on Cell’s body.

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Vegeta then fired dozens of Ki blasts but Cell simply walked toward him out of the smoke cloud and punched him right in the face.

Goku and Cell were having a fierce exchange with high speed melee attacks, but after being knocked into a cliff and Cell was about to charge him; Goku hopped out of the rubble for a counterattack!

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He unleashed a fierce barrage of Ki blasts (Continuous Kamehameha) that had Cell stuck in place! The android knew that he was in a tight spot and unleashed his Perfect Barrier technique to save himself.

Later on, he admitted to himself that if he had not put up his barrier when he did…Goku’s attack might have actually killed him!

It is interesting that despite both Super Saiyans releasing most of their Ki in their attacks to kill Cell but failed, they still had enough power to unleash a barrage of powerful energy blasts on the android!

  1. The Saiyans give up or were ultimately defeated

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After a punch to the face, Cell kicked Vegeta right into the air and ended it with an elbow to the back which sent him hurtling into the ground. Super Vegeta was utterly defeated…

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Realizing that his Continuous Kamehameha was no use against the Perfect Barrier, Goku paused while he and Cell took a short breather. A few moments later, Goku declared that he was no match for Cell and forfeited the match.

Now with all of this being said which attack actually got the better of the self acclaimed “Perfect Android?” 

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Both attacks were very impressive and powerful, but neither one got the job done. I’ll give the Saiyans credit because despite using such lethal techniques neither one of them blew up the planet. Trunks pointed out that Vegeta directed the Final Flash into space after it hit Cell to prevent the earth from exploding. Goku used the Instant Transmission to hit Cell in a vulnerable position that would do as little damage to the planet as possible.

It is difficult to say if the Warp Kamehameha would have COMPLETELY destroyed Cell like the Final Flash would have if Cell had stayed in that one spot. You do have to look at the slight differences of the position of the blasts when they made contact with Cell.

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The Final Flash would have hit Cell’s entire body, but Goku was in a position where the Warp Kamehameha could only hit his upper torso. Based on the amount of Ki Goku put into the attack, I’d say that if he had fired his technique from the sky like Vegeta did on Cell it would have destroyed him (and the planet unless he aimed it to fly into space like Vegeta did with his move after it hit Cell).

After going over all of the bits and pieces of information, I’m going to say that the Warp Kamehameha did Cell the most harm. Don’t get me wrong, the only reason these attacks did not kill Cell was because he moved at the last moment against the Final Flash and it was the change in translation of the original dialogue that prevent Goku from killing Cell.

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Looking aside from those small details, the Warp Kamehameha clearly did the most damage to Cell. I’m not just saying that because it blew up more of his body than the Final Flash, but it has to do with the aftermath of the attacks. After Cell regenerated from his damage, he took out Vegeta with ease and then got into battle with Ultra Trunks.

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When he regenerated from Goku’s attack, it was clear that his power level had decreased dramatically just like Goku’s because he had to exert a lot of energy to regenerate. He had to eat a Senzu Bean before engaging in battle with Gohan. That just shows how much of an effect Goku’s attack had on him.

Now that I have given you my reasoning behind why the Warp Kamehameha was the better move, feel free to express which attack you felt was more effective on Cell and why.

In case you need to see the scenes from the DBZ series when Goku and Vegeta use these moves against Cell then here they are!

Goku’s Warp Kamehameha

Vegeta’s Final Flash

Both are indeed highlights from the Cell Arc but only one can be named the best attack on the Android!

 

Dragon Ball Z: How Did Cooler Survive Being Blasted Into the Sun?

By Jeremy Carden

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First off, let me just say that Cooler is one of my favorite movie villains in the Dragon Ball franchise.

He is indeed much “cooler” than his younger brother Frieza (yeah I know I couldn’t help but let a cooler-pun slip out of my mouth)!

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I mean Frieza demonstrated the awesome transformations that the Frost Demon race was capable of performing to bottle up their power.

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However, his older brother took it a step further by giving us one of the coolest (see I did it again!) transformations with his 5th form!

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When Mecha Frieza returned to earth to exact his revenge on Goku, he came back looking like he was given a patch up job with some spare refrigerator parts found in a scrap yard…

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Meta-Cooler appears on New Namek with a much more impressive new robotic body than Frieza.

Since it has been established that Cooler is “cooler” than Frieza, there is still one question that is left unanswered; How in the world did he survive being blasted into the sun?

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At the end of Cooler’s Revenge, Goku launched a Super Kamehameha Wave that pushed Cooler’s Supernova back at the powerful tyrant. Cooler was left clinging on to the attack as Goku’s energy wave pushed him into the sun.

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I’ve always questioned why Cooler didn’t just “jump off” the energy attacks in time to avoid being burned to a crisp. The distance from the earth to the sun is 92,960,000 miles and it seemed like Goku’s Super Kamehameha attack was moving extremely fast if it had enough power to be shot from earth to the sun in what seemed to be seconds!

Cooler was in a difficult situation as he was being pushed back by his own Supernova and Goku’s attack. Though I don’t see how he couldn’t somehow manage to escape.

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Looking back at when Goku fired a Super Kamehameha blast at 100% Frieza on Namek, the one moment Frieza had over his brother was when he escaped the Super Saiyan’s trademark attack.

