Tyler Perry’s The Haves and the Have Nots Theory: Is Melissa Damaged Goods?

 

By Jeremy Carden

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After that jaw-dropping midseason finale, the question that a lot of HAHN fans are asking is whether or not Melissa is still a valuable part of Veronica’s plan.

With her father’s passing (as a result of Veronica not supplying him with his essential medication), Melissa was seen sobbing in a pool of her blood.

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We will not know until the new episodes as to whether or not the baby is alright.

If the baby is not going to be born in a healthy state, will Veronica toss Melissa in the streets in order to start over?

Will she simply find another young woman that she can manipulate in order to get Jeffrey to live the life that she wants him to?

I go into more detail in the video below:

 

We all know that Veronica is a piece of work, but this is just too much! I cannot help but feel sorry for Melissa despite everything that she has done up to this point.

Yes, she has been a pawn in Veronica’s sick game. However, she has been mistreated by her ‘buyer’ (Veronica) for the sake of giving her a grandson.

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Sadly, she has done all of this for her family. I cannot wait to see what will happen with her character in the next few months.

As always, please feel free to share your thoughts in the comment section below in regards to what you think will happen next!

Be sure to keep up with my social media pages because I have more HAHN videos on the way!

Twitter: https://twitter.com/jccarden

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Tyler Perry’s The Haves and the Have Nots Theory: Two Funerals Review/Season 3 Predictions

By Jeremy Carden

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The latest episode of the HAHN did not disappoint as the show gained high ratings on Tuesday night! I gave “Two Funerals” a 10/10 for being much better than I had originally hoped.

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In my last blog, I went over my thoughts on how the episode would most likely only cover events during the night of the Harrington Mansion burning down. Thankfully, the show ran at a good pace. At the beginning of Season 3, fans were disappointed and some were slightly annoyed at the very slow pacing of the story’s plot.

After fans discovered that Amanda was dead in her bedroom, the story had a mixture of great pacing along with fantastic performances by the characters.

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The episodes that focused on the main characters being held in the Cryer Mansion while the police were investigating were some of my favorites of the entire series. Just seeing the character interaction in a high-tension situation was fantastic!

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It reminded me of the movie 12 Angry Men because multiple characters were being confined to an enclosed area and their performances was based off of the interactions with each other.

Everyone was literally at another person’s throat: David vs. Veronica, Katherine vs. Jim, Veronica vs. Celine, Katherine vs. Celine, Wyatt (drunk) vs. Jim, etc.

From that point on, the ratings increased with each episode. Two Funerals concluded the events of the night of the fire, and did an excellent job of setting up the morning of Amanda’s funeral.

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We got to see everyone preparing for the funeral, but also dealing with other burdens that were plaguing their minds. For example, you have David obviously shaken by his wife nearly killing him. In the picture above, it appears this is David looking suspiciously at someone during the next episode when everyone comes to the Cryer Mansion after Amanda’s funeral. My guess is that he is looking over at either Candace or Melissa appearing at the house.

The opening scene was hilarious from Veronica’s fierce dialogue coming from a calm demeanor to Wyatt’s upfront comments about Maggie’s breast. When he made the comment about her having a nice rack, I was thinking that he should enjoy them why they last because where he is going there are not any racks!

Jim finally reached his breaking point after being pulled from both ends with Celine’s constant nagging over being fired and breaking their agreement. However, Wyatt’s backtalk finally got the better of him when Jim dragged his son down the stairs, and beat the tar right out of him!

When I saw that beat down there was nothing more that I could say other than…

I think it is safe to say that even though Wyatt is on the verge of telling Hanna that he was the one to hit Benny (which Hanna knew when he arrived home high saying that he hit a man, but eventually thought she was wrong after Norman Hewens took the fall for Wyatt), Veronica’s slow descent down the stairs may hint that the Ice Queen will freeze Wyatt in place before he can spill the beans.

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Honestly, it would be a real shame for Wyatt to tell the truth. Why? I know that sounds completely wrong because it means that Wyatt will keep being dishonest about his actions, but it will do nothing but wreck the growing relationship between Hanna and Jim.

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The scene of Hanna arriving to check on the Cryers as they prepare for the funeral was my favorite moment of the episode. Jim’s kind words to Hanna was refreshing to see and it shows that he is not completely the arrogant bastard that he has shown himself to be since Season 1. He has some good in him, but it has taken a long time for a little bit of it to come out.

It goes back to when Hanna tells him to shut up in the name of Jesus, and walks out of Amanda’s room. She hears Jim breakdown, and goes back to comfort him. Fans were a bit annoyed for Jim walking off after Hanna says that God forgives him for his actions even if no one else will. I mean he tells her off, and kicks her out of his house. She had every reason to not go back in order to comfort him.

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Displaying a WWJD attitude, she explains why she was having Amanda’s room cleaned; to spare the Cryers of the bloody scene that she saw when she discovered Amanda was dead.

Her heart was in the right place, and she was showing kindness to a man (Jim) that has never been kind to her at all. Season 2 displayed Jim not showing any remorse when it came to covering up his tracks even if it meant lying to those who are close to him or work for him. He attempted to make Hanna think that she was delusional for what she heard Wyatt saying about hitting someone, and chewed her out on multiple occasions during the season.

The reasons fans were so angry at Jim was because despite Hanna’s genuine concern for the well being of the Cryer family (and especially Jim’s soul in that moment), he walks off without saying so much as “Thank you.”

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In my opinion, I am glad that he said nothing to Hanna after she mentioned God’s forgiveness. I found it ironic because he said multiple times to Hanna that when she finds out the truth of Wyatt being innocent for the hit-and-run charges, he would not forgive her for what she did even (telling the D.A. that Wyatt was the murderer and he was arrested) if Katherine did.

Did you notice the way that Jim slowly picked himself up, looked at Hanna and simply walked down the hallway?

To me it showed that Hanna’s words in the moment did not have a solid effect on Jim, but it planted a seed in his heart. Jim may have not converted to a believer in 5 seconds, but I feel that he now has something to think about. Do not get me wrong, he still has some serious character flaws. I just think that in the end, Hanna’s words will do him some good.

Do you think that Jim would have said anything nice to Hanna if her words did not affect him in some way?

Sometimes when it comes to explaining God’s love and mercy to others, a ripple effect will start a change in their spirit. That is why I am a bit concerned about Wyatt telling Hanna the truth, and then it would truly do some damage to Jim’s progress of being kinder to Hanna. Yes, I know that sounds like a contradicting statement, but that is just how I feel about it.

Another thing that I noticed during the kitchen scene was the exchange between Celine and Wyatt. I would say Celine, Wyatt AND Jim, but he was literally stuck in the middle of the heated dialogue between his former mistress and his troubled son.

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Some fans are speculating the Celine is Wyatt’s mother. Honestly, I can see some evidence behind this theory. Celine was talking as if she was a mother that was feeling disrespected by her child, and was looking for the father (Jim) to do something about it. The tone in her voice when she asked Jim if he was going to allow Wyatt to disrespect her like that was very similar to a motherly tone.

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I wrote a blog awhile ago on the subject on who were the parents of Wyatt and Amanda. There seems to be reasonable doubt that Jim AND Katherine are their parents.

