Could Kefla Defeat Jiren? | Dragon Ball Super

by Jeremy Carden

Obviously, this post will contain spoilers about the results of Dragon Ball Super Episode 116. Make sure you take that into consideration before going any further. 

Now, I am glad that this episode took its time in terms of having the characters describing the amount of power each fighter had. However, I think that Kefla was way too overpowered!

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For starters, Whis stated that Super Saiyan Kefla’s power rivaled that of the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb; which Roshi said would have defeated Jiren had it hit its target. This explains how Kefla was able to push Goku far enough for him to reactivate Ultra Instinct.

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After she went Super Saiyan 2 against Goku, Piccolo theorized that her power might have even surpassed Goku’s during his first bout with Jiren using Ultra Instinct!

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Before charging at Goku, Kefla boasts that she feels like her power could destroy an ENTIRE universe!

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It is hard to believe that only a couple of days ago, these female Saiyans did not even know what Super Saiyan was. Now, they have obtained one transformation after another, and Potara on top of that!

Fans have been in an uproar about the Universe 6 Saiyans obtaining all of these transformations with ease, but Universe 7 Saiyans had to go through years of training to obtain their power.

I do not fault Cabba at all because for the two levels of Super Saiyan he has gained, he had to actually work for them! His body was nearly broken and his emotions were pushed to the limits. Even though he is weaker than Kale and Caulifla, I think his characters speaks volumes above the girls.

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After becoming enraged over her attacks not hitting Goku, Kefla digs even deeper for more power. Cabba states her power is swelling even larger than before, and Roshi says Goku would lose if he got hit with even one of her attacks at this level.

In the video below, I go into far more detail about Kefla’s power. However, I think that she was written to be too much of a good thing. Yes, it was good to have female Super Saiyans introduced into the franchise, but it was all too much too soon.

It is crazy to think that if she went Super Saiyan 3, her power would have been multiplied by four. However, I think that four would have been the minimum increase because of her bottomless potential! For all we know, she might have obtained some sort of Super Saiyan 3 Berserker transformation! Which I think would have been the trigger to defusing Kefla before the battle could be won.

Remember that Super Saiyan Gotenks could only be utilized for five minutes before Goten and Trunks’ Fusion Dance would split. So, Gotenks had to think carefully before using this form.

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Based on the two pictures above, I actually thought that she was going to go Super Saiyan 3 based on her frustration and posture. That hunched positioning of the body is the typical stance for someone about to go Super Saiyan 3!

Considering all of the power that she was using, I was not going to be the least bit surprised had she defused before landing a finishing blow on Goku.

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I dare say that she may have been able to surpass even Jiren! That might come across as an unbelievable statement, but look at what the writers have done with her so far.

Overall, I have watched the episode around eight times alright. It literally felt like a Dragon Ball Z episode because the first 8-9 minutes consisted of nothing but Goku and Kelfa powering up while everyone is in awe of their strength!

I was a bit bored in the sense that watching two characters fighting, but one not being able to land a blow can get kind of old. Anyone reading this a Pokemon anime/video game fan?

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Don’t you feel that same level of annoyance whenever an opponent uses Double Team, Sand Attack or anything to increase their ability to dodge attacks? It gets so annoying because the battle drags on longer than it should because one Pokemon can’t land an attack at all, and their opponent just attacks whenever it wants to.

One of the worst examples of this was in the Black and White anime (arguably, the worst Pokemon series). It was during the finals of the Jr. Cup World Tournament between Trip’s Serperior and Ash’s Pignite.

During this tournament, Serperior was able to make quick work of every opponent that it was up against. To add insult to injury, this was the only Pokemon that Trip used in the entire tournament. Pignite did everything that it could, but none of its attacks landed.

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Serperior was just using its natural speed without the use of a move like Double Team and it was able to move around each attack like it was nothing. Heck, Pignite was spamming Flame Charge to increase its speed, but even that did not work! That resulted in probably one of the worst battles to watch because it was about five minutes of straight attacking and dodging until Serperior won…

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I did not feel as upset about watching Goku and Kefla but it was almost getting to that point. However, Goku made up for it with that EPIC Kamehameha to the face! It was so epic that we had to see it THREE times from different angles before Kefla was knocked out of the match.

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At least in this episode, we get a twist since Whis points out that even though Goku is handling Kefla with ease, he can’t utilize Ultra Instinct when he attacks because he is still “thinking” of the attack instead of naturally allowing himself to attack. That explains how Kefla as able to get up and dust herself off after each attack.

That is kind of ironic because Kefla’s attacks had the potential to defeat Goku if even one blast landed, but none of Goku’s moves that made contact could finish the job!

Maybe he will be able to master Ultra Instinct before his next match with Jiren.

Do you think Kefla was too overpowered? Do you think she could have defeated Jiren had she obtained Super Saiyan 3? Are you a bit surprised that she did not defuse after exhausting so much power as an enraged Super Saiyan 2? 

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Dragon Ball Z: Majin Vegeta vs. Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan

By Jeremy Carden

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A Saiyan Prince returned to his roots vs. a Saiyan-Human hybrid that has finally let his anger fully rise to the surface.

Dragon Ball fans have discussed this battle for quite some time. It may not be one of the more well-known topics of discussion, but I have seen some heated arguments about the victor of this match.

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Keep in mind that Majin Vegeta will be facing the Super Saiyan 2 Gohan seen during the Cell Saga.

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Ultimate Gohan is a lot stronger than he was against Cell (at least in terms of power alone).

However, Gohan had not trained for 7 years. This means that even though his power was truly brought to the surface after Old Kai’s ritual; he did not instantly regain the fighting instinct that he had during his pre-teen years.

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Majin Vegeta is the persona of Vegeta that had buried ever since he opened his heart while living on earth. He was practically the bloodthirsty Saiyan that he was prior to his first meeting with Goku and the Z-Fighters.

That is why I would find this battle so interesting because Vegeta (now living by his Saiyan heritage alone) would be facing off with a Gohan that has let his Saiyan half take control of the wheel.

Basically, we would be seeing 2 Saiyans itching for a good fight!

Who would be the victor?

Let’s take a look at some key elements that could decide the winner of this Super Saiyan duel.

Power:

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In the anime AND manga when Goku powered up to Super Saiyan 2. Vegeta said that he (Goku) was “at least more powerful than your son (Gohan) was against Cell.”

Remember that even Goku was surprised when Majin Vegeta powered up, and stated that the fight might take longer than he had originally thought.

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Considering that Vegeta was literally even with Goku at SS2 (no SS3 here folks), both Saiyans had surpassed the Gohan seen during the Cell Games.

Even though Vegeta is more powerful, I do not think that he would be able to walk away from this battle without a scratch.

Motivation:

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Keep in mind that until the moment Goku sacrificed himself by taking the self-destructing Cell to King Kai’s Planet, Gohan was literally acting like a Saiyan since the moment that he turned SS2.

He was finally letting his timid and reserved temperament take a backseat, and his Saiyan instincts were running the show. Gohan would be looking for an opponent to test out his new power against.

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Majin Vegeta was basically Vegeta letting go of his “human emotions” that he developed while living on earth and the family he created with Bulma. He was basically acting and fighting like he was prior to coming to earth for the Dragon Balls.

This would be the Saiyan Prince from the past that would never allow another being to rival his power (which he claimed was (#1 in the universe). For a half-breed kid to try and fight him would be something that he would never accept. That is why Vegeta would be giving it his all to squash Gohan.

Skill:

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Gohan’s fighting skills were at their best during the Cell Games because he learned everything from his father (minus things like Kaio-Ken, Spirit Bomb and Instant Transmission, etc.). We saw that Goku’s skills were enough to keep Majin Vegeta on his toes, and I’m sure that Gohan would be able to do the same.

I think what would make this fight even more spectacular than the battle against Cell would be the fact that Gohan would be facing someone MORE powerful than he was.

Vegeta would be an opponent that Gohan could not just toss around like he was nothing, and he would have to use 100% power from the start.

Gohan would finally be letting his inner Saiyan out to the surface, and even though Vegeta had decades of practice with that kind of life; I think Gohan would be scarier because he has Saiyan blood plus human rage to further his spectacular power.

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You cannot dismiss the fact that Buu Saga Vegeta had been training for nearly 7 whole years, but not to the extreme level that he did for the Androids. He reduced some of his solo training in order to train Trunks from the present timeline.

Could his brutal skills match up with Gohan who is also brutal, BUT has the training of Goku under his belt? 

During his battle with Cell, Gohan was letting the battle drag on to make the Android suffer.

Vegeta likes to taunt his opponents into showing their true power or willingly let them increase their strength for a greater challenge (even if it leads to his ass being handed to him).

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Both were landing powerful blows to their opponents. Gohan was pulling off an impressive massacre against the Cell Jrs.

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Instead of quickly defeating Cell, Gohan was willing to make him suffer with crippling blows that dealt him great pain.

