RANT: Piccolo’s Elimination | Dragon Ball Super

by Jeremy Carden

Universe_Survival_Arc_Eyecatch

I knew from the beginning that not all of Universe 7’s Team would make it to the finale of the Tournament of Power.
 
After tonight’s episode, their team is down to 6 fighters. When you really think about it, MOST of their remaining fighters still have a good deal of stamina.
DBS_18_&_17_teaming_up
 
Androids 17 and 18 do not get exhausted, and 18’s hurt ankle is arguably the only ‘weakness’ within the Android Duo at the moment.
1508291079_frieza-eliminates-cabba-dragon-ball-super-episode-112-preview-video-breakdown
 
Frieza has only been toying around with his prey, and has gone Golden twice if I’m not mistaken. He did once while playing a facade with Gohan against Frost, and then briefly to take out Super Saiyan 2 Cabba. Aside from that, he’s donated energy to Goku twice; once for the Spirit Bomb and again after he was depleted from fighting Jiren.
dragon-ball-super
 
Vegeta has been a key player in that he’s been pacing himself, taken out the most fighters in the tournament (right behind Goku by a couple of fighters) and the only time he has gone anywhere close to all-out was against Toppo, but that fight was constantly getting interrupted.
Piccolos-New-Ability-In-The-Tournament-of-Power-4-tile
 
According to Gohan, the ONLY time he has truly used his full power was against the Universe 6 Namekians. Yes, he did go Ultimate briefly against Frieza and Universe 10’s final fighter, but he stated FULL POWER was only used on the Nameks.
maxresdefault (18)
 
And of course, we all know Goku has been exhausted yet pushing himself for quite sometime now.
maxresdefault
 
Now, we get to the fighters that HAVE been eliminated. In my opinion, Master Roshi was the only one of the four to have a decent elimination.
Dragon-Ball-Super-Episode-99-1
 
-Krillin was “caught off guard” by Frost after he was cheering himself on AT THE EDGE OF THE RING after eliminating a fighter with a combo of his foot odor and a Kamehameha Wave.
DQmVjjgJNwaqh5XFybfSsE3PU5sPS3k34McXDi55nANrS3A
 
-Tien was eliminated by Universe 2’s sniper along with his clones instead of leaving at least one of ‘himself’ on the arena…
 

download (3)

-Piccolo was eliminated by the ‘invisible bug’ and then 17 points out that all of them focus too much on ki signature and energy readings instead of the more obvious things like sound.
 
That’s all well and good, but for PICCOLO to be eliminated because he failed to HEAR something is utter trash!
Screenshot_149
Yes, I know this fact is non-canon that I’m about to mention but even in the original Broly film, Piccolo joked about hearing King Kai and Goku telepathically speaking about the threat in the Southern Galaxy, and Piccolo took one of Bulma’s spaceships to help out the gang. He even sarcastically said with ears as big as his that he could hear any conversation in the universe. Over-hyping his hearing but it should be acute indeed!
 
As someone who is mentioned by others and even himself about being one of the most tactical fighters and minds of Universe 7, I think this was one of the DUMBEST ways to eliminate Piccolo!
 
The only “good” that could come from Piccolo losing is that it pushes Gohan to fight on harder than ever before.
 
Episode 119 of Super was just awful in my opinion…
Let’s hope that any future eliminations of Team Universe 7 will get handled better than the awful three mentioned above.
Be sure to subscribe to my Youtube channel where I discuss everything anime and comic book related!
Also, my Dragon Ball Facebook page is another place where conversations about the franchise never ends!
Advertisements

DBZ: How Powerful Was Future Gohan?

By Jeremy Carden

250px-GohanFutureSSINV

One of the most popular characters in the Dragon Ball franchise and a fan favorite among the many incarnations of Goku’s son Gohan is his persona from the timeline of Future Trunks.

After Dr. Gero’s androids emerged and began killing the inhabitants of the earth, Gohan was the last warrior standing to combat this deadly threat.

Eventually, Gohan fell to the power of the android duo and the fate of the world rested on the shoulders of Future Trunks. However, the question still remains regarding how powerful Future Gohan actually was.