At first, I thought that Amanda was the daughter of Celine. However, we learned that Jim was off with Celine when Katherine went into labor with Amanda. Not to mention Jim even says that Wyatt has the blood of Katherine’s father running through his veins which might explain his alcohol addiction.

Either way, this “deal” that the Cryers made with Celine is obviously bigger than we realize if Celine continues to pester Jim about it.

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The main reason I do want this “theory” of Celine being Wyatt’s mother to be completely wrong is because of the scene of him trying to seduce her after she finds him passed out on the couch. This would make that scene a lot more awkward than it already was.

I know that it was all an act to make her hurt after revealing that Jim no longer cared about it, but still….

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Also, do you realize that a lot of people are going to have bruised faces at the funeral? Quincy hit Hanna, but she was able to cover her bruise with makeup. Jeffery got beat by Q, and Wyatt got beat by Jim. 

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There is not much to say about the Jeffrey and Landon scene that I have not already said before. In an earlier blog about Jeffrey’s sexuality, I predicted that he was using Landon as nothing more than a substitute for Wyatt, and a way of symbolizing his independence from his mother’s iron fist.

When Wyatt showed up, I will admit that it was an entertaining scene. I bet that Jeffrey wishes that he did not call Landon to his room because if he would have waited, Wyatt would have eventually showed up looking to stay for the night.

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Landon did make a good point about Jeffrey seemingly needing pain in his life. Despite Jeffrey not having feelings for Landon, he is potentially the best thing to ever happen to Jeffrey. Mainly because of Landon having once been in Jeffrey’s shoes and he knows how to point him in the right direction.

Another thing to mention about friendship is Jim and Katherine not hesitating to put the funeral plans on hold in order to check on David and Veronica. Sure, the women did not have a nice conversation the last time they were together. Katherine confronted Veronica about Jeffrey being gay and allowing him to live the life that he wants, but she was not hearing any of it from her depressed friend.

David had Jim’s back to comfort him after he found out the news about Amanda, and now Jim was checking on his friend after the fire. The look on David’s face was almost as if he was going to pop Jim in the face if he said “I’ll handle it.” I was rolling!

I was shocked to see that it was about to hit the fan after it was revealed that Wyatt spilled the beans to the D.A. about the hit-and-run cover up along with Veronica having the car. Things will not go over well after the funeral.

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Considering that Veronica now has Wyatt as her “I’ll handle it” target, I am worried about him. She had sent a killer to beat up her son for being gay, almost killed her husband in a fire after accusing him of an affair, and now has Wyatt in danger of prison (or worse) for telling on her.

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Moving to the Young family, the tension was high with the exchange between Hanna and Candace. It was hilarious when she burst open the door and confronted Oscar because she had enough of her daughter’s trifling ways.

For once, I think that Candace was clearly hurt. Oscar comforting her was truly a sight to see, and I enjoyed seeing that. I am still holding onto my theory that he is not what he appears to be, and is possibly working for David in a way of striking a blow to “the Criminal” as he calls her.

It was great to see Candace actually have a person that was generally concerned for her well being, and that would make Oscar’s “betrayal” (if he is working for someone else) that much worse.

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Remember that Byron was working for Jim to spy on Hanna, but eventually had a chance of heart. Not to mention the detective working for David to spy on Candace in Season 1, but put Benny in jail instead of drug possession. He told Tony in not so many words that his son was innocent, and he had been railroaded into prison.

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I don’t know about this show because in terms of people who are supposed to be spies and detectives, they have a way of slightly defecting to the “good side” after getting to know the people they are supposed to be spying on.

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Honestly, I think it is safe to say that we have not seen the last of Oscar.

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Next up, Hanna confronts Benny on his whereabouts that night. He reveals that he wrecked his mother’s new car that he bought for $500 from Erica (who has not been mentioned for a couple of episodes), and beat up Quincy.

This landed him in jail, and Veronica managed to get him out. Finally, Hanna reveals that Benny now has David’s vehicle, and Benny knows that he has to give it back.

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She pleads with him to let this go because she has nearly lost him twice (once when he was in jail in Season 1, and last season when he was in a coma). He tells her not to worry about it and goes to bed.

The next morning, he calls the police station to discover that Quincy’s bail is set for $5,000. He then asks Candace for the cash (without telling her why), and I think we all know what his plan is. If my theory is correct, Benny wants Q out of prison to finish the job he started. Killing him would be the only way he can make sure that he would never come back to haunt his family again. Another thought is that he wants Q to reveal where his nephew is.

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Hanna knows that Candace showing up to Amanda’s funeral will do nothing but cause trouble, but she plans on coming anyway.

Now this leads to the preview of the next episode, and my theories on what will happen for the rest of the season (or the next few episodes).

Considering that Jim and Katherine will be pointing fingers at Candace for Amanda’s death, I do not think that going to the Cryer Mansion is a wise move by Candace.

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In the preview for the funeral, we see both Hanna and Wyatt confronting Candace for showing up when she is not exactly welcomed there considering all that she has done. Katherine then invites her to a gathering at her house after the funeral.

Seems familiar does it?

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I mean we see Candace getting what she wants, and then shows up to do more damage than she had done before. In the past, she got the $100k and a new car, but plans on ruining Jim’s campaign by showing up at his office on multiple occasions. Then she is politely invited to the park to meet with him that night, and gets abducted by the Malones.

Now she has $7.4 million and a good amount of blackmail material (the videos and photos when he was in the “War Room”) against Jim. To “pay her respects” she plans on going to the funeral, and it appears that Katherine politely asks her to come to the house.

Can anyone say trap? I mean Katherine is DONE, and she is not the type to just sit on the sidelines anymore. Back near the end of Season 1 after almost losing her life to cancer, she tells Hanna that she is going to sit back and watch everything fall apart. She gets a bit more active in Season 2 after Wyatt is on the verge of going to jail, but if you think about it she did not do much. Instead she relied on Jim to handle the situation, and he eventually does (until Wyatt decides to reveal the truth).

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I think that she will give Jim the spark he needs to get back into the game. Remember that he told David about how Candace is to blame for Amanda’s death. David reminds him to pull himself together, but Jim says that after Amanda is laid to rest; he is going after Candace.

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Safe to say that if Jim AND Katherine combine their hatred and ruthlessness; Candy Cane is going to be in trouble! I dare say that the Cryers will be worse than Warlock and his crew plus the Malones put together!

One way that I can think of them tricking Candace is by pretending to have her come to the reading of the will, or something of that nature. Candy Cane likes to be in control, and she even tells Jim this when she has him abducted. With her blackmail material, she must feel like she is on top of the world right now. However, it will be her cockiness that will be her downfall.

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I think there is a good setup for her being kidnapped, abducted or held hostage by the Cryers. Jeffrey has warned her on more than one occasion that the Cryers are ruthless, and if they point the finger at her to blame; she will be in trouble. Not to mention Benny is looking for the $5k to get Q out of prison, and Oscar is hopeful that he will see her again.

If the Cryers do trap her, she will agree to her demands and be released. Why do I say that?

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Based on clips in a couple of previews, we see that she goes to visit Quincy in prison. Not to mention she has to take the test to pass the bar exam in order to get the interview at the firm David arranged for her.