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Majin Vegeta was trying to kill Goku (who was already dead at the time) with brutal tactics. Seriously, they were fighting at full force, but you could tell that Vegeta was going for blood!

These two were MADE to battle each other!

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Overall, I think that Majin Vegeta would be the victor, but it would be one hell of a fight!

If you told me that Gohan came out as the victor, I wouldn’t be surprised. I’d just want to know how he pulled it off!

Gohan coming out the victor could be the result of Vegeta doing a Saiyan monologue allowing his opponent to get the upper hand.

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Not to mention, Vegeta could push Gohan into a corner and despite his power being at this peak; Gohan might be able to dig even deeper to tap into an even higher level of power!

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The Father-Son Kamehameha Wave could be considered a tag-team attack. Would that be fair in this 1-on-1 battle?

Goku was technically there “in spirit” so Gohan is allowed to use the attack in this fight because Goku wouldn’t be adding his ki to Gohan’s attack.

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Despite Majin Vegeta’s ultimate attack being the Final Explosion, I do not know if he could use it in this battle. The reason is because if he uses the attack; he dies along with his opponent (assuming it is enough to take them out).

I am not even 100% certain that Gohan would even put up that good of a battle to make Vegeta resort to a kamikaze attack…

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Overall, this battle is one that I would love to see in some form of media (outside of the video games in the player’s own what-if battles).

Who do you think would come out on top?

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Dragon Ball Z: Can Ultimate Gohan Turn Super Saiyan?

By Jeremy Carden

I love to write about the topics that Dragon Ball fans either debate about the most or rarely think about. In this case, I believe the topic of this blog is something that fans have been debating about since the Buu Saga was first released.

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The subject of this blog is about whether or not Gohan has the ability to transform into a Super Saiyan while in his Ultimate form.

Let me start off with what some Dragon Ball sources have to say about Ultimate Gohan becoming a Super Saiyan 1 and Super Saiyan 2. Daizenshuu 2 seems to be the primary source regarding the Super Saiyan transformations that Gohan is still capable of even after Old Kai’s ritual:

“Daizenshuu 2 states that Gohan’s dormant power is bottomless. It also states that Ultimate Gohan is still capable of becoming a Super Saiyan, but even without utilizing the form he surpasses Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks in power, if Ultimate Gohan was to become a Super Saiyan his power would likely rise to levels above even Super Buu (Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks absorbed).”

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Now I will give my thoughts on the above statement from the Daizenshuu, I agree that Gohan’s dormant power is essentially bottomless. This has been shown time and time again throughout the series.The second part of the statement is something that I also agree with because Gohan was easily able to beat up Super Buu.

Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks on the other hand was more or less on par with the Majin, but he was not able to completely dominate him like Gohan did.

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As for the final part, I will say that I agree with a Super Saiyan Ultimate Gohan being able to surpass Buuhan. However, that depends on whether or not the Super Saiyan transformation would still raise Ultimate Gohan’s power 50 times over according to the Super Saiyan multiplier chart.

I mean we know that Ultimate Gohan was the strongest un-fused character in the series at that point during the Buu Saga. Could you image his power being increased by 50 with a Super Saiyan transformation, and potentially 100 times over with a Super Saiyan 2 transformation?!

I dare say that his power might even surpass that of Vegito if he had used any Super Saiyan transformation as Ultimate Gohan! However, that again is only based on whether or not the Super Saiyan multipliers would come into play with Ultimate Gohan going Super Saiyan 1 or 2. Honestly, I cannot really see why they would not be applied aside from plot purposes where Gohan was meant to lose to an opponent.

Here is another piece from Daizenshuu 2 regarding Gohan’s power:

“Ultimate Gohan can still transform further into a Super Saiyan, however, even without transforming his power still surpasses Gotenks. Ultimate Gohan is rarely shown transforming into a Super Saiyan form throughout his appearances, though he does when found as a necessity as seen in Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods when he helped contribute to making Goku become a Super Saiyan God. Later, not keeping up with his training during Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection ‘F’, he became a Super Saiyan when fighting Shisami and effortlessly beats him. Gohan going Super Saiyan in his Ultimate form was powerful enough as to where it concerned and made the newly empowered Frieza to attack and kill Gohan so his men could have a chance as Frieza himself says Gohan alone is more than capable of beating all 1000 men by himself. Gohan was brought back to life by Piccolo moments later.”

As you can see, the statement above is in reference to Gohan’s power from Battle of Gods and Revival of F.

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In the trailer for Battle of Gods, we saw Gohan powering up into a Super Saiyan (we assume Super Saiyan instead of Super Saiyan 2 due to lack of an electric aura, but the same can be said about Vegeta when he powered up without an electric aura in a rage over Bulma being smacked).

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During the actual movie, Gohan is powering up into his Ultimate form to battle Beerus.

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While the Saiyans tried twice in order to get Goku to the Super Saiyan God level, Gohan was a Super Saiyan in both attempts.

At the start of the film during the party, it appears as if Gohan was in his base form due to his appearance.

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When the gloves came off to fight Beerus, he powered up into his Ultimate form, and later into a Super Saiyan to give his dad power.

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It does not look like Gohan powered down from his Ultimate form before going Super Saiyan during the Super Saiyan God ritual. This is made apparent by his forelock hanging down, and comparing the lack of said forelock in his regular clothing.

You are probably asking yourself about Ultimate Gohan’s power as a Super Saiyan, and why he did not power up to that level to combat Beerus.

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The same can be said about Gotenks fusing as a Super Saiyan instead of a Super Saiyan 3 to combat Beerus, but I will get to that point later in the blog about how the writer’s plot trumps a character’s power.

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Moving to Revival of F (which takes place about 1 year after Battle of Gods), Gohan’s lack of training has caused his Ultimate form to lose power. True, Old Kai brought his hidden potential to the surface. However, due to no training to maintain that power; Gohan’s 100% power so to speak was much weaker at this point.

Don’t believe this could happen to someone who has their peak power brought to the surface?

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Remember that during the Cell Games, Gohan’s hidden power was brought out in the form of Super Saiyan 2. Due to 7 years of no training, Gohan’s power diminished and this was pointed out by Goku and Vegeta.

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How Ultimate Gohan’s power would decrease substantially due to merely 1 year of no training is beyond me, but that goes back to the power of the plot trumping the power of fan theories. Not to mention that Gohan said that he “thinks” that he could still go Super Saiyan implying that his power and lack of training was so serious that he might not even be able to power up like he used to.

Apparently in Revival of F, Gohan was fighting against Frieza’s army as Ultimate Gohan. I was shocked when I read about this, and this might have been due to Gohan’s new hairstyle that threw me off.

Seriously, I thought that was merely base Gohan easily fighting off Frieza’s soldiers. It is also important to point out that the Z-Fighters (Jaco included) were holding back. Even Frieza noticed that his army was so weak the “earthlings” were not even killing them, but only beating them up with ease despite being heavily outnumbered.

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Frieza was taken aback when Ultimate Gohan went Super Saiyan and took out Shisami in one blow. The power of Shisami has not been revealed, but some sources rank him around the power of Zarbon and Dodorai. This would put him around 22,000 or 23,000.

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However, that would make no sense considering he was fighting on par with Piccolo (Super Namek). Piccolo’s power had LONG surpassed 23,000, and he had accomplished that feat after his training on King Kai’s planet before he arrived on Namek and fused with Nail going into the 1,000,000 power level range.

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He had fought on par with Android 17, and further increased his power after a solo training session in the Time Chamber in preparation for the Cell Games.

I wrote a blog on my thoughts regarding Piccolo’s power during the Dragon Ball series, and you can read that here.

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During that point in the series (Revival of F), I would rank Piccolo at least around the power of a Full Power Super Saiyan Goku or Gohan from the Cell Games.

The fact that Piccolo was a bit worn out from fighting so many soldiers in my mind would not make him weak enough for a Zarbon-level opponent to be giving him a hard time!

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Not to mention that Ultimate Gohan would have to go Super Saiyan in order to knock him out!

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This just goes to show that the plot of Revival of F was meant to heavily lower the power of any character that was not Goku or Vegeta! It was almost as if I was watching GT again…

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However, not to get off subject with a rant, I think that Frieza was right to worry about Gohan’s power. Not only had he experienced that power firsthand when Gohan was a child, but he was right in assuming Gohan alone could have killed his army. A feat that I think Piccolo could have done as well if his power was not crippled by the writers…

You see if Gohan was in his base form (not Ultimate Gohan) fighting Frieza’s army, and had to take out Shisami by going Super Saiyan because by some way of writing his power was on par with Piccolo then it would have made sense.

Why?

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Piccolo is far more powerful than base Gohan, Goku and Vegeta because of his Super Namek fusion. Going Super Saiyan would have been the only way they could have beaten up Piccolo; I’m talking pre-Battle of Gods here folks.