Despite Goku having the power advantage, Frieza was able to get out of the beam collision and knock the Saiyan into the molten lava of Namek!

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When he finally hits the sun, Cooler is reverted back to his “base” form which is actually his 4th form if you want to compare him to Frieza. Remembering that he did this to himself by not killing Goku as a baby when he had the chance, the Supernova exploded and a bright flash came from the sun before it went back to normal.

Despite being cool, Cooler was no match for the heat of the sun!

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Then we get to the next movie The Return of Cooler where the tyrant is now in a new body and is far more powerful than he was before! In the first movie, his 4th form was being dominated by Goku in base form!

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In his final form, Cooler was dominated by Super Saiyan Goku. As Meta-Cooler, he is capable of taking down 2 Super Saiyans and Piccolo (after fusing with Kami) with no problem at all.

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Toward the end of the film, he finally explains how he became a part of the Big Gete Star. Now from my perspective, I can understand how that one computer chip somehow became active and began absorbing components from around it that was floating around in space. So from that one computer chip, the entire massive structure which is known as the Big Gete Star came to be.

Based on the way Cooler explained the story, some parts of his body (including his brain) was floating around in space and was also absorbed into the components of the Big Gete Star and from there his consciousness took over this giant planet eater. In a way, it seems that Meta-Cooler is like Brainiac from the Superman series who travels around space “collecting” planets.

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For Brainiac it was scanning planets for information before destroying them. In the case of the “Big Gete Cooler Star” it was about using the power of a planet’s core to fuel the entire machine.

Which is kind of ironic considering that before his resurrection as Meta-Cooler, he was in the Planet Trade Organization with his father and Frieza “collecting” planets (along with destroying them on occasion).

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Now when I really think about it, there are two ways that Cooler could have survived being sent to the surface of the sun with the end result being his remains floating around in space before being absorbed into the Big Gete Star.

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  1. When the Supernova attack finally exploded, Cooler was caught in the blast because he was literally being pressed up against the sun with his Supernova right on top of him. The shock wave of the blast could have sent his remains into the vacuum of space where he was just floating around.
  2. Cooler used Instant Transmission at the last second to escape the explosion of his Supernova on the sun to salvage what was left of his existence (and body) into the vacuum of space.

#2 might sound a bit far-fetched but hear me out because there are possible clues to this in Cooler’s Revenge AND The Return of Cooler.

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After Goku uses Instant Transmission to escape Cooler’s Supernova, the Saiyan boasts about his new technique.

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Cooler remarks that it is one of his favorite techniques as well and he uses is to land a powerful punch to the Saiyan’s jaw.

The big question is; when and how did Cooler learn how to use Instant Transmission?

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Now as far as we know from the anime and manga, the natives of the Planet Yardart are the ones who came up with the technique.

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Yardrart is the planet where the Ginyu Force was originally on route to before Frieza called them to Namek. Goku said that when he jumped into one of the ships belonging to the force, he started up the engines and flew off! The ship randomly flew into space and Goku barely escape the destruction of Namek. It seems that since he did not have time to plot a course (or if he even knew how to set the ship to a certain destination), the ship sent Goku to the most recent coordinates in its database.

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Could Cooler have attacked, taken over or destroyed Planet Yardrat himself and learned the technique?

It could be that after becoming one with the Big Gete Star, Cooler attacked the planet and absorbed the information from one of the natives.

Looking at Cooler’s Revenge, it is also quite possible that Cooler was able to use the technique prior to becoming Meta-Cooler.

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As far as I can tell, no one in the Frost Demon Clan is able to sense Ki signatures. This was made clear when Goku was fighting Frieza.

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While Future Trunks was transforming into a Super Saiyan, if King Cold COULD sense power levels then he would have been able to detect that Trunks was more powerful than his son and even himself (while in that form).

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Think back to Cooler’s Revenge, when his Armored Squadron was attacking Goku: Cooler appeared out of nowhere.

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After Goku and Gohan fell over the waterfall and into the river, Cooler’s men blasted the forest into a wasteland. Then what happened? Cooler appeared out of nowhere.

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Piccolo killed two of the squadron members and was about to do the same to Salza before he was blasted through the chest with a Death Beam. Where did the attack come from? Cooler because he appeared out of nowhere!

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Finally after Goku ate a Senzu Bean and emerged from the cave he was hiding in, he is taunted from the sky by a murderous tyrant holding a badly injured Piccolo. Who was it? COOLER AND HE APPEARED OUT OF NOWHERE!!

Another thing to remember is that Cooler was never seen where a Scouter unlike his men. This could mean that he either has no interest in wearing one or he can simply sense power levels.

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How could he appear out of nowhere at random multiple times during the movie when his men were doing battle against the Z-Fighters?

Again, it could mean that he could sense Ki because he literally came out of nowhere exactly where the battles were occurring. Now it could have just been because he is very fast and that could explain how he was able to get to all of those places at just the right time or it could have been because of Instant Transmission!

It stands to reason that Cooler did know Instant Transmission in his first movie, but the writers simply decided to omit his use of it in favor of him saving for his battle with Goku on New Namek.