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Professor Cannon shows up to the funeral, and Candace may confront him there about getting her a new letter saying she can go straight to the bar exam. I could have sworn up and down that he killed Amanda or she killed him at the end of Season 2.

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We then see Candace on a fancy jet plane, and she is living large! She is clearly wearing different outfits from the funeral, and perhaps the plane is a setup by the Cryers in order to trap her.

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Basically, it seems that Candace is trying to make a better life for herself and her son. She is clearly going about it the wrong way, but her heart is the in right place. I’m not trying to justify her actions, but they say the way to hell is paved with good intentions. The question of the show now is whether or not she will get her son back.

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There is a white truck that is being flipped in midair during a shot in a preview, but I cannot think of who is the owner of the vehicle. Remember that almost everyone in the show has a black vehicle for some reason!

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Melissa’s return has a lot of fans in an uproar because what could she possibly want at this point from Jeffrey. It could be that she wants Veronica to hold up to her end of the deal by taking care of the man in the hospital who appears to be her father. The verdict on whether or not she is indeed pregnant has yet to be decided, but I am interested in how things will unfold.

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We did see Wyatt in jail during the trailer, but whether or not he will stay there has yet to be determined. It could be that he will not be arrested because his confessional to Jennifer could be ruled out as nothing more than depression for his sister’s death, and he had been drinking A LOT. If this is the case, I figure that Veronica will plot to get him put into jail just to give him a “taste” of what it is like. That is what she will confront Jim about in the next episode.

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Finally, I will get to the part that everyone wants to get my thoughts on; Benny and Veronica! I was going to give this subject its own blog because it is a lot of information to go over, and I am sure this blog is already long enough. However, a lot of my faithful readers wanted me to throw this into this post.

I thought it was absolutely hilarious that Veronica got as giddy as a schoolgirl when she saw Benny was calling her while she was talking to Katherine. The background music that played during that scene was perfect! If I am not mistaken, it was the same tune that was playing when she made out with him in the car.

Props to the people behind the scenes who conduct the music for the show because they always get the perfect music to go with the scene that is going on at the time!

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I find it interesting that the two of the most unstable characters on the show are going to have an affair. Considering that Benny is most likely suffering from the unmentioned side effects of coming off of life support, and Veronica is either taking some kind of medication (or drugs along with drinking); this is one couple made by pure craziness.

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You could argue that Veronica is simply getting back at David’s “affair” with one of her own. It gets awkward when Hanna walks in on the two in the next couple of episodes. Now Benny looks highly hypocritical because he was quick to schold Hanna for jumping in bed with Michael. However, now he is having an affair with a married woman! How’s that for the pot calling the kettle black?

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Not to mention that Maggie is going to get photos of the two from the detective that she hired to have Veronica followed. In the next episode, she even confronts David about the fire possibly being arson.

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I think it is safe to assume that Veronica is the new “Amanda.” Thinking about how the she is like Amanda because both are mentally unstable, and have become a danger to themselves (and everyone else around them).

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How do I think that this affair will hold up?

*In the picture above, my guess is that Candace won the auction for the towing company that Benny and Mitch wanted to purchase. Benny either works or owns the company, and now Veronica is there for them to continue with the affair. My guess is that Warlock is the owner because Candace wanted him to get a legit job, and War thinks bigger than Benny. So, it would make sense if War owned the place, and Benny works there for him. It might fall apart if the Black Sedan is AT the towing company, and Benny finds out it is the car that hit him because it belongs to her son, and was driven by Wyatt*

Not so well because I think that it will fall apart once Benny finds out that Veronica (persuaded by Maggie) was the one to get Q out of prison to begin with.

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Remember that he has broken into Hanna’s house before, and came back with his son to taunt her. He also bruised her face, and in the past beat up his sister nearly to death. Now it appears that Benny wants to get him out of jail in order to finish the job he started.

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Do you realize how pissed off he will be if he ever finds out that Veronica was the one to have him released from prison?

How about if Q finds out that Benny is having an affair with her so easily, but he could not even get a kiss (willingly) out of her! He even tried raping her, but that did not work for obvious reasons.

Wow, Q has certainly been receiving the short end of the stick in his situation…

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In any case, I think that this season has a lot of ground to cover, and I hope that it continues to go strong in the new episodes.

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Where do you think the series will go next? What surprises will occur in the upcoming episodes? What did Veronica mean when she said “two funerals?” Personally, I think she was referring to the funeral of Amanda AND her marriage to David.

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Speaking of David, what about his phone calls to Veronica’s mother? When will she show up to hopefully put her daughter straight?!?!

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Do you think the Cryers will trap Candace, and get back their $7.4 million? Will Candace ever be reunited with her son?

The questions will continue to come, but we will have to continue watching in order to find out what will happen next!

Like what you read? Then be sure to follow me on Twitter (@jccarden) because on Tuesday nights at 9 PM I’m on there tweeting during each new episode of the #HAHN! Also follow my blog so you can enjoy my new articles when they are posted. 

Dragon Ball Super: Is Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan More Powerful Than Super Saiyan 4?

By Jeremy Carden

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Since Battle of Gods, DBZ fans have been debating about Super Saiyan 4 vs. Super Saiyan God.

With the new Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan transformation revealed, the debated has sparked even more controversy. Despite the ongoing debate between fans, there has been no clear definitive answer as to which form is superior.

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Most fans are quick to say that it does not matter how powerful Super Saiyan 4 is because GT is not canon. Not to mention with Dragon Ball Super on the horizon, it is set to “erase” GT from existence. I will get into my thoughts on that in another blog, but for now the focus will be on which Super Saiyan transformation is superior.

It has never been fully established how powerful these new forms are when compared to the standard Super Saiyan forms. Which forms am I referring to?

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These 3 below:

  • Super Saiyan God
  • Saiyan beyond God
  • Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan

Here is what we do know about the standard Super Saiyan forms:

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  • Super Saiyan 1 is 50 times more powerful than base form
  • Super Saiyan 2 is twice the power of a Super Saiyan (100 times base form)
  • Super Saiyan 3 is four times more powerful than Super Saiyan 2 (400 times base form)
  • Super Saiyan 4 is ten times more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 (4000 times base form)

The missing factor in all of this involves how much more powerful Super Saiyan God is when compared to Super Saiyan 3.

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We know that Beerus took out Super Saiyan 3 Goku with a simple flick to the forehead, and a well placed karate chop to a pressure point on Goku’s neck.

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However, Beerus tried this same karate chop on Super Saiyan God Goku, but it failed to work! This shows us that Goku’s power has increased to astounding new heights!

It was one of those blink-and-you-miss moments during the beginning of their battle.

In the end, 70% Beerus was able to defeat 80% Super Saiyan God Goku; remember that Goku never fought at 100% with his new power.

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Saiyan beyond God is a “form” that Goku and Vegeta reach after the events of Battle of Gods, and during their time as students under Whis.

A Saiyan prodigy who transforms into Super Saiyan God will revert back to base form after the Super Saiyan God form time limit runs out. However, they will absorb the power of the Super Saiyan God into their base form. This will result in the Saiyan becoming a Saiyan beyond God.

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It reminds me of Ultimate Gohan because in his “base form” he has far more power than he ever did as a Super Saiyan 1 or 2. The reason I say “base form” is because as Ultimate Gohan his outer appearance barely changes from his regular appearance.