Now for Ultimate Gohan to have to go Super Saiyan to beat this guy seems flat out ridiculous. I might have to write a separate blog about Shisami’s power because of how much nonsense that subject seems to gather.

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First form Frieza “killed” Gohan with a punch to the gut right after he had taken a Senzu bean showing that his new power was nothing to play with.

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I think that it might be safe to assume that even if Ultimate Gohan went Super Saiyan 1 or 2, he might not have been able to tangle with Final Form Frieza as his father did as a Saiyan beyond God.

Aside from the Daizenshuu, there is another source regarding Super Saiyan Ultimate Gohan:

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“In Dragon Ball Z: Dokkan Battle, Ultimate Gohan (Resurrection ‘F’) is also able to further power up into a Super Saiyan 2 form.”

Despite being a video game, it is probably safe to assume that Super Saiyan 2 Ultimate Gohan is actually a reality.

At this point it seems clear that Ultimate Gohan CAN transform into a Super Saiyan 1 and 2.

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However, it is still made unclear why he never utilized this power before in order to defeat his opponents. I know most of you are wondering why he did not use this power in order to defeat Buutenks.

I mean it was mentioned above that a Super Saiyan Ultimate Gohan might have had the power to surpass Buuhan, and that would mean he could have killed Buutenks easily.

While Majin Buu was in the middle of transforming after absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo, Gohan just stood there looking…not doing anything at all.

Goku who was watching from Supreme Kai’s planet through the crystal ball was yelling for Gohan to raise his power because Buu was once again changing.

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Did this mean that Goku knew that Gohan could raise his power higher even in his Ultimate form, or was that simply just dialogue pointing out the obvious for Gohan to not just stand there, but to prep for Buu’s more powerful form that was about to emerge?

I think it is pretty clear that if Ultimate Gohan even went to Super Saiyan 1, he could have killed Buutenks and that would have been the end of the Majin threat.

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Akira Toriyama stated that his original plan was for Ultimate Gohan to be the one to kill Buu, and become the hero of the universe once again as he had during the Cell Games. However, due to Gohan’s personality, Toriyama did not really see him as the one to be mankind’s sworn protector.

That role seemed to fit Goku’s personality more, and though I hate to admit it…he has a good point about that.

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Despite the “logic” of Ultimate Gohan clearly being the one to defeat Buu, Gohan would have most likely gone back to school and lived a normal life. Goku on the other hand would simply train to get more powerful for his own satisfaction, but also to save his earth from future threats.

In a series based on a hero who would save mankind from present and future threats, it would make more sense for Goku to be the one to kill Buu. However, in terms of power and who could have gotten the job done the easiest, that would have been Gohan hands down (or Vegito for that matter).

With that being said, it appears that if Akira allowed Gohan to go Super Saiyan in his Ultimate form, it would not have been the best move for the overall plot. This could be why Ultimate Gohan was simply fighting in his “base form” against Majin Buu.

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This could all go back to Old Kai’s ritual and what it actually did to Gohan’s power. If you ask me, it was very similar to Guru’s method of releasing a being’s hidden potential. Of course, his ritual was much faster than Old Kai’s.

Guru would simply place his hand on the person’s head, and their power would instantly be released.

Old Kai’s ritual seems to last longer if a person has tremendous hidden potential, but does not last as long for someone with little to no massive power buried deep within them.

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I think that both hidden power rituals did the SAME thing to Gohan’s power; bringing his hidden potential to the surface. However, this did not mean that Gohan’s power could not be increased through training and Zenkai boosts.

Gohan’s power seems to be essentially bottomless, and with Zenkai boosts due to his Saiyan blood, Gohan’s strength can and will increase regardless of his hidden power being brought to the surface.

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His power was around 1,500 when he first arrived on Namek, and was over 10,000 after Guru released his hidden potential.

During his battles with the Ginyu Force and Frieza, Gohan’s power increased dramatically! With Zenkai boosts from being healed with a Senzu Bean and Dende’s healing power along with his fits of rage; Gohan’s strength skyrocketed into the millions. This was proven when he had 2nd and 3rd form Frieza on the ropes!

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With that being said, Guru brought Gohan’s hidden potential to the surface that he possessed at that point in time. This created Gohan’s new “base form” so to speak.

Old Kai practically did the same thing with Ultimate Gohan being Gohan’s “base form.” Gohan could further raise his “new base form” with his Super Saiyan transformations if he needed to…like he could and should have done against the likes of Buu, Beerus and the newly revived Frieza.

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Remember what Old Kai said to Goku prior to him going to earth to use the Potara Earrings with Gohan (but instead used them with Vegeta)?

He told Goku NOT to fuse as a Super Saiyan because that form is not natural and causes a strain on the body. This would shorten the fused being’s life if he were created through a Super Saiyan fusion. Old Kai further states that due to the Potara Fusion being so powerful, going Super Saiyan could be done AFTER fusing but it would most likely NOT be necessary.

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Compare this to what he told Gohan about unleashing his new power; Old Kai said to “do that Super Saiyan thing that you always do.” Old Kai always seemed to use double-talk or give a double meaning behind his dialogue. He most likely was saying that Ultimate Gohan’s power would be sufficient against any opponent and going Super Saiyan is something that could be done but would most likely not be necessary.

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This makes a lot of sense now that I think about it, and it could indeed prove that Ultimate Gohan was practically base Gohan with a new power and attitude! His Super Saiyan transformations were practically a bonus but not a necessity due to Old Kai being confident about his ritual and other power up methods that the ways of a temporary power up like a Super Saiyan would not be needed at all.

Not to mention Ultimate Gohan does not have to suffer from physical strain or substantial Ki drain as he would have through Super Saiyan transformations (unless you exclude Full Power Super Saiyan, but even then the form is not something that would last forever like a base form would because it is not natural).

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For the most part he was right because Ultimate Gohan beat down Super Buu (prior to becoming Buutenks). Furthermore, Vegito was able to take down Buuhan will little effort in his base form (anime only).

If you ask me, the question about Ultimate Gohan going Super Saiyan is very similar to Goku and Vegeta going Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 1, 2 and 3.

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Saiyan beyond God is a “base form” taken on by a Saiyan that had absorbed the power of a Super Saiyan God. This essentially means that Saiyan beyond God Goku is just as powerful as Super Saiyan God Goku, but without the time limit that the Super Saiyan God form suffers from.

This mirrors Ulimate Gohan being on par it not more powerful than a Super Saiyan 3, but without the Ki drawbacks that the form possesses.

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A Saiyan beyond God and Ultimate Gohan can essentially raise their power through Super Saiyan transformations, but the question remains if a Super Saiyan Ultimate Gohan is 50 times more powerful than Ultimate Gohan or a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is 50 times more powerful than a Saiyan beyond God due to that “base form” practically being the same power as a Super Saiyan God.

Until we get the official power rating from Akira himself, I doubt that this subject will ever have a decisive answer. However, it is always fun to speculate about it. Although it gives me a massive headache just thinking about it, but this blog had to be written.

Overall, this was a topic that I had never thought about until I read some new sources regarding Revival of F. In GT, I was thinking that Ultimate Gohan was no more due to lack of training or the writers not including him in the series. Gohan instead would go Super Saiyan 2 in all of his battles.

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Despite Ultimate Gohan being able to increase his power through Super Saiyan transformations, Akira practically ignored this in Goku’s favor so that he could be the hero. Again, it goes back to Super Saiyan 1 or 2 Ultimate Gohan being able to take down almost any foe, and that would have made it difficult to write an opponent powerful enough to take him down.

What do you think about this theory? Could Ultimate Gohan truly go Super Saiyan 1 and 2? If so, how powerful would he have really been?

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

Dragon Ball Super: When Will The Series Take Place?

By Jeremy Carden

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With all of the leaked information about the new series, fans are very confused about when the series will take place. Originally, it was believed that Dragon Ball Super would take place after the events of Revival of Frieza.

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However, with recent pictures and chapters from the DB Super manga, it appears that this is not the case. Fans are even speculating that DB Super will erase Battle of Gods and Revival of Frieza off of the map due to an inconsistency involving Beerus and his premonition of a Super Saiyan God!

Again, this is all speculation, and this blog is going to cover my own personal thoughts as to when this series will take place. Not only that, I will mention my own opinions on where the series will go. We do know that it is going to be at least 100 episodes, and possibly more depending on how well it is received by fans.

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Overall, I feel that this series will recap the events that occurred between the defeat of Kid Buu and the movie Battle of Gods. From there, it will cover the events between Battle of Gods and Revival of Frieza.

Afterwards, it will cover the events between Revival of Frieza and Goku leaving the 28th World Tournament with Uub.

What I would love to see is the series going even beyond that like GT did!

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Something that could really throw things into perspective is the special released in Japan called “Yo! Son Goku and his friends return!” This is the anime special that introduced us to Vegeta’s brother named Tarble.