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Keep in mind that in the first movie, it does not seem like Cooler needed to use it against Goku. He was mopping the floor with him and it was clear that Cooler was much faster than Goku after transforming. It wasn’t until Goku went Super Saiyan did Cooler get a beating. The only time Cooler would have needed to use the technique was when he was being blasted into the sun!

If you ask me the only real question is when and how he picked up the move. Considering that he goes around taking over and destroying planets, Cooler could have come across it at some point and learned it from a Yardart native on the actual Planet Yardrat or one of them on another planet.

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Frieza wanted to take over the Planet Kanassa in the Bardock special because it was rumored to have some sort of psychic powers like being able to read minds. The same could be said about the abilities of the people of Yardart being rumored about around the galaxy and Cooler wanted to learn such a technique that allowed him to travel to one place to another in an instant.

Now regardless as to whether or not it was Instant Transmission or being simply blown away from the sun by the shock wave of the explosion, Cooler’s remains were sent into space before being absorbed into the Big Gete Star.

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It is very similar to how Frieza’s remains were floating in space after being cut in half by his own energy disk, getting hit by Goku’s Angry Kamehameha Wave and being caught in the explosion of Namek! Considering he was able to survive all that says a lot about the incredible endurance and biology of Frieza’s family. Especially when it comes to them being able to survive not only in space but after serious injury that would kill any other normal beings.

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Frieza was eventually found by his father and repaired to be more powerful than ever.

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Cooler’s remains were picked up by the Big Gete Star and he was reborn to more powerful than ever. He even created a new metal body for himself along with having the Cyclopian Guards acting as a first line of offense when taking over a planet.

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Another thing to think about is the possibility of a portion of Cooler’s head being the only thing that was left of Cooler’s body that was not completely destroyed in the sun. Just check out this giant form of the core of the Big Gete Star that contains what was left of the organic Cooler. the only part that does not look robotic is one side of his head and face which is a much different color (purple and red) than the wiring and metal of his body.

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Now compare it to Frieza’s head where you can see his organic form having half of his head blasted off as you can see above.

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As Mecha Frieza, that part of his head was mechanically repaired which resembles the Core-Cooler from the Big Gete Star.

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In the Team Four Star Abridged version of The Return of Cooler, they poked fun at the fact that Cooler’s remains were floating around space and came in contact with the Big Gete Star (or at least the computer chip that started it all). As humorous as this scene was, it is probably accurate in the fact that only a portion of Cooler’s head and brain remained after he was burned up in the sun. It seems that unlike his brother who had nearly the complete portion of his upper torso intact (aside from half of his head and one of his arms), Cooler only had part of his head floating around in space.

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Another thing that fans wonder about is why Cooler did not go into his final form as Meta-Cooler. I really wish we could have seen that because it would have been epic! Since his body duplicates get repaired thanks to the Big Gete Star whenever they are damaged and improve after each injury Cooler did not have a need to transform. Not to mention Cooler was in 4th form (or what was left of his body) when absorbed into the Big Gete Star and not his 5th form.

With all of that being said, how do you think Cooler survived being blasted into the sun?

Dragonball Z: One of the Worst Yamcha Memes

by Jeremy Carden

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I know there are a lot of Yamcha memes circulating on the Internet, but this one has got to be one of the worst out there. Most of the memes make fun of the human Z-Fighter, but this one…

This particular meme is a boastful meme of how Yamcha is better than Goku or Vegeta when placed in certain circumstances. There are a total of 6 different responses to everyone’s negative opinions about  Yamcha. I’ll list them out below and describe why I feel they are ridiculous.

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#1 It took me one death to realize being cocky or underestimating your enemy is a weakness where it took Vegeta to see Super Saiyan 3 Goku in action to understand this

Vegeta’s trademark isn’t just the Galick Gun or the Final Flash it is his EGO and PRIDE! Maybe if Yamcha had more of that Bulma would not have left him for Vegeta! That passion to be the best was what made Vegeta train to be the #1 in the universe. Yamcha on the other hand just lounged around Capsule Corp. and did well…nothing. Vegeta died TWICE and still fought on to be the best even if he was blinded by pride.

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I’d say that Vegeta had far more growth by the end of the series when compared to Yamcha despite meeting Goku way back in Dragonball! Seeing Goku at his best fighting the pink menace (after getting beaten by Kid Buu himself), Vegeta understood who Goku was not as a Saiyan warrior but as a PERSON! I think while fused with Goku as Vegito, Vegeta was able to see Goku for who he truly was.

Yamcha on the other hand did see the importance of not underestimating his opponents early on in DBZ. However, he became more of a coward on the battlefield than a warrior. That alone is why this statement just makes him love very bad…

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#2 I made it to King Kai’s house a lot faster then Goku and don’t use “Goku falling off of Snake Way as an excuse

Here is one that annoys me: Tien, Yamcha, Piccolo and Chiaotzu making it down Snake Way faster than Goku (even minus Princess Snake and falling off into Hell detours). The comparison isn’t fair at all!

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Goku’s base power was only 416 (without weights) and let’s just say that after death it was the same (unless you count a Zenkai for him keeping his body after dying but in this case let’s not) and if you count him eating that fruit from Yemma’s tree doubling his strength we could say it was 832 and now compare that to the Z-Fighters after training to prepare for the Saiyan arrival:

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These are from the Daizenshuu 7;

Tien-1,830

Piccolo-3,500

Yamcha-1,480

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With all of that taken into consideration then it is understandable why these 4 would get down Snake Way faster!