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When it comes to Saiyan beyond God vs. the appearance of base Goku or Vegeta, the only change is the color of their aura. It becomes more of a milky white color when compared to their standard base form aura.

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When a Saiyan beyond God has access to the Super Saiyan transformation…they can become a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan!

It is unknown how much more powerful this makes a Saiyan beyond God, or how much more powerful this form is when compared to a Super Saiyan God.

Most fans are quick to assume that just like the standard Super Saiyan transformation; it increases a Saiyan’s power 50 times over the power of his base power. In this case, “base power” is considered Saiyan beyond God.

Wait, does that mean a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is 50 times the power of a Super Saiyan God?

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Saiyan beyond God is basically a Saiyan in base form that has mastered or absorbed the power of a Super Saiyan God into their body right?

Although it is not official, I can see why most fans would assume that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is superior to a Super Saiyan God by 50 times.

However, the Super Saiyan multiplier scale seems to conflict with Akira Toriyama’s own power scale for the gods.

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He stated his own personal belief on the power differences between the Battle of Gods characters below:

Super Saiyan God Goku is about a “6”, Beerus a “10” and Whis about a “15”.

To me this never made much sense, and please do not think that I am debating the word of the official creator of Dragon Ball Z. However, the key phrase here is that these levels are Akira’s “own personal belief.”

With that being said, I think it is fair for me (or any other fan for that matter) to have my own personal belief as well.

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As I mentioned before, Beerus was only fighting at 70% power when he battled Super Saiyan God Goku. The Saiyan never truly fought at 100% with his new godly power. His time limit in the form ran out before he could kick things up to full power.

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True, Beerus mentioned that Goku absorbed the power of the Super Saiyan God into his base form, and from there transformed into a Super Saiyan. That explained why he was able to fight on par with Beerus for some time, and he did not even notice that his Super Saiyan God fuel had burned out until Beerus mentioned it to him.

Some may argue that Goku fought Beerus as a Saiyan beyond God after his Super Saiyan God power fizzled out like a flat can of soda.

Others might mention that Goku fighting Beerus as a Full Power Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God was a potential foreshadowing of the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan!

Both are valid points, and I think they are worth mentioning.

Now here is where my opinion is slightly different than Akira’s own personal belief. If my math is mistaken, please feel free to let me know in the comment section below (and be respectful because we are all human, and mistakes can be made).

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If Beerus (at 70% power) was fighting Super Saiyan God Goku (at 80% power), wouldn’t this imply that Beerus is at best only 10% more powerful than Super Saiyan God Goku?

That conflicts with Goku being a 6, and Beerus being a 10. The gap of 4 seems to imply much more than a 10% difference in strength. My opinion is that Akira did not write Battle of Gods with the intention of having an exact measuring system of power levels.

Remember that they were only introduced into the series so the characters and fans would come to realize how useless they really were.

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Considering that Trunks at level 5 was the last power level scanned in the series, I am sure that we can assume that in the interview, Akira did not have an exact figure in his head regarding the power of the gods. We just know that Whis is more powerful than Beerus, and Beerus is more powerful than Goku.

To me, Full Power Super Saiyan Goku (with the power of Super Saiyan God) was not as powerful as he was when he was a Super Saiyan God. I say this because Goku was experiencing the power for the very first time, and he did not have full mastery over his new power yet.

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After training with Whis, I suspect the Saiyan beyond God version of Goku is superior to even his Super Saiyan God form from Battle of Gods (to a certain extent).

We then find out that the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is basically a Super Saiyan fighting with the power of a Super Saiyan God.

Wait, does that mean Goku could become a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 2 and a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3?

I am not going to go down that rabbit hole because we could be going back and forth about this for an eternity. If Goku could indeed reach those forms then as a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3, his power would be 400 times the power of a Saiyan beyond God!

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Now to get back on track, Saiyan beyond God is superior to Super Saiyan God in the sense that this is a base form Saiyan that has mastered the Super Saiyan God transformation.

What does this mean?

It means that base form Goku and Vegeta can fight with the power of a Super Saiyan God, but the time limit of the godly form is no longer a handicap.

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Again a comparison can be made to Ultimate Gohan vs. Super Saiyan 3. Gohan is allowed to fight with his maximum power without his Ki supply being quickly drained like a Super Saiyan 3.

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is the next stage of a superior Super Saiyan God because it also allows a Saiyan to fight with the power of the Super Saiyan God, but without any sort of time limit handicap.

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I know we have covered a lot of ground so far, but let’s do a quick recap just to be sure we are on the same page.

Saiyan beyond God is the base form of a Saiyan that has now mastered and retained the power of a Super Saiyan God. Any Saiyan that is capable of becoming a Super Saiyan can take their Saiyan beyond God stage to the level of a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

Both of these incarnations of a Saiyan can be considered superior in power to the Super Saiyan God transformation.

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Moving onto GT, although it was never officially stated; Goku in base form is said to be as powerful as he was at the Super Saiyan 3 level in DBZ (specifically in the Buu Saga, not the 10 year gap between the death of Kid Buu and the departure of Goku with Uub).

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This made me cringe as a child when I heard this because I was difficult to believe that Kid Goku (GT) was on par with the Super Saiyan 3 that we had seen fighting with Kid Buu!

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However, most fans associate Goku’s power to Super Saiyan 3 because of his statement to General Rilldo about the Machine Mutant being more powerful than even Majin Buu.

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Goku actually fights on par (and even has the upper hand for a good portion of the fight) with Rilldo, and that is why most fans say he was at the power of a Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku. It is also worth mentioning that this is in reference to Rilldo’s first form, and not his other 2 transformation that make Goku power up to Super Saiyan 1 which makes him 50 times more powerful than before.

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Things can get extremely complicated when thinking about a base form Goku being on par with his Super Saiyan 3 form from DBZ.

Think of it this way:

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Kid Goku (GT) in base form = Super Saiyan 3 Goku from Buu Saga.

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This would mean GT Goku is 400 times the power of base power Goku from the Buu Saga!

What does this mean in terms of the Super Saiyan multipliers when applied to GT Goku?

  • Super Saiyan 1 is 50 times base power
  • Super Saiyan 2 is twice the power of Super Saiyan 1
  • Super Saiyan 3 is four times the power of Super Saiyan 2
  • Super Saiyan 4 is ten times the power of Super Saiyan 3

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Meaning that Super Saiyan 4 Goku in GT is 4,000 times the power of Super Saiyan 3 Goku from the Buu Saga!

Yes, I find this mind blowing as well because it all goes back to what Vegeta from the Team Four Star Abridged series of DBZ said about power levels:

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Alright, at this point the question arises as to which form of Goku would come out on top if Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan met Super Saiyan 4.

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I am willing to bet that in terms of power alone…the winner would be Super Saiyan 4.

Hear me out on this:

We know that Super Saiyan God is more powerful than Super Saiyan 3, but we do not know by how much. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is speculated (and keep in mind that it is not official) to be 50 times the power of a Saiyan beyond God, and this “form” is literally a base form Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God.

Fans speculate Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan to be 50 times the power of a Super Saiyan God.

The reason I feel that Super Saiyan 4 Goku is more powerful is simply because a base form Goku that is equal in power to a Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku is just insane to think about because he gets a 4,000 times power increase at Super Saiyan 4.