Here is what the time frame between Kid Buu’s death and Uub leaving with Goku looks like based on the original dates given in the Japanese version:

  • The short film about Tarble took place 2 years after the defeat of Kid Buu
  • Battle of Gods took place 2 years after “Yo! Son Goku”
  • Revival of Frieza occurred 1 year after Battle of Gods

This means that there are still 5 years for the writers to play around with before the anime episode called “Granddaughter Pan.” In this episode, we see the series fast forward 10 years from the death of Kid Buu.

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In the end, the biggest question raised by fans is whether or not the ending of DB Super will stay true to the original ending of DBZ. Goku leaving with Uub occurs 10 years after the defeat of Kid Buu.

Let’s say that DB Super, Revival of F and Battle of Gods fit into the continuity of events that leads up to Goku vs. Uub. Re-watching that fight, it is amazing to believe that young Uub is holding his own with Goku (who by that time had achieved Super Saiyan God, Saiyan beyond God, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and possibly even more power!)!

However, keep in mind that Goku was clearly holding back in that fight in order to test Uub’s abilities.

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Not to mention that similar to Tien’s Neo-Tri Beam against Semi-Perfect Cell, he was putting up an impressive feat by holding back Cell, but that was all he was doing. He wasn’t damaging Cell, but he was holding him off from absorbing #18.

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I think the same can be said about Uub during his fight with Goku because the Majin-turned-human was putting up a good fight, but it was clear that the only damage he inflicted on Goku was on his clothes!

Well, at the beginning of the fight he did make Goku’s arm tingle with a fierce kick. However, Goku underestimated Uub’s power, and remember Whis told him that letting his guard down makes even a body as powerful as his susceptible to damage from weaker opponents.

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Sorbet’s Ring Laser proved that point to be true when he pierced Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku’s heart!

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I actually think that Goku leaving with Uub would be even more touching since Whis (the Supreme Being) in Universe 7 ended up training a low-class Saiyan to become one of the best in the universe. This is like Goku sharing his skills with a young Indian boy from a poor village. The most unlikely people ended up learning from the best in the universe!

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However, I would still like DB Super to possibly continue even after Goku leaves with Uub so we can see what happens next!

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When you think about it, 5 years in DB time is not really that much. Keep in mind that the 3 years of training for the battle with the Androids was shown in a couple of episodes, but “skipped” in a single episode! Compare that to the “5 minutes” for Namek to explode, and that was stretched out for around a dozen episodes…

DB Super is going to be doing some obvious time jumps, but I think it will be worth it. I am one of those fans that love to see things being covered and explained instead of skipped over.

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Ever since I saw the picture of Gohan and Videl on their wedding day in Granddaughter Pan, I wanted to see those two being hitched! In the first episode of the new series, we learn that Goten is going to be looking for a gift because his brother’s wedding is happening soon.

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Based on Goku’s outfit while he is farming, I have a suspicion that Tarble will appear, and then we will jump to the events post-Battle of Gods. In the leaked manga chapter, we see Goku farming, Mr. Satan arriving with 100 million zeni for him, and Goku telling Goten that he wishes he could train with King Kai.

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In the Tarble special, Goku asks Chi-Chi why they have to farm despite the fact that Mr. Satan had given them a ton of money. His wife explains that despite the money, they should still work to earn their own form of financial stability. I find that interesting because it was Goku who fought to save the universe from Buu (along with help from his friends of course), and Mr. Satan was returning the favor because he thought Goku deserved something out of it!

Also in the special, Mr. Satan invites all of the Z-Fighters to his new hotel opening in honor of him defeating Buu. Here is where we reach a form of contradiction from the main series.

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Remember that 4 months after the defeat of Kid Buu, Goku had Shenron erase the memories of Majin Buu from the minds of earthlings so Good Buu (Fat Buu or Mr. Buu) could live a peaceful life on earth.

The only way I could see the world still worshiping Mr. Satan would be for them to praise and award him during the 4 months between Kid Buu’s death and their minds being erased. They must have had plans for the hotel along with the other awards for him, but after the mind wipe it seems clear that they gave it to him anyway (despite not knowing what threat they were saved from).

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Another thing to mention is the fact that Tarble was mentioned in Battle of Gods by Bulma. They were looking for a fifth Saiyan to help in the Super Saiyan God ritual, but they could not find one. Vegeta mentioned that his brother is in another star system, but he did not know which one.

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This most likely means we will indeed see everyone meeting Tarble in the first part of DB Super.

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Not to mention we see Goku training on King Kai’s Planet in the new trailer, and this was also seen at the beginning of Battle of Gods. My guess is Chi-Chi loosened the chain on Goku since Mr. Satan gave them all of that money, and he was allowed to do some training.

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Now let’s talk about Beerus’ premonition about the Super Saiyan God possibly erasing Battle of Gods and Revival of Frieza out of the picture. Above is a photo from Chapter 1 of the DB Super manga, and it has driven fans insane!

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Beerus is on some alien planet, and he is having a feast. After revealing that he knew the inhabitants had poisoned his food (with no effect on him at all), he blew up their planet. He then talks to Whis about his dream about an opponent that would entertain him known as a Super Saiyan God.

Apparently, Beerus had just awoken from his 39 year slumber and was still a bit tired. Whis then suggests they go to their home world so he can remember his dream better.

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I thought that the Oracle Fish would be the key to the timeline. Why? Remember according to Beerus, it was the fish that told him that a Super Saiyan God would appear to give him a good fight and rival his power. He said that he would appear in 39 years, and that was why Beerus woke up “early” from his slumber because of the premonition from the Oracle Fish.

Again, it depends on the translation from the dub and manga because the Oracle Fish’s prophecy differs. One says that the fish foretold of the Super Saiyan God, but the other says that his prophecy was only that an unnamed opponent that would eventually become a rival to Beerus would appear. Then it was during a dream Beerus had while sleeping for 39 years that revealed the identity of his rival; a Super Saiyan God.

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Originally, I thought this scene from the manga would be Beerus thinking about the prophecy the fish told him, he would sleep 39 years after Whis takes him home, and then he would reawaken during Battle of Gods.

However, seeing Old Kai and Kibito Kai in the last panel shot that theory apart…

Overall, it is inconsistent that Beerus apparently woke up earlier in DB Super than he did in Battle of Gods. I do not think that this one little thing will erase that movie and Revival of F from the continuity. It could be that Akira is simply changing things up a bit for something just a little different.

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I do find it interesting that in the beginning of Battle of Gods, when the Kais sense Beerus’ awakening, there is a wide shot of a distant galaxy, and what appears to be the remains of a destroyed planet.

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After that, we see that Old and Supreme Kai were watching the events unfold. Could those floating rocks in space be the remains of the alien world that Beerus destroyed in the DB Super manga, or were they simply just asteroids floating in space?

Just something interesting to think about…

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Finally, I will simply talk about what I think will happen in the series. It has been revealed that a new character named Champa and a female-looking version of Whis will appear on Beerus’ planet.

Apparently he is also a God of Destruction, and he could be from one of the 11 other universes in the DB world.

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When he appears in DB Super has not yet been revealed, but my guess is either before Battle of Gods or after Revival of Frieza.

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I think it would be interesting for the series to allow us to see some of the 11 other universes. Considering Goku and Vegeta’s power is growing at an impressive rate, it seems clear that they may soon surpass Beerus with their individual power.

Not sure how long it would take for them to ever pass Whis, but at some point I think that they will. Regardless as to whether it is through them working together or fusing. Since the series is set to be 100 episodes (and maybe more), I have no doubt that other gods from the other universes will appear! Beerus even said in Battle of Gods that some of those universes spawned beings that were more powerful than he and Whis.

We all know that Goku thrives for fighting more powerful opponents, and Vegeta will not allow himself to be outdone by that low-level clown!

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Could DB Super be similar to the web comic DB Multiverse, and we will see a huge tournament between other DB universes?

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Either way, I think that the series has a lot of potential, and I am looking forward to it. I really hope that it is not like GT because I want all of the characters to shine in DB Super! GT was pretty much “Goku Time” and made everyone else weak.

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In DB Super, fans fear that with opponents like gods and other powerful beings, Goku and Vegeta will be the ONLY ones who have a chance to oppose them.

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This means that everyone else in the show like Super Gotenks, Piccolo and Ultimate Gohan would not stand a chance. Given their performance in Revival of Frieza (minus Gotenks)…this might be the case.

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I want to see a teenage/adult Gotenks, Piccolo reaching a new level of power, and Gohan not being written to be a weakling when he is one of the most powerful beings in the universe!

There are so many twists and turns that this new series can travel down, but I will remain a fan and view it! I do not want to be one of those fans who give the series a thumbs down before it even airs because I want this to be great. The main reason for the series being revived is because of its popularity that is being kept alive by the fans.