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#3 I defeated Recoome, but Vegeta did not

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Defeating Recoome was FILLER. Secondly, AGAIN Yamcha’s power level would understandably be higher than the fighter he is comparing himself too. Vegeta was a little over 30,000 while Yamcha had been on King Kai’s planet training for months. So it’s easy to see why his power would increase enough to beat a Ginyu Force member. But again this was FILLER! Again, Yamcha tries to outshine Vegeta only to give himself even more grief by fans!

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#4 I was the first and only human to try out the gravity machine one time but at least I was strong enough to move and shutdown the machine in 300x gravity where Goku struggled training under 100x gravity

The 300x gravity remark was good until he AGAIN compared himself to someone who had a lower power than he had at the time. Goku had just recovered from the battle with Vegeta thanks to a Senzu Bean and of course probably received a Zenkai. But since he was healing nicely in the hospital the Senzu Bean repaired his bones rather than his health since he was in good shape in the hospital (health wise I mean).

If you ask me I’d say his power was around 9,000 or 10,000 (like his father Bardock was before he died) considering he was “over 8000” by Vegeta’s Scouter and was literally near death after Vegeta left, he was in bed for a couple of months before he could even get a Senzu Bean so it makes sense that his power would increase after eating it. He even states that he feels himself getting weaker for not training for so long just lying in bed (similar to the heart virus in the Android Saga lying him out for about 10 days). Not to mention his base power on Namek was 90,000. I’d like to think that training under x100 gravity increased his base power by 10 because it makes it easier to calculate.

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Now there is one important factor to take into consideration: Goku was weak before he trained in 100x gravity, but Yamcha was at full health!

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Goku was training at 50x gravity doing sit-ups while hanging from the ceiling! He was nearing 10,000 when his spaceship hit a magnetic storm fluctuating the gravity from 0 to 100x rapidly not allowing him to get used to the random changes. He was exhausted when the machine hit 100x gravity so it makes sense that he could barely move!

Yamcha wasn’t tired at all when he went into the machine and cranked it up to 300x gravity!

While Yamcha was well over 10,000 in the Trunks Saga. After training on King Kai’s for a long period of time, I think it equaled around a year or a little over that. His power was probably just scrapping the 100,000 range. He was lucky to get out of the Gravity Room alive.

Not to mention that even though Goku got smacked around by 100x gravity, instead of working his way up from 50x to 100x gravity by going up 10x each time until he got to 100x, after nearly being killed Goku was inspired to master 100x gravity right away! Yamcha did not do this, he opted to go on a training mission instead of sticking around Capsule Corp. for effective training!

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#5 After Cell’s defeat, my training went unknown cause I like being a mystery fighter

After Cell was killed by Gohan and we move on 7 years later,  he told everyone that he quit fighting so that was pretty much all we got on the subject. What’s so mysterious about it? I don’t think he quit as soon as Cell was defeated he might have trained a couple of years and just quit all of a sudden, but that’s just me trying to get him SOME credit. It doesn’t really matter if you are a mysterious fighter if all you do is run from fights.

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#6 I defeated Olibu with ease but Goku and Pikkon did not

Olibu…again FILLER not to mention Goku didn’t fight Olibu (unless you count the video game Buu’s Fury, but then again that’s a video game not the anime). Pikkon was wearing his weighted clothes not to mention he didn’t use Thunder Flash or any energy attack for that matter. That shows right there he was holding back A LOT of power. To me it was more of a test because Olibu had a reputation around Grand Kai’s planet like Pikkon. Both were known for their strength and Pikkon was most likely testing the warrior’s power. It was clearly a hand to hand combat match, but of course it was more epic than the one we see from Yamcha fighting these two dead warriors.

Overall, this is probably one of the memes on the Internet that makes Yamcha look worse than he has even looked before.

What do you think?

Dragonball Z Best of the Earthlings: Tien vs. Krillin

By Jeremy Carden

The purpose of this blog is to hopefully settle a long standing debate to decide who the most powerful earthling in the series is.

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And I can tell you right now that it is not Mr. Satan!

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And it isn’t Uub either! True before fusing with Mr. Buu in GT to become Majuub, Uub was 100% human but the fact that he was the resurrected form of Kid Buu kind of leads to an unfair advantage.

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In any case, the two humans or should I say super humans up for the #1 spot are Tien and Krillin.

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Based on interviews by Akira Toriyama, it is said that Krillin IS the strongest earthling meaning that he is superior to Tien.

However, I have room for doubt mainly due to what I’ve seen in the series. I’ve read the manga once so I can’t really use a lot of information from it. Most of my reasoning will come from the anime which I’m sure most of you are familiar with.

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First I’d like to clear the air of something a lot of people throw in Tien’s direction; Tien isn’t 100% human because he is said to be the descendant of the Three-Eyed Clan. Well it is mentioned in the Daizenshuu books, some online biographies of the character and other sources. The only time I remember seeing anything about him being “related” to aliens through having a bloodline involving the Three-Eyed Clan was in a video strategy guide book that I read a long time ago.