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I will say that we do know Saiyan beyond God Goku is more powerful than GT base form Goku.

Why?

It has been said many times that Saiyan beyond Goku is basically Super Saiyan God Goku (just without the drastic change in appearance), and that would mean his power is much higher than Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

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However, if Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is indeed only 50 times the power of Saiyan beyond God (or Super Saiyan God), I feel that it goes without saying that a 50-fold power increase would not be able to matchup to a Super Saiyan 4 GT Goku.

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Super Saiyan GT Goku alone is already 50 times the power of Super Saiyan 3 DBZ Goku, which increases to 100 times as a Super Saiyan 2, and 400 times as a Super Saiyan 3…

I do not think that Super Saiyan God is that much of a power-up when compared to Super Saiyan 3.

If Goku were to fully master his training under Whis in order to become a perfect warrior, he would have an advantage over Super Saiyan 4 Goku.

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Remember that Whis pointed out Goku’s main flaw as being too relaxed in battle, and that leaves him open to attack. This can lead to his defeat by a weaker opponent, and we saw this happen when Sorbet blasted him through the heart with his ring laser!

Can you imagine a Goku that was flawless in combat? True, Super Saiyan 4 is more powerful, but that version of Goku would not have the training of Whis to back him up!

I am keeping “GT Goku” and “Battle of Gods Goku” as separate entities during this fight.

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Some fans are probably reading this and would consider the fight to be over in a matter of seconds! I mean Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku would just need to cut off Super Saiyan 4 Goku’s tail!

Yes, I know that would be a way of ending the fight very quickly. However, who would want to see that as the ending of such an epic battle?

I know that I would not want this battle between Super Saiyans to be over before it begun due to Super Saiyan 4 Goku’s main handicap.

Something else that needs to be taken into consideration is that Super Saiyan 4 and Super Saiyan God/Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan are completely different levels. I mean Super Saiyan 4 seems to fit into the same spectrum as the first 3 Super Saiyan levels.

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However, Super Saiyan God is in a league of its own. It is a being of such divine energy and power that it cannot be sensed by “lesser beings” through the use of a Ki signature. I do not think that this means Super Saiyan God is automatically more powerful than Super Saiyan 4 (because in GT, it is mentioned on more than one occasion by other characters that Goku’s Ki is incredible in the form; meaning “lesser beings” can sense his presence), but it means that it is in a different realm of power.

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Super Saiyan God is a powerful form, but until we are officially given the stats on how much more powerful it is than a Super Saiyan 3; this debate will most likely continue on.

Which form do you think is more powerful?

Like what you read? Be sure to follow my blog, and you will be able to read my past blogs about the Dragon Ball series! Also LIKE my Dragon Ball Z Facebook page: Vegeta Is The Best. On that page, I discuss many other Dragon Ball related topics and theories about the franchise! Be sure to pass it along to your friends, and I look forward to your thoughts in the comment section below. 

Tyler Perry’s The Haves and the Have Nots Theory: Where Is Professor Cannon?

By Jeremy Carden

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Aside from the main characters in this series, there is one particular person who was literally stabbed in the back and hasn’t been seen since.

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You’ve got it! I’m talking about the law school professor who raped Amanda and is now on the receiving end of her vengeance: Professor Cannon!

We haven’t seen him around since he jogged off in terror and with nothing left behind but a pool of his own blood from that knife jammed in his backside!

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My mother always jokes around that we haven’t seen him again because he is probably still running with that blade in him or he died because he bled to death (kind of a sick joke but the way my mom says it is funny).

At first, you might assume that Amanda has forgotten about the professor and isn’t going to kill him anymore. However, remember that when she bought the gun from the pawn shop she asked “Can this go through a professor?

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Then at the dinner table with Quincy, she says that she wants to kill someone. He asks who and she says her mother, father and brother. That is strange because she did not mention the professor.

It could be due to her mental instability that her rage has somewhat shifted to be fully focused on her family dying. That wouldn’t surprise me considering Jim has brought her back into their home; a place full of the people she plans on killing (minus the professor)!

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It seems to me that Amanda’s rage is directed at a particular person or group of people whenever she feels wronged. The professor raped her and that kind of started this whole ordeal which led to her only wanting revenge on him.

Then her parents refused to give her the $12 million inheritance and she feels ignored because they seem to only pay attention to Wyatt and that seriously pushed her over the edge (along with her serious lack of medication).

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What really surprised me was Jim saying that the whole family will go up to the mountains within the next couple of days to get away from everything for a mini-vacation. Yeah Jim that’s real smart, not only do you let your psycho daughter trick you into bringing her gun home with her but now you want to take the family to a secluded place in the mountains for her to kill everyone!

Kind of ironic that the Malones “killed” Candace in the middle of nowhere with no witnesses and now Amanda might do the same to her family if they go to the mountains!

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Wyatt then states that he only wants to go with Jim so we shall see if that is how it goes down or if the entire family comes along for the ride.

In any case, if we don’t see the professor anytime soon the next time he might appear will be either in the hospital from the stab wound or when it is revealed the Amanda is pregnant and everyone will be asking who did this to her.

Let’s say that his wife or someone asks how he got the stab wound, he’d have to come up with a story that he was robbed in the park or something like that. Think about it, if he reveals that Amanda has been stalking him and threatening his family as well as himself then he reveals that he was the one who raped her.

Some fans speculate that by this time he has grabbed his family and moved somewhere so Amanda could not find him. I doubt that because it would be a major cop out in terms of the script for the show to just write out a character like that. Especially, since he was the one who had this major impact in Amanda’s character development.

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Do you think the professor will appear again? Will Amanda get locked away to receive the psychological help that she desperately needs before she gets another chance to kill him? Will the professor eventually be revealed to be the one to rape her and pay for his crimes? Will Amanda’s focus of rage be fully focused on her family instead of the professor?

Like what you read? Then be sure to follow me on Twitter (@jccarden) because on Tuesday nights at 9 PM I’m on there tweeting during each new episode of the #HAHN! Also follow my blog so you can enjoy my new articles when they are posted. 

 

DBGT: Why Was Uub/Majuub So Underrated?

by Jeremy Carden

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It hurts me to see Goku’s pupil and one of the most powerful characters in the DBGT series so underrated. After 10 straight years of training with Goku, Uub was equal to Goku in base form.

Now a lot of people argue that these two are as powerful as a Super Saiyan 2 or beyond. I like to keep things simple and based on my own perspective of the series; I feel that Goku (base form whether he is in his adult or kid body) and Uub are at least as powerful as a Super Saiyan 2. I do not feel that they are at a Super Saiyan 3 level of power though.

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With that being said, I think the only character aside from Super Saiyan Goku (and his other forms) that could defeat Uub would be Super Saiyan 1 or 2 Vegeta. Considering that Kid Goku (base form) was able to defeat Baby Super Saiyan Goten and Super Saiyan 2 Gohan with relative ease, I think Uub would be able to do the same.