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With that being said, what do you think about this theory? How far will DB Super go? Will it continue up until the end of DBZ when Goku leaves with Uub? Will this erase the final 3 episodes of DBZ completely, and create something new? Do you think we will see the other 11 universes?

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

Dragon Ball Z: Is Super Saiyan 3 Goku More Powerful Than Ultimate Gohan?

By Jeremy Carden

There is a battle that has caused a lot of tension within the fan base of the Dragon Ball series. I have seen many blogs and videos about this particular subject. Fans have debated about Gogeta vs. Vegito, Kid Buu vs. Super Buu (Ultimate Gohan absorbed) and Goku vs. Superman.

However, the topic of this blog will focus on the ultimate battle between Goku and Gohan.

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While reading this blog, please remember that I will be discussing Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Ultimate Gohan (also called Mystic Gohan by some fans) from the Majin Buu Saga.

This blog will not include anything between the time of Kid Buu’s death and the ending of DBZ when Goku leaves with Uub.

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That means nothing about Super Saiyan God or Dragon Ball GT will be included in this blog.

Let’s get this battle started! As with most of my “Who would win?” blogs, I will start this one by expressing my thoughts right off the bat. I feel that in terms of power alone; Gohan is the winner.

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Does that mean he would win? Yes…and no. Just because Gohan is more powerful than Goku does not mean that he would win.

At this point, some readers are probably shaking their heads at my belief that Ultimate Gohan is more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

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Before I go any further, I just want to say that this blog is based on my own personal opinion. If you feel that Goku is more powerful than Gohan then you are entitled to your opinion. From this point on in the blog, I will attempt to use facts from the manga AND anime in order to get my point across. I would love to hear your thoughts in the comments below after finishing this blog, and you can tell me if I have persuaded you that Gohan is more powerful.

Believe it or not, when it comes down to determining which warrior is more powerful; you have to examine which form of Majin Buu is more powerful. The 2 Buus that I am talking about are Super Buu and Kid Buu.

The reason that I picked out these forms of Buu is because they are the Buus that Goku and Gohan battled the hardest against.

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If you have ever read my very first DBZ blog about which form of Buu is the most powerful, then you know that I feel that Super Buu (Ultimate Gohan absorbed) is the strongest, and Kid Buu is far from #1.

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In any case, we know that Kid Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Goku are more or less equals. It was mentioned that if Goku had started off the fight at 100%, and did not hold back so that Vegeta would have a chance to fight; he could have killed Kid Buu.

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He mentioned the same about his battle with Fat Buu, but in that case he was not holding back for Vegeta’s sake. In that fight, he was holding back in order for Gohan, Goten and Trunks to have a shot at fighting for the planet. However, unlike the battle with Kid Buu, it was clear that he was holding back (a lot) during his fight with Fat Buu. He did not battle to the point of exhausted as he did against Kid Buu.

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When talking about two fighters who were more or less equals, Super Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks seem to fit that category very nicely. Gotenks was playing around with Buu during their fight, and it was literally a back and forth conflict. Each fighter was able to take a blow, and dish one back out to their opponent! You could argue that Buu was holding back because he was waiting for Gohan to arrive, but it is clear he and Gotenks were on the same plateau of power.

It was Buu’s regeneration powers and endurance that kept the young Super Saiyan 3 from putting him down for the count. However, when Gotenks was about to kill Buu for good, his power ran out and his Fusion ended.

Alright, so we know that Goku and Gotenks had the power to completely annihilate the pink menace that they battled against. They just held back for different reasons; Goku for his respect of Vegeta’s pride, and Gotenks’ cocky nature.

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This leads us to Goku’s comment to Vegeta before they escaped from Super Buu’s head. He mentioned that neither of them could survive if Buu fought them after leaving his body. Fusion was the only way that he and Vegeta would stand a chance.

Goku was literally saying that he was NOT powerful enough to destroy Super Buu if they had to battle him!

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Remember that Ultimate Gohan mopped the floor with Super Buu. He did not even use ki attacks against the pink titan, he was using nothing but melee attacks to push Buu into a corner.

This leads to another point about how powerful Buu became after absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo. We have established that Gohan is more powerful than Super Buu, and this means he is clearly more powerful than Gotenks.

He took Buu apart without much effort, but Gotenks was literally kept on his toes by Buu’s power. So, after absorbing Gotenks, we can assume that Buu’s power pretty much doubled in power.

I think we can conclude that Buu’s absorption technique is a power-up that takes the person(s) absorbed, and adds their power to Buu’s.

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With that being said, “Buutenks” had a power that was over double what it was before. Keep in mind that Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks were pretty much even, and he took Piccolo’s power too (though the Namek’s absorption was more about adding his intelligence to Buu rather than his overall power).

In the anime, Gohan and Buu were on par with each other. It was not until Buu starting using “the Piccolo in him” to chip away at Gohan’s confidence, and that led to him being completely overpowered.

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Unlike the anime, the manga portrayal of Buutenks vs. Gohan was showing Buu’s power to be something that Gohan stood absolutely no chance against.

It appears that Gohan was indeed superior to Buu and Gotenks, but less than twice their power. I would say that he was probably somewhere between 1.2-1.5 times more powerful than Super Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.

Where does this leave Goku?

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Another blog that I wrote awhile back was concerning the subject of Super Gotenks’ power compared to Goku’s. In that blog, I talked about my thoughts on how even a Super Saiyan 1 Gotenks had power that was superior to Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

Why would I say that?

Remember that Goku originally declined killing the Fat Buu because he wanted the boys to save the world instead of relying on him (since he was dead, Goku did not feel it was his right to step in as a savior to the planet).

He taught the boys the Fusion Dance, and felt that it would be the ONLY way of defeating Buu. Trunks asked why he did not teach them Super Saiyan 3 because if he and Goten teamed up at that level then they would beat Buu for sure. However, Goku told them that Fusion was the ONLY way.

After seeing how sad they were, he showed them Super Saiyan 3 before leaving with Baba. In my opinion, I feel that Goku thought that Goten and Trunks fused as Super Saiyans would be enough to defeat Buu (without the need for a Super Saiyan 3 transformation). Goku knew that level 3 was something not meant to be used in the living world due to the rapid ki depletion that it causes for the user outside of other world.

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Considering that he had just fought Buu himself at Super Saiyan 3, I think that Goku knew for a fact that a Super Saiyan 1 Fusion would be enough to kill Buu. This means that it is safe to conclude that Super Saiyan Gotenks (pre-Time Chamber) was in the same realm of power as Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

Let’s take things a step further in order to analyze just how powerful Gotenks was. After training in the Time Chamber for 30 minutes on the outside world before Super Buu lost his patience (which equals just about 7 and a half days inside of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber), Gotenks’ power was said to have increased dramatically.

I think that if there was a gap between pre-Time Chamber Super Saiyan Gotenks and Super Saiyan 3 Goku; that gap was closed after the children’s 7.5 days of training.

I dare say that Gotenks may have become even more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. By how much was never determined, but for the sake of simplicity (without downplaying either of their power levels), let’s say that Super Saiyan 1 Gotenks and Super Saiyan 3 Goku were even.

Going Super Saiyan 2 doubles the power of a Super Saiyan 1, and going Super Saiyan 3 multiples the power of a Super Saiyan 2 by four.

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Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks (at minimum) is 8 times more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

Ultimate Gohan is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks (who is more or less on the same playing field as Super Buu), but not twice as powerful.

Overall, Goku is not as powerful as Gotenks and Gohan. However, his original goal of having the boys measure up to their destinies as the protectors of the planet was realized. His intention was making them even more powerful than he was in order to save the earth from Buu.

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This same goal was similar to Goku’s plans of having Gohan exceed his power to save the world from Cell.

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Not to mention that Piccolo’s goal during the Saiyan Saga was training Gohan to become more powerful than him as well!

In any case, I think I have spelled out why I feel that Ultimate Gohan’s power is clearly superior to his father’s even at Super Saiyan 3.

Considering that Gohan is more powerful than his dad, you are probably wondering whether or not Gohan would be named as the winner before the battle even began.

I say that despite being more powerful, Gohan would not easily win the battle. This is mainly due to Goku being the superior fighter.

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Looking back at the DBZ series, I feel that Gohan’s power and combat skills were at their peak during the Cell Games.

True, Old Kai unlocked ALL of his hidden powers, but that would not unlock his combat skills and fighting instincts.

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Vegeta mentioned that Gohan’s power was a lot higher as a child, and this was when he witnessed Gohan power up to show Kibito the Super Saiyan 2 level.

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While watching his son fight with Dabura, Goku even brings up the fact that Gohan’s fighting sense was lost during his 7 years of no training.

After the battle with Cell, Gohan pretty much neglected his training in favor of studying. The end result was that his 11-year-old persona was more powerful both in strength and in fighting abilities.

Compare this to Goku, he trained for 7 years straight against warriors from across space and time during his stay on the Grand Kai’s planet.