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Even so I doubt that it has anything to do with making Tien a full on alien or even partly one. I mean from what I could gather from a lot of reliable sources was that Tien actually gained his third eye through intense meditation. Similar to Piccolo we see Tien power up through mental preparation and spiritual enlightenment. So, if Tien IS a descendant from the Three-Eyed Clan that could potentially mean that the only way he could have gotten his third eye was through that meditation and not from birth. I know we see him with that extra eye as a kid training with Tao but maybe he started meditation at an early age?

Honestly, I don’t know who cares anyway?

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Tien has an extra eye but Krillin doesn’t have a nose! So that’s that and I feel that even if Tien is a descendant of that clan it doesn’t really make him any less human than Krillin and puts him in fare running for this comparison.

For this I’ll be breaking it down into 6 categories:

  1. Training
  2. Battles
  3. Bravery
  4. Techniques
  5. Power Levels
  6. Who would win?

Category #1: Training

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Krillin began his training as a member of the Orin Temple where he was bullied by the stronger and much taller students before he became fed up with their bulling. He then ventured off to find the legendary Master Roshi and from there trained with his rival turned lifelong friend Goku for their first World Martial Arts tournament.

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Thanks to their strict training schedule, he was able to raise his abilities from “normal human standards” to superhuman due to surpassing the normal limitations of human strength. He proved to be a strong contender in the World Tournament until he met his match in his master disguised participant: Jackie Chun.

From there until the beginning of the next tournament, he went back to Roshi’s island to once again continue his training for the next tournament alongside Yamcha. His power did increase but not as much as Goku’s thanks to his power going up through battling the likes of the Red Ribbon Army, training with Korin and his 3 years of traveling on foot around the world.

After being wished back with the Dragonballs, Krillin went to train with Korin before the 23rd World Tournament and that raised his power quite a bit. He was even shown to now be able to fly and use powerful Ki attacks.

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During the 5 year gap between DB and DBZ it appears that Krillin was living at Kame House and he might have done a bit of training while he was there. It was shown that his power level was 206 when compared to Roshi’s 139 possibly proving that he had finally surpassed his master. I know his number is higher than Roshi’s but remember Master Roshi could still bulk up to his “MAX POWER” form for battle increasing his strength.

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Until the Saiyans arrived, Krillin trained at Kami’s Lookout for an intense training session increasing his power to over 1,000.

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After the battle with the Saiyans, he went to Namek with Gohan and did some mind training to help hone their skills before touching down on the planet.

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Although he did not do any real training on Namek he did get a power boost from Guru that released his unlocked potential. I’ll get more into that when I get to the Power Level section of this blog.

He was dead for the remainder of the saga after Frieza blew him up and was wished back with the Namek’s Dragonballs on Earth later on.

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Despite the Garlic Jr. Saga being filler, we don’t see him training just hanging with his then girlfriend Marron and fighting Garlic’s men.

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Before Mecha Frieza returned, Roshi comments that ever since he broke up with Marron he has been training at a serious level that he hadn’t done before.

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After Trunks departs leaving them with the message of the Android threat on the horizon, Krillin AGAIN goes to Roshi for training.

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He does do some sparring with Yamcha to prep for the Cell Games but that only goes as well as could be expected…

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7 years after the threat of Cell, it is learned that Krillin had given up fighting to become a family man with his wife 18, daughter Marron and he lives at Kame House: my guess is that Roshi only agreed to it since 18 would be living with him.

It was mentioned that he grew his hair out since as a fighter dedicated to training a bald head was a symbol of that or something.

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The only time(s) we see him training is before the World Tournament with 18 in order to win prize money to leave Roshi’s house.

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Later on he and Yamcha are seen training on Grand Kai’s Planet showing the two to actually be more or less even with each other despite BOTH saying that they had given up fighting after the death of Cell.

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He is older in the later years of Z and practically an old man in GT so that pretty much covers ALL of the training that he endured as a Z-Fighter.

Now let’s move on to Tien:

Like Krillin, Tien began his training at a young age but instead of simply training to be a martial artist…Tien was trained to be an assassin!

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Training with Mercenary Tao and Master Shen, he learned how to be a cunning, deceptive, powerful and dangerous warrior.

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He knew about pressure points and how to cripple/immobilize his opponents which proved to be quite effective when we saw him fight in the World Tournament against Yamcha, Jackie Chun and Goku.

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After changing his ways, his training shifted from martial arts to the Evil Containment Wave in order to end the threat of King Piccolo after Roshi had died in his failed attempt. In only a matter of days, Tien had mastered the technique but was saved by Goku’s intervention that killed Drum and Piccolo.

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Later on, he went to Korin’s Temple for some training with the feline master for the next tournament with the desire to defeat Goku (who at the time was training with Kami).

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During the 5 year gap between DB and DBZ, he was off training around the globe with his companion Chiaotzu.

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He then ventures to the Lookout to train for nearly a year for the Saiyan threat raising his power over 1,000 like the rest of the Z-Fighters.

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After dying, he goes to King Kai’s Planet and that proved to raise his power level a considerable amount. He went from being beaten around by Nappa to being able to EASILY defeat Burter and Jeice at the same time!

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He remained there longer than Yamcha before being wished back with the Dragonballs so it can be assumed that he raised his power level a good deal before finally being wished back.