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Remember during his battle with Baby Vegeta, Uub was able to hold his own. After blasting Baby into a wall, the Baby-infected Gohan, Goten and Trunks rush to the scene to assist. However, Baby scolds them saying that he was only testing Uub’s power and that he might be stronger than all 3 of them combined. He then blasts them saying that they are useless to him now seemingly killing them all. Keep in mind that assists in confirming my earlier statement that Uub would be able to defeat the 3 Saiyan/Human hybrids with Vegeta being the only other character aside from Goku who could defeat him.

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After fusing with Mr. Buu, I think that Majuub is at least more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. I’m basing this on the fact that Majuub put up a better fight against Baby Vegeta than Goku did. Considering that Super Saiyan 3 is 4x as powerful as a Super Saiyan 2 (Which I clock Uub’s power at), I’d say the fusion of Buu and Uub raised his power at least 4x over.

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Baby was struggling to keep up with Majuub’s attacks but he wasn’t even fazed by any of Goku’s hits saying that Goku had not gotten a bit stronger since their first battle on Earth. You could argue that it is because Goku wasn’t at 100% as a Super Saiyan 3. However, keep in mind that since his tail grew back (thanks to Old Kai) he was able to hold Super Saiyan 3 without reverting back to base form after transforming for a few seconds.

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Goku was fighting at his max but Baby was able to beat him with ease but it wasn’t until he overexerted himself was he able to deflect Majuub’s Chocolate Kamehameha. Remember before successfully pushing back Majuub’s attack, Baby’s muscles bulked up and gave him enough power to deflect Majuub’s move back at him changing him into chocolate.

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At the beginning of their fight, Baby commented on how Uub’s fighting style/techniques (despite having Goku’s “stink” on them) were probably even better than Goku’s but of course no match for him.

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Keep in mind that Uub said that as soon as he felt something strange occurring on Earth (Baby infecting people worldwide) he decided to go into the mountains and continue his training. I’m assuming that he masked his Ki to avoid Baby sensing him and placing an egg inside of his body. He must have also hid on the Capsule Corp. ship in order to get to the Tuffle Planet as well.

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So, Uub was more powerful than he was at the beginning of the series since he continued his training after leaving the Lookout.

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Looking at all of this information, I consider Majuub to have exceeded his master/mentor in terms of power. For a short period of time, Majuub was the most powerful Z-Fighter!

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At least until Goku went Super Saiyan 4 that is knocking Majuub to #2.

After being eaten by Baby it seemed that Majuub was digested and most likely dead. It was a shame since Goku was late by just a few seconds. I would have loved to see master and student team up to fight against Baby Vegeta!

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However, he “reemerged” inside of Baby or should I say Vegeta’s stomach in order to restrain the giant ape in order for Goku to get his power restored by Goten, Trunks and Gohan.

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It seemed as if Majuub had this planned all along. If he had been more powerful than Baby Vegeta then he would have just defeated him. Majuub must have planned ahead knowing that he could not win and instead opted to use a latent attack inside of Baby. This is similar to Goku’s delayed 10x Kamehameha Wave on Baby before.

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What made me mad about this scene was that instead of Goku getting his Ki restored, everyone stood around just gawking at Baby writhing in pain. It wasn’t until Kibito Kai yelled at Goku that he realized that Majuub was doing it all for him and they started powering up.

Goku promised a sparring match with Majuub after the battle with Baby was over but we never see it…

Here is where Majuub is reduced to a second rate character instead of second best (after SS4 Goku). Moving on to the World Tournament, he made it to the finals and actually thought that Mr. Satan was a powerful World Champion. He was using wrestling moves like the German Suplex and other submission holds before going in for the win. Buu showed up in his subconscious to remind Uub that Mr. Satan was the champion and if the Earthlings saw their champion defeated it would make them upset and sad.

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It seemed that Buu paralyzed Uub’s body allowing one punch from Hercule to send him out of the ring losing the match. Even when he tried to explain to Goku and the others that he did not lose the match on purpose and that it was Buu who told him to throw the match they just thought he was being modest. After seeing how happy Mr. Satan was he smiled as he was able to help out the champ.

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One a side note, Majuub’s disguise in the tournament as Papayaman was almost as ridiculous as Gohan’s Great Saiyaman days back in DBZ. I didn’t really see the point of it but oh well it was supposed to be a “filler” episode just to lead up to the Super 17 Saga but still…

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Remember at the end of DBZ, Goku told Goten and Trunks to continue their training because someday Uub would look to those two for leadership.

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In the end this was far from the truth because during the assault against the escaped villains from Hell, Majuub was the one “leading the force” to destroy all of the enemies while they were attacking cities around the globe.

He was even able to kill General Rilldo in one blast before he was able to turn Gohan completely into metal. That showed how powerful he was after fusing with Buu.

Against Super 17 he was easily defeated even with Super Saiyan Trunks and Goten along with Super Saiyan 2 Gohan and Vegeta attacking the Android.

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Now before the group transformed into their Super Saiyan forms, everyone attacked 17 which didn’t even faze the fused bot. what made me mad was that Majuub unleashed a barrage of punches and kicks that did nothing. Afterwards Majuub was huffing and puffing like he was exhausted! Just from that simple melee barrage, the most powerful Z-Fighter on Earth (Goku was in Hell) was tired?!?!?

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My guess is that because he had expended so much energy destroying all of the other villains attacking the earth he was a bit tired. I think that was part of Dr. Gero and Dr. Myuu’s plan to wear out the Z-Team before unleashing their ultimate weapon.

That sounds good in theory and honestly I like to think that is the truth rather than them rewriting Majuub to be useless compared to Vegeta or the other Super Saiyans even though he exceeds them in power…

In any case, I feel that he was far too easily defeated by Super 17 and this was before he started absorbing Ki attacks.

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Though it is uncertain whether or not Super 17 absorbed Gohan’s Kamehameha Wave and Vegeta’s Final Shine attack.

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The Shadow Dragons Saga is where I feel Majuub was extremely underrated. He was the only one able to hold off Syn Shernon while Gohan, Goten and Trunks gave their Super Saiyan power to Goku in order to restore his Super Saiyan 4 power beyond his limits.

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After grabbing Syn from behind for a choke-hold, it actually appeared to injure Syn for a second. Powering up and emitting an aura was enough to surprise Syn by how hard he was holding him until Syn got out of the hold.

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He was easily defeated by Syn after he deflected one of his most powerful Ki blasts before the dragon countered with his own blast that hit Majuub in the face sending him hurtling to the ground.

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When Goku apparently defeated Syn with a 10x Kamehameha Wave, everyone gathered together to celebrate the victory. The only problem with that was no one even mentioned that Majuub was still missing after being attacked by Syn. I mean not one person even attempted to go look for him considering he got beaten pretty badly from that one blast.

You could argue that it was because Syn reemerged before anyone could do something but still. They were more concerned with finding the other Dragonballs without even bringing Majuub up. If it wasn’t for him stalling Syn, Goku would not have been able to get the power needed to defeat the dragon in the first place.

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It wasn’t until 1 ½ episodes later did Majuub resurface after Goku and Vegeta fused into Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta. After struggling to make it back to the scene (again no one lifted a finger to help him), he suggested that he, Goten, Trunks and Gohan fuse; well of course Goten would fuse with Trunks and Gohan with Majuub. However, Gohan pointed out that they’d need to have the same power level for Fusion to work correctly and that Majuub should let his body heal first.