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Before he slacked off in his training, Gohan knew everything that his father had to teach him. Their training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber allowed Gohan to pick up on his father’s technique and surpass his power.

If Ultimate Gohan fought against Super Saiyan 3 Goku, I’d say that Goku would be able to not only predict what Gohan would do next, but outsmart him as well during combat. Goku taught Gohan nearly everything that he knows about fighting.

Piccolo was the only other person to train Gohan. Krillin and Gohan did “mind training” on their trip to Namek, but we know that his father and “Big Green Uncle” were his primary instructors.

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Keep in mind that Goku spent 3 years training alongside Gohan and Piccolo. This means that he has seen everything that Gohan knows about fighting and enhanced his son’s skills in the Time Chamber.

Again, Gohan is more powerful, but Goku has been able to hold his own against more powerful opponents in the past.

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It has also been shown many times that if Goku is backed into a corner, he is capable of reaching incredible new levels of power.

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Of course, we know that Gohan does the same, and that goes to show he is indeed the son of Goku.

Aside from strength, Gohan has one huge advantage over Super Saiyan 3 Goku that has not yet been mentioned. Gohan’s power would not deplete as quickly as Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

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Remember that Goku admitted to Vegeta that even though he can go Super Saiyan 3; he can only hold the form for a short amount of time.

For fans who say that Super Saiyan 3 Goku is more powerful than Ultimate Gohan, I ask you this one question: Could Goku defeat his son before his Super Saiyan 3 power depletes?

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With a well placed Warp Kamehameha, I think that he could deal some heavy damage. Either way, I think this would be a tough battle.

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Super Saiyan Goku was holding his own so against Ultimate Gohan…well it was Buu’s thought form of Ultimate Gohan. Not to mention it was a filler scene, but I wanted to mention this because I know someone would say something about it in the comment section.

Something to remember about this fight was that Goku was getting exhausted, but Gohan was a thought form meaning that he could not be damaged or weakened so their battle is not really something to be used as solid evidence for this subject.

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Ultimate Gohan’s power is his maximum potential brought out to the surface, and it does not deplete his ki supply like a Super Saiyan 3 transformation would. Goku even says that Gohan’s power was higher than it was ever was even when his son was a Super Saiyan.

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The one moment that we could have and should have seen these 2 fighting was right after Gohan powered up after Old Kai unlocked his potential.

Just as Goku showed Goten and Trunks how to go Super Saiyan 3 before going back to the land of the dead, I think he should have battled Gohan before his son returned to the land of the living.

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Would have been a great touch as to how Goku shows his love for his children in the best way that he knows how.

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Buutenks reverting back to Buuccolo was another moment in the anime and manga that differed. In the anime, Goku was at Super Saiyan 3, but was doing what he could just to keep up with Buu. Fans argue that he was stalling for Gohan to find the Potara Earring. In the manga, this “fight” never happened; Buutenks went to Buuccolo without fighting Goku.

However, for fans who think Goku was more powerful than Buutenks: why would Goku want or need to permanently fuse with Ultimate Gohan…if he had the power to do it solo?

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In the manga and anime, Goku states that Gohan could defeat Buuccolo all by himself. The way he says that does seem to imply that Goku was disappointed in Buu’s drastic drop in power. I mean Goku was in a tense situation because he was desperate to fuse with Gohan, but now he was in a position where fusion was not needed because Gohan could win alone.

Really it is all up to personal interpretation about how Goku said what he said about Gohan beating Buu. I will admit that it does seem like Goku is saying that he could take Buu himself, but really I just do not think that this is the case.

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One last piece of evidence that fans like to bring up is the fact that Goku’s Ki was sensed from the Sacred Land of the Kais from Earth.

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However, when Gohan unleashed his new power, Buu was the ONLY person in the lower realm (Earth) to take notice of his power.

I think that ki sensing somehow works in reverse when it comes to comparing the lower realm (land of the living) and the other world (land of the dead).

On Supreme Kai’s planet, it makes sense that they could sense an extremely high power level from earth. However, it also makes sense that an extremely high power from the Kai planet could not be sensed from earth.

Remember that in the anime, Goku mentioned that Kid Buu was using Instant Transmission. That was how he found other planets with high ki readings during his hunt for Goku and Vegeta.

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In the manga, it was mentioned that he was using the “Kai Kai” or Instantaneous Moment used by Kibito Kai. This is a teleporting technique that does not require a ki signature for the user to transport to. This explains how in the manga, Kid Buu regenerated from his Planet Burst move on earth, and then went instantly to Supreme Kai’s planet to fight the Saiyans.

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Compared to the anime, Kid Buu sensed Goku and Vegeta when they raised their power levels to draw Buu to their location. He was on Grand Kai’s planet during that moment, and it made sense that he could track their powers since he was in the other world just as they were.

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What does this have to do with Buu sensing Gohan’s power from earth? Well Super Buu is an interesting being because he detected Gohan’s power, but Piccolo nor the boys (Goten and Trunks) were able to sense it. Perhaps it is because he is a powerful being that he could track a power that a Namek could not? Either way, it could be because Gohan was in the middle of a magical ceremony that his power was more “contained” when he unleashed it when compared to a Super Saiyan transformation.

I mean Gohan was on the verge of damaging the Kai planet by powering up, and Goku was on the verge of ripping apart the earth. The main difference was that Goku was not using Super Saiyan 3 for the first time, and he was “putting on a show” in order to stall for Trunks to find the Dragon Radar.

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We later saw that he could go Super Saiyan 3 in an instant as he did against Buutenks.

Gohan was doing the “Super Saiyan thing” as Old Kai put it in order to unleash his true power. So, I can see why the lower realm would have a difficult time tracking a high ki signature from the land of the dead.

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How else can you explain no one on earth sensing Goku’s power when he first unlocked Super Saiyan 3 during his time on Grand Kai’s planet?

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In the end, I think that Gohan has the power to win, but Goku has the skill to stay alive until he finds a weakness in Gohan’s defenses in order to land some powerful hits.

What do you think about this? Do you feel that Gohan’s power is superior, or does Super Saiyan 3 Goku have the power to surpass his son?

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Dragonball Z Theory Warp Kamehameha or Final Flash: Which Move Was More Impressive Against Perfect Cell?

By Jeremy Carden

The trademark attacks of Goku and Vegeta inflicted a lot of damage to the Perfect Android known as Cell.

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Goku used his Warp Kamehameha Wave against him in the Cell Games and Vegeta launched his Final Flash right after Cell reached his Perfect Form.

Though it is has never been determined which attack got the better of Perfect Cell. When you look at both attacks carefully and the situation that the Saiyans were in along with Cell’s reaction to the attack, there is a lot more to it than Cell being blasted and regenerating.

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I know it is clear that the BEST attack against Cell was the Father-Son Kamehameha Wave because that was the attack that ultimately killed him. Keep in mind that both Goku AND Vegeta played a role in Gohan’s attack being successful.

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In both the anime AND manga, Goku was coaching Gohan during the beam struggle.

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Finally, Vegeta steps in with a Ki blast that catches Cell off guard and that leads to his defeat.

Now in terms of Goku and Vegeta’s individual blasts on Cell, there were a lot of key factors that took place as a setup for their attacks.

  1. Perfect Cell was beating them both down!

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After Cell reached his Perfect Form, Super Vegeta (Ascended Super Saiyan) was being outclassed in every single way. This was the reverse of their earlier battle when Vegeta was beating down Semi-Perfect Cell. When it was clear that Vegeta was no match for the android, he powered up his Final Flash.

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During the Cell Games, Full Power Super Saiyan Goku was going blow for blow against Cell. After Cell blew up the tournament ring, it seemed like he was getting the upper hand because there was no longer any boundaries to their match. Goku realized that he had to go for broke and flew up into the air to charge up his Warp Kamehameha Wave.

  1. Goku and Vegeta put most of their Ki into their attacks

Considering that the Saiyans knew releasing their power in small amounts was not going to be enough to defeat Cell, they opted to go for broke by unleashing a huge Ki attack with the intention of finally killing Cell.

How do I know they used most of their Ki in their attacks?

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Vegeta was visibly exhausted after hitting Cell with the Final Flash and Piccolo sensed that the powers of both Cell AND Goku had dropped significantly after the Warp Kamehameha attack; Goku from using a large amount of his Ki for the attack and Cell’s power went down sharply due to the regeneration he needed to do to recover from the attack.

  1. Both moves took awhile to charge but Cell just stood there while the Saiyans powered up their attacks!

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If there is one thing we’ve learned about the Dragon Ball series, it is that if an opponent is powering up; you stand there and do nothing!

  1. Both attacks had enough power to blow up the planet

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Trunks screamed out to his father that his blast was going to blow up the planet if he launched an attack with that much force from that particular position at Cell.

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Piccolo screamed at everyone to get out of the way because Goku was going to use his Kamehameha! Cell noticed that similar to Vegeta, Goku was in a position with an attack so powerful that if he launched it from that angle the entire planet would blow up!