Moving forward 1 ½ years later before Goku returned after the battle on Namek, he is shown to again be traveling for some intense training.

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After Trunks leaves, he decided to train like never before in order to be prepared for the Android threat.

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He was actually going to take a trip into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber before the Cell Games but after Goku (as a Full Power Super Saiyan) admitted to being no match for Cell, Tien decided to step down since despite a power increase for training in the chamber for a year, he figured that it would not be enough to even hold a candle against Cell.

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Finally, after Cell’s defeat he says that the others would probably never see him again as he would isolate himself from humanity to train. His last appearance in battle was to save Dende from Buutenks’ attack before being knocked out later on with a kick from his lower half cut off by Goku.

It can be assumed that despite not being seen at the final tournament, Tien was still in training around the Earth.

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We even see him meditating under a waterfall at the end of GT where he spots Goku riding off with Shernon into the sky.

Winner: Tien

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Alright I have to give this round to Tien because the man NEVER stops training in order to improve his skills. This was clear after learning about Goku training with Kami and I believe it was Yamcha or Krillin who mentioned that if he is training with Kami not only was he the best in the world due to him stopping King Piccolo but now training with the Guardian of the Earth means that the gap between their powers would never be closed. This lead to Tien saying that no matter what he was going to train even harder in order to beat Goku in the next tournament and that kind of never say die attitude was what helped him get even stronger.

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Then hearing that Goku had defeated Frieza as a Super Saiyan making him the best in the universe, he even thinks to himself that he’d like to fight him just to see how he would measure up in the universal ranking! Talk about a real contender!

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Krillin is strong but his “breaks” in training really hurt more than helped increase his skills not to mention he was walking in the shadow of Roshi much longer than he should have. Instead of training under him for so long he should have been like Goku or Tien by travelling the world for training rather than just doing the same thing over and over simply shooting Kamehameha Waves at the ocean.

Even after learning about the Android threat he decided to train with Roshi which made little to no sense at all to me…

So that is why I feel that Tien wins this round!

Category #2: Battles

Throughout the series, both fighters had numerous amounts of battles and most of which were with characters more powerful than themselves.

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If I had to pick from the DB days Krillin’s best battle, I’d have to say it was his fight with Piccolo Jr. Even though he lost that match, his skill was enough to surprise even Piccolo! He learned how to fly, manipulate Ki to distract Piccolo for a punch to the face and even stood up after being hit extremely hard into the ring.

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Tien’s was most likely his fight with Goku both times in the tournament and even though Goku won the fight physically, Tien won the fight by technicality. In their rematch, Goku was superior but Tien had some new tricks like the Multi-Form that even caught Goku off guard a few times. Not to mention he put up a good fight against Piccolo’s minion Drum but had to be saved by Goku.

In DBZ, these 2 didn’t really fight in a major battle until the Saiyans arrived.

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Of course we all know that Tien’s main “fight” was against Semi-Perfect Cell holding him off with the Neo-Tri Beam! That had to be a powerful attack to keep an opponent who was stronger than Android 16, Kamiccolo and Android 17 in check.

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Krillin’s only “real fight” in my book was against Frieza but even then it wasn’t a fight but more of stalling and staying alive while Dende healed Gohan.

However, Krillin did fight ALL of Cell’s forms!

  • He and Future Trunks destroyed the Baby Cell in Gero’s lab
  • He fought Imperfect Cell to protect a girl and her brother
  • He attacked Semi-Perfect Cell in an attempt to stop him from absorbing #18
  • He attacked Perfect Cell in a rage after Cell absorbed her
  • He ALMOST attacked Buff Cell after he spit up 18 but Piccolo held him back
  • Finally he and the other Z-Fighters attacked Super Perfect Cell during his beam struggle with Gohan

True some of those “fights” were filler but still worthy of note.

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Overall, Krillin didn’t have a lot of wins in DBZ but he knew how to escape fighters like Frieza, Cell and Dodoria with crafty moves like the Solar Flare up his belt; which he totally stole from Tien….

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I know movies are not canon but if I were to pick out at least one that was worthy of note it would be Tien vs. Future Trunks in Bojack Unbound.

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Krillin was freaking out about his battle with Piccolo especially in terms of being killed with the Special Beam Cannon. So in a comical fight that was so ridiculous that even Piccolo forfeited, Krillin won…

Tien on the other hand faced his opponent like a champ and asked Trunks to not hold back and their fight was a couple of minutes long but one of the best parts of the movie in my opinion.

He was pretty much holding his own against Trunks who had trained twice in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber!

If you ask me I think that Tien was holding his own and actually winning the fight due to being the more experienced fighter even landing a blow to Trunks’ face!

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However, he turned Super Saiyan…

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But still Tien did not back down!

Gohan is fighting?!

Gohan is fighting?!

Yamcha gave up the will to fight after learning Gohan and the others entered the tournament

Gohan, Trunks and Piccolo are fighting? This is a load of bull...

Gohan, Trunks and Piccolo are fighting? This is a load of bull…

Krillin was freaked that Super Saiyans were in the tournament

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But Tien stood his ground!

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Even though he lost he fought to the end!