What I liked about that moment was it showed how much of a proactive character Majuub was. Even though he was seriously injured he thought it best to be out on the battlefield instead of just sitting around on the sidelines.

He wanted to fuse with someone in order to help out Gogeta. Even though it turned out that Gogeta was MORE than capable of taking down Omega, it would have been interesting to see 2 fused beings take on the powerful dragon. If anything perhaps the fusion of Majuub and Gohan would have convinced Gogeta to get the job done instead of playing around but it is one of those things that we will never know.

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He did see escape as hopeless after Omega launched the Negative Karma Ball because as everyone else was trying to evacuate before the blast hit, Majuub sensed that even if they tried to run away it wouldn’t matter because the entire planet would blow up if the bomb hit the ground.

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I was a little upset that he wasn’t in the group to help fight Omega with Vegeta and the others but it was because Goten told him to gather all of his villagers in Bulma’s spaceship in order to escape the planet.

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Majuub’s Candy Ray would have been able to defeat the Shadow Dragons, Baby Vegeta and maybe even Super 17 unless he absorbed the ray instead of being transformed after being hit with the attack.

Overall, I just hated to see one of the most powerful Z-Fighters reduced to nothing but a background character. Sure I know that GT pretty much made everyone who was not Goku look like Krillin or Yamcha in comparison to his power but still. I know this might be off topic but I feel that the ONLY reason Vegeta was able to go Super Saiyan 4 was just so the fans would see a Goku/Vegeta Fusion in the series! Due to that Majuub is #3…

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I mean Uub was Goku’s student and should have played a much larger role in the series. GT should have been more about the lives of Goku’s friends and sons rather than just about him. The series should have incorporated the idea of Uub being the protector of peace that Goku spent 10 years training him to be. Instead GT was an awkward attempt at mixing the action of DBZ with the more comedy driven original DB series and it just created bad result in my opinion.

Did you want to see more out of Uub/Majuub in the GT series?

Dragonball GT: Who was stronger Super Saiyan 4 Goku or Great Ape Baby?

by Jeremy Carden

This is one of the long standing debates of Dragonball GT which begs the question which one of these 2 was the most powerful.

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If you ask me the battle between Goku and Great Golden Ape Baby Vegeta is like a seesaw in that the tables kept turning to the point that it is difficult to tell which of these two was actually winning.

There were multiple factors that came into play during their fight that makes me unsure as to who was more powerful;

  1. One of the most important being the size difference between Goku and Baby after he turned into an ape
  2. Baby losing slight control over himself as the Old Kai stated
  3. Bulma turning the tide of the battle in Baby’s favor with the Blutz Wave Machine
  4. Goku’s Ki being recharged by his sons, Trunks and Pan

And the list goes on as to how the battle went back and forth when it seemed like one side had the advantage over the other. To make things a bit easier to comprehend, I’ll go over what we do know about the battle between Goku and Baby.

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Well Goku was pretty much a mindless beast as a Great Golden Ape just thrashing around the Planet Tuffle. Even when Baby tried attack him it only resulted in him being smacked around until he decided to retreat in order to reach the same kind of power. It wasn’t until Pan helped him realize who he was and what he was fighting for that Goku snapped out of his animal instincts and reached Super Saiyan 4!

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He was toying around with Baby at first letting him score melee attacks and Ki blasts which ended up doing nothing but make Goku retort that they only felt like a feather. Even a Revenge Death Ball (which was supposed to kill Goku in their first fight on Earth until Kibito Kai saved him) did absolutely nothing to Goku.

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After letting Baby get his attacks in with no success, the gloves were off and Goku mopped the floor with the Saiyan/Tuffle!

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Just when Goku was able to kill Baby Vegeta with a Kamehameha Wave that was when the tide turned and Bulma’s Blutz Wave Generator/Machine transformed Super Baby Vegeta into a Great Ape.

Now Goku was shocked that his opponent whom he was about to kill had powered up and the tide of the battle changed.

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Well if Goku had gone ahead and killed him while he had the chance then it wouldn’t have ended up this way. Even Old and Kibito Kai said that he shouldn’t be toying around with Baby…

In any case, the battle started with Baby acting like well an ape. It was basically a repeat of Baby vs. Goku as an ape with him smacking Goku around. Baby spent most of his time rampaging like an ape reigning down destruction to his own planet and killing his own followers. People were screaming in terror at the Ki blasts and Flame Breath he was using on the city.

It wasn’t until later we discover that Baby was acting like an ape simply to act like an ape and to know what it felt like to be Goku; an out of control ape.

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Though after Goku took the full force of a Super Galick Gun in order to save the Earth from blowing up, Old Kai mentions that the method of growing back his tail through the Blutz Wave Machine actually had a negative effect that was evident in Baby’s eyes and this caused Baby to experience fits of rage and a loss of control. The Saiyan instincts were taking over and Baby was fighting to keep his sanity. Even before being hit by the rays from the machine, he asked Bulma if he would be able to control himself because he only wanted to kill Goku not wreck his whole planet.

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When Baby was about to finish off Goku he was shocked to discover that the 10x Kamehameha Wave was actually a latent attack in order to catch Baby off guard.

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After that Goku and Baby knocked each other out cold!

So that was pretty much Round 1 of their battle and we really don’t know WHO was more powerful because knocking each other out generally means that they were more or less even.

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One of the most impressive feats of the battle was Goku literally throwing Baby to the ground by grabbing one of his fingers. That is pretty powerful considering that Goku wasn’t emitting an aura showing that he was holding back power in that moment.

Right before that Goku was able to break out of Baby’s powerful grip by powering up!

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So that might indicate that Goku was more powerful but the size difference between him and Baby prevented him from a quick victory.

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Though I must admit that if Goku WAS more powerful than Baby why did he have to rely on a delayed Kamehameha Wave to distract Baby? If he could have emitted enough Ki to kill Baby once and for all (which I actually thought he did) then why didn’t he do it? I’m guessing because he couldn’t but that’s just my opinion.

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When Bulma fires ALL the Blutz Waves being emitted from the Earth it not only revives Baby but it makes him more powerful and physically bigger than before. The negative effect that had on Goku was that his Ki was depleted heavily since the Earth was taking the place of the full moon and since all the Blutz Waves were being sent to Baby, Goku was getting weaker.

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Baby was so powerful that just by giving out a roar he was able to destroy buildings and his power was felt by Trunks who was far off on another section of the planet flying towards the action after being freed from Baby’s control thanks to the Sacred Water.

Goku being out of energy was bluffing until Baby called it and was on the verge of killing him until Pan stepped in. Goten, Gohan and Trunks arrive on the scene and Goku asks for them to give him their Ki so he can become a full power Super Saiyan 4 once again.

Pan says that it IS the only way because before Bulma’s machine made Baby more powerful, Goku had that ape on the ground! Now here is the line that a lot of fans use as proof of Goku being more powerful;

Baby; “That little brat is right, I cannot let him power up again!”

This might indicate fear because if Baby was 100% confident in his new power then he would do what any other villain in the past would do and let his opponent power up seeing it as no threat; Cell did this with Gohan and Buuhan was willing to let Goku fuse with someone using the Potara Earrings but Baby was like Frieza and paranoid of the threat of a Super Saiyan or in this case Super Saiyan 4.