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Kind of like how Vegeta (with only a power level of 18,000) back in the Saiyan Saga would have blown up the earth with his Galick Gun, the powerful Super Saiyans fighting against Cell could have done the same. This shows that it isn’t about how much power you have that matters in a Ki attack in terms of what effect it has on the planet, it depends on where you launch because depending on the position of the user, the move could blow up a planet.

  1. Goku and Vegeta both played on Cell’s pride and ego

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Now here is what I like about Vegeta in this situation; he played himself! What do I mean by that? Remember that Cell has the cells of Vegeta and knew how to play on Vegeta’s ego, pride and thirst for a challenge against powerful foes. That was how he was able to trick Vegeta into letting him obtain his Perfect Form. Now in this situation, Vegeta played on Cell’s ego (the same as his) by telling him that if he really wanted to test out the limits of his new form that he’d take on the Final Flash head-on!

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In Goku’s case, we again come across a reverse situation of something that took place earlier in their battle. When Cell charged up a powerful earth shattering Kamehameha Wave, Goku warned him not to put that much Ki into the attack or it would destroy the planet. He used a large amount of Ki in his attack while Goku watched on in a panicked like state. After launching the blast at Goku, the Saiyan flew up into the air and used Instant Transmission to dodge at the last second which prevented the planet from blowing up!

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Alright, now let’s look at the Warp Kamehameha; Goku used a large amount of Ki in his attack while Cell watched with a panicked look on his face. At first, Cell thought that he had called Goku’s bluff because he knew that based on their earlier shuffle, Goku would not place the safety of the earth in danger just to win the fight. However, this proved to work to Goku’s advantage when he took Cell by surprise!

  1. Both Saiyans caught Cell off-guard and was he nearly killed by their attacks

Since Cell “allowed” Goku and Vegeta to charge up their attacks, this left him wide open to take the full force of their techniques.

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Against the Final Flash, Cell was completely taken by surprise! If Cell had not dodged the blast at the last moment by the skin of his teeth…he would have been destroyed! The attack blasted off a good portion of his upper-torso and it was clear that the rest of his body would have been destroyed if he had not reacted at the last moment.

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It wasn’t until the last moment when the blast was about to hit him that Cell realized that the Final Flash was capable of completely annihilating him!

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When Goku used his Warp Kamehameha, Cell had no time at all to defend himself. The blast took off his full upper torso leaving only his legs remaining! Goku’s Instant Transmission put him in a position where Cell’s guard wasn’t up and he didn’t have time to react like he did against the Final Flash (well at least the split second he had to dodge).

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So, we know that if Cell had moved out of the way at the last second the dodge the Final Flash, he would have been completely destroyed!

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Looking at the Warp Kamehameha, Goku actually “killed” Cell. However, that would only apply to the text in the manga which was altered in the anime. See in the manga, Cell stated that he could regenerate as long as his head remained intact. This is similar to the Namekian regeneration technique that he acquired from Piccolo’s cells.

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In the Buu Saga, Piccolo tells Trunks that he could regenerate as long as his head wasn’s damaged. This was what happened after Trunks breaks Piccolo (when he was a statue after being hit by Dabura’s Stone Spit).

Cell in the anime says that every cell of his body has a life of its own and even if he was blown to pieces, as long as one single cell remained; he could regenerate. So if we  look at the text of the anime only then we can say that technically Goku “killed” Cell because he blew his head completely off!

  1. Cell regenerated shocking both Saiyans!

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Vegeta expressed much joy in the fact that he maimed the “perfect” android that he heard so much about. However, Cell quickly put a stop to the Saiyan’s outburst by regenerating all of the damage he took from the Final Flash. This left Vegeta with a VERY surprised look on his face.

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While the Z-Fighters were celebrating Goku’s apparent victory over Cell (well most of them anyway), Goku did not buy into the fact that he had won. He said that he could still sense a lot of energy within what was left of Cell’s body. Then like something straight out of a nightmare; Cell’s lower-half jumped up and he fully regenerated!

  1. Goku and Vegeta blast Cell with a barrage of Ki blasts

After Cell regenerated, Vegeta was shocked because that was his trump card and it failed! He then powered up and fired a Ki blast that just left a small scratch on Cell’s body.

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Vegeta then fired dozens of Ki blasts but Cell simply walked toward him out of the smoke cloud and punched him right in the face.

Goku and Cell were having a fierce exchange with high speed melee attacks, but after being knocked into a cliff and Cell was about to charge him; Goku hopped out of the rubble for a counterattack!

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He unleashed a fierce barrage of Ki blasts (Continuous Kamehameha) that had Cell stuck in place! The android knew that he was in a tight spot and unleashed his Perfect Barrier technique to save himself.

Later on, he admitted to himself that if he had not put up his barrier when he did…Goku’s attack might have actually killed him!

It is interesting that despite both Super Saiyans releasing most of their Ki in their attacks to kill Cell but failed, they still had enough power to unleash a barrage of powerful energy blasts on the android!

  1. The Saiyans give up or were ultimately defeated

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After a punch to the face, Cell kicked Vegeta right into the air and ended it with an elbow to the back which sent him hurtling into the ground. Super Vegeta was utterly defeated…

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Realizing that his Continuous Kamehameha was no use against the Perfect Barrier, Goku paused while he and Cell took a short breather. A few moments later, Goku declared that he was no match for Cell and forfeited the match.

Now with all of this being said which attack actually got the better of the self acclaimed “Perfect Android?” 

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Both attacks were very impressive and powerful, but neither one got the job done. I’ll give the Saiyans credit because despite using such lethal techniques neither one of them blew up the planet. Trunks pointed out that Vegeta directed the Final Flash into space after it hit Cell to prevent the earth from exploding. Goku used the Instant Transmission to hit Cell in a vulnerable position that would do as little damage to the planet as possible.

It is difficult to say if the Warp Kamehameha would have COMPLETELY destroyed Cell like the Final Flash would have if Cell had stayed in that one spot. You do have to look at the slight differences of the position of the blasts when they made contact with Cell.

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The Final Flash would have hit Cell’s entire body, but Goku was in a position where the Warp Kamehameha could only hit his upper torso. Based on the amount of Ki Goku put into the attack, I’d say that if he had fired his technique from the sky like Vegeta did on Cell it would have destroyed him (and the planet unless he aimed it to fly into space like Vegeta did with his move after it hit Cell).

After going over all of the bits and pieces of information, I’m going to say that the Warp Kamehameha did Cell the most harm. Don’t get me wrong, the only reason these attacks did not kill Cell was because he moved at the last moment against the Final Flash and it was the change in translation of the original dialogue that prevent Goku from killing Cell.

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Looking aside from those small details, the Warp Kamehameha clearly did the most damage to Cell. I’m not just saying that because it blew up more of his body than the Final Flash, but it has to do with the aftermath of the attacks. After Cell regenerated from his damage, he took out Vegeta with ease and then got into battle with Ultra Trunks.

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When he regenerated from Goku’s attack, it was clear that his power level had decreased dramatically just like Goku’s because he had to exert a lot of energy to regenerate. He had to eat a Senzu Bean before engaging in battle with Gohan. That just shows how much of an effect Goku’s attack had on him.

Now that I have given you my reasoning behind why the Warp Kamehameha was the better move, feel free to express which attack you felt was more effective on Cell and why.

In case you need to see the scenes from the DBZ series when Goku and Vegeta use these moves against Cell then here they are!

Goku’s Warp Kamehameha

Vegeta’s Final Flash

Both are indeed highlights from the Cell Arc but only one can be named the best attack on the Android!

 

DBZ: How Powerful Was Future Gohan?

By Jeremy Carden

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One of the most popular characters in the Dragon Ball franchise and a fan favorite among the many incarnations of Goku’s son Gohan is his persona from the timeline of Future Trunks.

After Dr. Gero’s androids emerged and began killing the inhabitants of the earth, Gohan was the last warrior standing to combat this deadly threat.

Eventually, Gohan fell to the power of the android duo and the fate of the world rested on the shoulders of Future Trunks. However, the question still remains regarding how powerful Future Gohan actually was.

Many fans are curious as to how a 23-year-old Gohan was unable to go any further than the regular Super Saiyan transformation.

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Despite being in an apocalyptic world and fighting/training for 13 years on his own, there are significant differences between his persona from the timeline we know of where he ascended to a Super Saiyan 2 and killed Cell ending the android threat to the world and the timeline of Trunks’ future where the androids were destroying the planet.

We know that Gohan was the last warrior who survived after the future versions of Android #17 and #18 attacked the earth and the Z-Fighters were killed during the battle.

He tells Trunks that the anger he felt over remembering how unfair it was for his friends to die to the androids was what fueled his rage enough for him to finally become a Super Saiyan.