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But looking at the main series…I suppose that since Krillin actually battled Frieza (since Tien was dead), pretty much all of Cell’s variations along with Super and Kid Buu I’m gonna have to give this round to Krillin

Winner; Krillin

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Tien’s battles were more impressive in my book BUT Krillin faced down a lot more opponents. Heck remember that he ALMOST killed Frieza with his trademark attack and that was certainly worthy of merit!

                                                  Category #3: Bravery

This round is a bit more difficult because despite Tien and Krillin being highly outclassed by the Saiyans and other alien races they still train and fight even in battles that they know they cannot win.

Krillin basically has a reputation of being a coward and for good reason. I could be here for a week going down a list of all of the time Krillin either ran from a fight, complained about being so weak that he had no chance of winning or how he would die without having a girlfriend.

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In terms of bravery, I feel that Tien is no doubt the braver warrior. Whether it comes from him being trained as an assassin from childhood basically wiping out fear from his mental dictionary or what he was certainly a warrior not afraid to take on tougher opponents because it would make him stronger.

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Krillin did show some spine during the fight with Nappa and Vegeta especially after Yamcha died and he took out 3 Saibamen with one shot. Then he protected Gohan a couple of times as well in order to save him from the Saiyan’s wrath.

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The highlight of his bravery came in the Buu Saga when he opted to stall Super Buu as long as he could for the others to escape into the Lookout to hide. In his mind he mentioned how not even Gohan, Goku or Vegeta could stop this beast so he had no chance but decided to give his life for this friends and family.

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Looking back at the Cell Saga, he was brave taking on Cell multiple times but let’s face it most of those bouts were out of his “love” for 18 or a pretty girl (remember that time he faced Imperfect Cell to help that girl and her brother escape).

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I think that we can all agree that Tien’s finest moment was when he used his Neo Tri-Beam to stall Semi-Perfect Cell from absorbing 18 and becoming perfect.

The guy was putting his life at risk to stop the Android threat and succeeded for the time being until Vegeta AND Krillin’s selfish desires allowed Cell to reach his perfect form.

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After some debate, Krillin did jump in to fight Kid Buu proving that he was at least braver than Yamcha!

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Krillin does jump in to help his friends but only after a lot of stalling and going over his options. He was quick to criticize Piccolo for jumping in to help Gohan in his beam struggle with Cell only for Tien to cut him off saying that he KNEW he didn’t have a chance but did so anyway because sitting on the sidelines wasn’t worth it unless he fought until the very end.

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This inspired Tien to be the FIRST to power up before flying off the help. Not counting Vegeta, Krillin was the LAST to fly off to help meaning that even Yamcha grew a backbone before Krillin!

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Going back to his decision not to train in the Time Chamber, before getting to the battlegrounds of the Cell Games, Tien and Yamcha said that they’d go to watch but not participate due to the power of Cell being far too great. So he respectfully bowed out…

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But overall, Tien has been facing down giants for quite some time even before Z with opponents like King Piccolo. Krillin is brave especially for his size but overall I’ve got to give this point to Tien because he never backs down.

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Not to mention in Battle of Gods, Krillin ran away when Bills attacks but Tien jumped in!

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And even though he was easily tossed aside when his fist was caught but chopsticks he still attempted to fight which was more than Krillin attempted to do!

Winner: Tien

Category #4: Techniques

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To keep things simple I’ll just be using the techniques that these 2 have become popular for like Krillin’s Kamehameha or Destructo Disk along with Tien’s Tri-Beam and Multi-Form.

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I’ll say that in terms of Ki manipulation, the winner would be Krillin because the guy can come up with some techniques that will help him contend with even the most powerful beings in the universe. If not for Vegeta’s intervention, Nappa would have been killed with the Destructo Disk.

He ALMOST killed Frieza in his 2nd form with his Chain-variation of the move that cut off his tail.

Of course being a student of Roshi, he was able to use the Kamehameha and even proved to manipulate it against Garlic Jr. to catch his opponent off guard.

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Ki attacks aside, I’d have to say that martial arts master goes to Tien because he never stopped training in order to improve his skills making him a VERY skilled combatant.

Not to mention that many of the crafty moves Krillin uses to hold his own against powerful opponents came from Tien like the Multi-Form and Solar Flare.

Also remember the Tien is able to counter the Kamehameha Wave

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He even shocked Jackie Chun using the wave during their match at the World Tournament because he deflected Yamcha’s in round 1 and somehow mimicked it with ease

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His multi-arm ability might prove to be a challenge for Krillin also in terms of close combat

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I mean I think that his power level is higher than Krillin’s so if both of them split into 3 or 4 bodies then I think that Tien would still be more powerful than Krillin’s duplicates.

Tien would have the upper hand but I wouldn’t be surprised if Krillin came up with an off the wall tactic to get back into the game.

Also remember that their techniques don’t mean that their power levels are off the charts but are specifically designed to do damage to their opponents.

Like Krillin vs. 2nd Form Frieza, his power level was over 1 million while Krillin’s wasn’t even 100,000 but the Disk is specifically an attack that cuts through nearly everything and it cut Kid Buu in half!