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From there he starts attacking the group to prevent them from giving Goku their Ki. Now here is where I figure that Baby was weakened. After recovering from the Solar Flare, Baby charged up a Super Galick Gun and prepared to kill the group before he is attacked from the inside!

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Majuub who was previously eaten by Baby after being hit by his own Chocolate Beam reverts to his human self and powers up inside of Baby’s digestive system crippling the giant ape. If you ask me I think that Majuub’s assault brought Baby’s power down. Seriously Baby was in severe pain as if he was losing a battle against extreme indigestion. After spitting Majuub out he attempted another Galick Gun to kill the Saiyans BUT it was too late…

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Goku was once again at full power!!!

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Moving on to the final round of their battle he and Goku fire Ki blasts at each other and pause with both panting very hard. This again shows that they were more or less on even ground. Even Gohan and Trunks comment on how they are more or less even with Gohan mentioning that Baby might have the upper hand since Goku had taken more damage only for Pan to say that Goku HAS to win this.

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Now here is where things go wrong on Baby’s part; he starts throwing a temper tantrum making rash attempts at killing Goku. Back when Goku lost his first battle with Baby, he discovered that it was Baby’s weakness that he didn’t like being made fun of because he would throw a fit losing his cool. Goku did the same here mocking Baby saying that his Super Galick Gun probably would have hurt…if it actually hit him that its…

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Baby fires a powerful Super Galick Gun which Goku dodges with ease and that just makes Baby angrier. He pulls off a rapid fire version of the Super Galick Gun that doesn’t even hit Goku but instead causing lava to emerge from underneath the ground causing a HUGE cloud of smoke where he finds cover for his final attack.

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He charges up the Revenge Death Ball Final in an attempt to kill Goku once and for all. Goku doesn’t dodge but catches the blast but is pushed into a cliff where he is absorbed by the blast and feels the negative Ki breaking his body but his will and love for his friends and family somehow allows him to absorb the attack?

Yeah I’ll get into that later…

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From there he powers up a 10x Kamehameha Wave that knocks out Baby before blasting his tail off which forces him to revert back to his Baby Vegeta form and he exits Vegeta’s body in an attempt to escape the planet.

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Goku waits until his ship is at the right angle and blasts him into the sun!

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Baby is fried to a crisp at that is the end of the Tuffle!

Alright so in the end Goku wins that battle with the Great Ape. The question still remains though who was stronger? I suppose that Goku as a Super Saiyan 4 IS more powerful but there is still room for debate as I mentioned above. There were a lot of factors that tipped the scales of this battle in Goku AND Baby’s favor with no true clear winner.

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We don’t know how much a Great Golden Ape transformation multiplies a Saiyan’s power. The regular Great Ape form is a 10x power increase. Many fans say that the Great Golden Ape form is the “Super Saiyan of Legend” that Vegeta talked about in the Ginyu Saga. He even says that the Saiyan could only hold the form while in the Great Ape state. However, that is only in anime filler and never mentioned/seen in the manga so it is up to you as to whether or not you feel that Saiyan from Vegeta’s story IS the Great Golden Ape or aka the Super Saiyan of Legend. Well GT is non-canon so it is what it is and I’ll leave it at that.

I’ll be one to say that I do believe that the Great Golden Ape and the Saiyan from Vegeta’s story IS the same transformation. Vegeta said that the Saiyan was drunk with power destroying the planet he was on and as a result killing him.

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Goku was practically doing the same to the Tuffle Planet causing volcanic activity until he was reaching up for the earth showing that he had some memory of his “former self” which Pan helped him to remember.

In any case with some fans believing the Great Golden Ape form to be the “Super Saiyan” version of the Great Ape form some say that the form is a 50x increase of the base power just like a Super Saiyan transformation is. I GUESS this is a plausible theory because the Great Ape form is the true form of a Saiyan which is 10x the Saiyan’s power so if the Golden Ape is 50x that it would mean that Great Golden Ape Goku is 500x more powerful than base form Goku.

Super Saiyan 4 is 10x stronger than a Super Saiyan 3 meaning 4000x base power so…

Yeah it is really up to you to decide how you feel about that.

Great Ape Baby Vegeta was not just Vegeta’s power it was Baby’s as well. Keep in mind that Baby alone was not that powerful.

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Let’s see Baby had grown into a “teenager Baby” before taking over Vegeta’s body. He had gotten huge power boosts from taking over Goten and Gohan. Then he absorbed Ki from Trunks, Bulla, Gohan and Goten allowing him to transform into Baby Vegeta 2.

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Finally, he absorbs the Ki from the Earthlings-turned-Tuffles which was all negative Ki from their hatred of the Saiyans for the Revenge Death Ball which transformed him into Super Baby Vegeta.

So Baby Vegeta received 2 huge power ups prior to becoming a Great Golden Ape.

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And I believe the reason he wasn’t able to go Super Saiyan 4 even though he was “in control” of himself for the most part as a Great Golden Ape was because Vegeta wasn’t the one in control and Vegeta was technically a Tuffle and not a full blooded Saiyan. From what I can gather anyone who is not 100% Saiyan is not able to turn SS4. So Gohan, Goten and Trunks being 50% wouldn’t be able to turn SS4 which is ridiculous in my book.

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Finally, going back to what I mentioned before; how the heck did Goku survive those Revenge Death Balls?

I kind of feel that the reason he was able to do so was because those attacks were not enough to destroy him. Either that or the fact that the attack is made of 100% negative Ki which is the exact opposite of the Spirit Bomb which is made of 100% positive energy. The reason Goku could survive it was because he is a positive being well at least in base and Full Power Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 1 he is pure of heart.

Now as a Super Saiyan 4 I don’t think he is but since this is GT I don’t know if the same rules apply…

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I’m going out on a limb and say that Goku was so powerful that the Revenge Death Ball and the Flaming Death Ball were not powerful enough to inflict major or any damage to him.

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But when in terms of the Revenge Death Ball Final that was complete bull! Goku was literally trapped in the center of the blast and was suffering from the attack. It wasn’t until he refused to lose for the sake of his loved ones was he able to overpower the attack and it literally seemed like he absorbed the attack somehow.

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Kind of like how he did Bills’ ultimate attack in Battle of Gods…just throwing that out there…

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I’m just guessing that his positive energy overpowered the attack like how SS4 Gogeta was able to use his own life force to transform Omega Shenron’s Negative Karma Ball into positive energy and that attack was 100% negative energy as well so let’s say that is the reason Goku was able to “absorb” or cancel out the attack.

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So in the end Super Saiyan 4 Goku reigns supreme! Baby had to deal with his own temper tantrums, the psychological battle with himself and the Saiyan body he was controlling and a smaller/faster opponent. Goku had to deal with a larger opponent, Baby Vegeta was arguably insane threatening to blow up Earth which caused Goku to jump into an attack to save the planet, a huge loss of Ki thanks to Bulma’s machine and finally a beating from the Great Ape that almost killed him until he got his Ki recovered.

If Baby Vegeta DID go Super Saiyan 4 then who knows who the victor might have been…

Overall, I think Majuub did weaken Baby Vegeta lowering his power enough for Goku to more or less have the upper hand.

What do you think was Goku outright the most powerful of the 2 or did Baby have more power but was outsmarted by Goku?