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Something that we never learn and what could add a lot of information to this topic is when exactly Gohan became a Super Saiyan. He told Trunks that seeing his friends getting killed by #17 and #18 created the necessary emotions for him to ascend doesn’t give us that much of a way to pinpoint his ascension. It could be argued that he was present during the big battle and saw the Z-Team getting killed right before his eyes. From there he somehow escaped and remembering the fear, despair and anger of that battle caused him to become a Super Saiyan.

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You could also argue that he did not ascend until later in his life as a teenager after he decided to devote his life to training and protecting the earth. During the scene where we see Future Chi-Chi and Future Ox-King, it was mentioned that after the androids attacked the earth, Gohan devoted his life to avenge the death of his friends. We can assume that he gave up his mother’s dreams for him to become a scholar to go into his “father’s work” to protect the earth. That means no more endless days at his desk studying and doing homework, Gohan was training full time in order to defeat the androids!

Whatever the case maybe, we know that Gohan was alone in his training. Compared to the Gohan of the present, Future Gohan did not go inside of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Goku for a year (well not a full year but close to one) and he did not have 3 years of intense training prior to the androids arrival with Goku and Piccolo.

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So we can assume that the Future Gohan we see at the beginning of the History of Trunks special was weaker than the Gohan of the same age before the androids arrive.

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Considering that Gohan did not have experienced warriors to assist him in his training, it was all a solo effort in an attempt to raise his skills high enough to take down the androids. Personally, I thought it was strange that no one told Future Gohan about the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. I know that everyone who knew about it (Goku, Piccolo and Kami) had all died, but through the use of King Kai’s telepathy or Mr. Popo contacting Gohan directly they could have informed him of the room and he could have used that for intense training. However, I guess that would make too much sense and this is DB we are talking about here…

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Based on what we learned from the manga and anime special, the only form of combat training that Gohan received that involved another powerful being was when he fought with androids on multiple occasions. According to Ox-King, Gohan encountered the killer bots many times before we see him fight them at the amusement park and in the destroyed city where they finally kill him.

Since the androids do not have a Ki signature for him to sense, it can be assumed that Gohan would arrive on the scene of an android attack. Whenever they were demolishing a city or going on a killing spree, Gohan could probably sense a drastic disappearance of minor Ki signatures (the innocent people being killed off).

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I say this because thinking back to Namek, Gohan and the others could sense whenever Vegeta or one of Frieza’s men was killing a village of Nameks from faraway. With that being said, I think the same is true about the androids whenever they killed people “for fun.”

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Gohan would probably arrive on the scene and engage the androids in battle and escape when things got too overwhelming for him. It was 1 warrior against 2 androids who had superior power, but the fact that he could escape to fight another day says a lot about Gohan’s speed and evasion tactics. Not to mention the androids were not capable of sensing his Ki signature to track him down.

You could say that the androids were playing cat and mouse with him just as Future Trunks told Goku when he described how they enjoyed hunting him down.

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Considering that the Zenkai boost was still in play, Gohan would possibly get more powerful after each android encounter if he suffered a major injury and recovered.  Similar to how he had major power boosts on Namek while fighting the Ginyu Force or Frieza, we can assume that healing from android attacks increased his power. Then fighting them and training between bouts increased his skill.

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While dining at Bulma’s house where she comments on how Gohan reminded her so much of his late father Goku, Gohan says that he wears his dad’s old colors to inspire him to become stronger.

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Overall, I think Future Trunks is the best way of figuring out how powerful Future Gohan was. Before going to the past to deliver the heart medicine to Goku and warn him of the upcoming android threat, Bulma says that Trunks is just about as powerful as Gohan was before he died 3 years ago.

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Now here is where there is a slight difference between the anime and the manga. In the anime special, Bulma says this prior to Trunks going to attack the androids while they were destroying a city. After somehow surviving #18’s powerful Masenko-like Ki attack, Trunks was stuck in bed healing for weeks practically near death from that fierce battle. Going off of that fact, we can figure that the Zenkai boost he got from that recovery was huge!

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Similar to how Gohan got a Zenkai boost after losing an arm and nearly his life saving Trunks from the androids in the amusement park, Trunks’ power must have increased dramatically.

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However, this battle never took place in the manga but when it comes to his arrival in the past the description of his power is the same. While the Z-Fighters were stunned from the powers they were sensing from where Frieza landed his ship with his father King Cold, Gohan was quick to comment that the power he felt (while Trunks was transforming into a Super Saiyan) was the same that he felt from Goku on Namek.

What does this mean?

Super Saiyan Future Trunks was pretty much equal in terms of power to Super Saiyan Goku when he first transformed on Namek while fighting Frieza.

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Now the official power level listing of Goku as a Super Saiyan was 150,000,000 so Trunks was around that level of power or practically 150 million on the nose.

What does this say about Future Gohan?

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Well Future Bulma said that Trunks was ABOUT as powerful as Gohan was before he got killed by the androids. This could mean that Future Gohan was slightly more powerful than Frieza Saga Super Saiyan Goku.

This is not surprising considering the Zenkai boost he received from that battle in the amusement park was probably very huge.

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Keep in mind that Goku was probably a lot more powerful when he arrived on earth from his 1 ½ years of being in space. After the battle on Namek, Goku was pretty banged up and landed on Yardrat. We can assume that he gained a Zenkai boost raising his base power of 3,000,000 and Super Saiyan power of 150,000,000 to new heights.

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On top of that, he trained on Yardrat in order to learn how to turn Super Saiyan at will while also picking up the Instant Transmission technique. So the neck and neck power levels of Super Saiyan Goku on Namek and Future Trunks was now leaning in Goku’s favor.

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I also think that Goku was more powerful than Future Gohan, but that is debatable. In any case, we can place Future Gohan in-between Future Trunks when he first arrives in the past and Goku post-Yardrat training/Zenkai boost.

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Keep in mind that the #17 and #18 of the future were stated by Trunks to be much weaker than the androids of the present. That is because in his future timeline, he could hold his own against them. However in the present, he was knocked out in two blows from the androids.

Since Future Gohan was holding his own against the androids before being killed that says a lot. Of course, we arrive at another difference between the manga and anime in regards to how Gohan was killed and the power of the androids.

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#17 says in their last encounter he wasn’t even using half of his power. In the battle where Gohan was killed, it was assumed that the android(s) were at maximum or full power because #17 said he wasn’t going to hold back this time.

Alright in the manga, it was only #17 who was shown to attack Gohan (who had a stunned look on his face when #17 said he wasn’t using his full power in their last fight) and in the next panel he was already dead when Trunks arrived on the scene.

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In the anime, not only does Gohan fight both androids but he holds his own for quite awhile even with only ONE of his arms! When I first saw this fight and how well Gohan was doing, I honestly thought he was going to win. It wasn’t until the androids ganged up on him did he start to become overwhelmed and was eventually killed.

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Also looking back at his battle with #17 at the amusement park in the anime special, Gohan was on the receiving end of attack for quite some time but eventually he fought back and gained the upper hand. It wasn’t until #18 stepped in did he start to get beaten.

Depending on how you want to look at the amusement park and the city battle, in terms of whether or not #17 was using half or his full power it seems like Gohan had the power to match and defeat at least one of the androids.

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I really believe that if Gohan fought 1-on-1 with #17 or #18 he would be able to destroy them. The reason I say this is because Gohan is a warrior, but the androids were normal humans who were transformed into cyborgs by Dr. Gero. Due to his skill and experience, Gohan would be more efficient in tactical strategy and technique in order to overcome his possibly more powerful foes. This is evident in the fact that he could somehow escape each encounter with the androids to live to fight another day.

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Future Gohan is much more brutal and vicious than his present-self in terms of combat because let’s face it, the present Gohan lived in a generally peaceful timeline but in the future he lived in Hell. All of that battling and violence right before his eyes truly showed him the darker side of existence and the kind-hearted Gohan he was as a child was gone.

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I’m not saying he still isn’t the sweet and understanding Gohan that he is in the present, but he isn’t cowardly and timid. Bulma says that Gohan is just like Goku who was powerful but gentle at the same time.

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In case anyone wanted to make the comparison, it is true that Vegeta in the present was more of a warrior than #18 but was still beaten to a pulp. However, keep in mind that despite #18 being more powerful it was Vegeta who was fighting sloppy and letting pride blind his skill that ultimately led to his defeat.

Future Gohan knows how to keep his cool in combat against the prideful #17 which causes the android to take some embarrassing attacks that Gohan lands on him when he is off guard allowing him to take control of the battle.

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With all of that being said, I believe that Future Gohan at the time of his final battle and demise was probably around the power of Goku when he arrived back on earth from his training on Yardart. Keep in mind that the difference of the timelines began when Goku arrived back on earth and killed Mecha Frieza and King Cold in Trunks’ timeline. Also remember that this Goku was equal in power to the one we see in the Trunks Saga.

Do you agree? If not, how powerful do you think Future Gohan was?