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However, it just bounced off of Perfect Cell’s neck…

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Tien’s Neo-Tri Beam is a barrage of powerful blasts that push back the opponent. Semi-Perfect Cell could only be bested by an Ascended Super Saiyan. That doesn’t mean Tien’s power level was as high as say Super Vegeta’s but it just means that the technique was designed for that purpose to impact the opponent with a continuous stream of Ki blasts.

Winner; Tien

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Hear me out on this one! Although Tien’s Tri-Beam was enough to hold Cell at bay it is a move that is deadly to his opponent but potentially deadlier to Tien being that his own life force is used up for the move depending on how much he uses it.

Krillin’s signature move isn’t the best move in terms of accuracy especially if his opponent is fast. While the Destructo Disk is deadly, if it misses the opponent then what’s the use?

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The reason I give this point to Tien is because Krillin uses most of Tien’s attacks so that pretty much explains it.

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In Bojack Unbound, Tien use what looked to be a Destructo Disk but it didn’t cut Trunks but exploded on contact (remember it was a tournament so killing was not allowed, so Tien might have used a variation of the technique). But I’d say that Krillin used more of Tien’s moves than Tien did for Krillin’s moves.

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It makes sense because the two trained together at Korin’s then on the Lookout so learning each other’s moves was probably a common practice.

Winner; Tien

Category #5: Power Levels

Now we all know that after the Frieza Saga, power levels were no longer recorded so I’ll have to be making assumptions in most of my numbers.

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Looking at V-Jump and the Daizenshuu the highest power levels listed for Krillin and Tien are as follows;

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Tien was 1,830 while fighting one of the Saibamen and that is pretty much his only listing…

Krillin was over 10,000 while fighting Guldo and officially listed as 13,000 after receiving the “Unlocked Potential” technique by Guru.

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And for some strange reason, V-Jump listed Krillin at 75,000 during the fight with Frieza!

I don’t know how that could be…

First off we know that Saiyans get a Zenkai not Earthlings so when Goku healed him with a Senzu Bean after he arrived on Namek we can assume that Krillin’s power level did not jump from barely over 13,000 to over 70,000.

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I think the best piece of evidence of that theory is because when he and Gohan fought Ginyu inside Goku’s body (who had a power level of 23,000 and falling), Gohan and Krillin working together eventually managed to beat him down until Ginyu started realizing how to use Goku’s body beating Krillin, Gohan and Goku inside Ginyu’s body.

If I were to make an educated guess, after being healed by Dende after nearly dying by being impaled by Frieza’s horns that probably didn’t just heal Krillin but increased his power as well.

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However, the theory to counter that is when Goku sensed Krillin’s Ki again before he was able to leave the healing capsule to save Gohan. He said that Krillin had returned but he didn’t say that his Ki had increased but more like something along the lines of “Krillin’s back!” or something like that.

Though while fighting Frieza in his first form, Vegeta mentioned that his power, Gohan’s AND Krillin’s was increasing with every attack making special note of Gohan having more power than he even realized. So I don’t know how much that means to Krillin’s actually power level increasing…

In any case, we know that Krillin trained for 3 years for the Android threat but stopped training after Cell was destroyed (the same as Yamcha).

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Now in terms of Tien’s power level I’d say he was at least around 80,000 or so at the time of the Ginyu Force’s arrival on King Kai’s Planet. I know it was filler but still the two he fought (Jeice and Burter) were at least at a power level of 40,000+ not to mention he used the Multi-Form to split into 2 and was still making sport of the two.

He was also on the planet longer than Yamcha opting to remain dead until the Namek Dragonballs could be used 130 days later meaning he got more training.

Not to mention the 1 ½ before Goku’s return then another 3 years of training before the Androids arrived POSSIBLY but his power above 500,000.

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Of course his power was again boosted after another 7 years of training between Cell and Buu.

I honestly, don’t think that Krillin OR Yamcha ever reached a power level that measured over 1 million but that is just my opinion.

If there was a human who reached over the 1 million mark it would be Tien.

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Also keep in mind that although Krillin got his potential unlocked we have yet to see the limits of Tien’s abilities unlocked!

Winner: Tien

Category #6: Who would win?

If these 2 had an all-out battle, I’d have to cast my vote for Tien. However you’d also have to ask yourself when would these two actually battle it out in the series? If you ask me, I think that Krillin was in his prime after the 3 years of training for the Android Saga. For Tien that is difficult to say because he was ALWAYS training…

Let’s see I think it would be fair if their battle took place between their Android Saga personas.

Overall, Tien is the better fighter, tactician, is far more disciplined, braver and with 3 eyes instead of 2, I could “see” him being able to see Krillin’s moves faster than Krillin cold detect his.

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As I mentioned above, if they used the Multi Form, Tien’s duplicates would be more powerful than Krillin’s.

I could see Tien somehow countering or deflecting Krillin’s attacks or even mimicking them.

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He did fall prey to the Solar Flare when Goku used it on him so he isn’t immune to it.

I also think the Tien is faster than Krillin not to mention he doesn’t lose his cool in the middle of combat.

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Trust me if Krillin used his signature move to cut Tien in half then it is lights out!

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However, I could see Krillin being beaten by that Tri-Beam…

Looking at their battles from the Android Saga, Tien would get my vote no doubt as the victor!

So what do you think? Who do you consider to be the best of the Earthlings; Tien or Krillin?