Many fans are curious as to how a 23-year-old Gohan was unable to go any further than the regular Super Saiyan transformation.

gohan-ssy2-14

Despite being in an apocalyptic world and fighting/training for 13 years on his own, there are significant differences between his persona from the timeline we know of where he ascended to a Super Saiyan 2 and killed Cell ending the android threat to the world and the timeline of Trunks’ future where the androids were destroying the planet.

We know that Gohan was the last warrior who survived after the future versions of Android #17 and #18 attacked the earth and the Z-Fighters were killed during the battle.

He tells Trunks that the anger he felt over remembering how unfair it was for his friends to die to the androids was what fueled his rage enough for him to finally become a Super Saiyan.

Future_Gohan-620x

Something that we never learn and what could add a lot of information to this topic is when exactly Gohan became a Super Saiyan. He told Trunks that seeing his friends getting killed by #17 and #18 created the necessary emotions for him to ascend doesn’t give us that much of a way to pinpoint his ascension. It could be argued that he was present during the big battle and saw the Z-Team getting killed right before his eyes. From there he somehow escaped and remembering the fear, despair and anger of that battle caused him to become a Super Saiyan.

Future-Chichi-dragon-ball-females-36907303-500-278

You could also argue that he did not ascend until later in his life as a teenager after he decided to devote his life to training and protecting the earth. During the scene where we see Future Chi-Chi and Future Ox-King, it was mentioned that after the androids attacked the earth, Gohan devoted his life to avenge the death of his friends. We can assume that he gave up his mother’s dreams for him to become a scholar to go into his “father’s work” to protect the earth. That means no more endless days at his desk studying and doing homework, Gohan was training full time in order to defeat the androids!

Whatever the case maybe, we know that Gohan was alone in his training. Compared to the Gohan of the present, Future Gohan did not go inside of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Goku for a year (well not a full year but close to one) and he did not have 3 years of intense training prior to the androids arrival with Goku and Piccolo.

kjjk

So we can assume that the Future Gohan we see at the beginning of the History of Trunks special was weaker than the Gohan of the same age before the androids arrive.

GokuGohanHyperbolicTimeChamber

Considering that Gohan did not have experienced warriors to assist him in his training, it was all a solo effort in an attempt to raise his skills high enough to take down the androids. Personally, I thought it was strange that no one told Future Gohan about the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. I know that everyone who knew about it (Goku, Piccolo and Kami) had all died, but through the use of King Kai’s telepathy or Mr. Popo contacting Gohan directly they could have informed him of the room and he could have used that for intense training. However, I guess that would make too much sense and this is DB we are talking about here…

Future-Gohan-vs-Android-17-future-gohan-24494795-548-410

Based on what we learned from the manga and anime special, the only form of combat training that Gohan received that involved another powerful being was when he fought with androids on multiple occasions. According to Ox-King, Gohan encountered the killer bots many times before we see him fight them at the amusement park and in the destroyed city where they finally kill him.

Since the androids do not have a Ki signature for him to sense, it can be assumed that Gohan would arrive on the scene of an android attack. Whenever they were demolishing a city or going on a killing spree, Gohan could probably sense a drastic disappearance of minor Ki signatures (the innocent people being killed off).

NamekianHeadache(1)

I say this because thinking back to Namek, Gohan and the others could sense whenever Vegeta or one of Frieza’s men was killing a village of Nameks from faraway. With that being said, I think the same is true about the androids whenever they killed people “for fun.”

Future_Gohan

Gohan would probably arrive on the scene and engage the androids in battle and escape when things got too overwhelming for him. It was 1 warrior against 2 androids who had superior power, but the fact that he could escape to fight another day says a lot about Gohan’s speed and evasion tactics. Not to mention the androids were not capable of sensing his Ki signature to track him down.

You could say that the androids were playing cat and mouse with him just as Future Trunks told Goku when he described how they enjoyed hunting him down.

GohanPoweringUpNamek

Considering that the Zenkai boost was still in play, Gohan would possibly get more powerful after each android encounter if he suffered a major injury and recovered.  Similar to how he had major power boosts on Namek while fighting the Ginyu Force or Frieza, we can assume that healing from android attacks increased his power. Then fighting them and training between bouts increased his skill.

Future-Gohan

While dining at Bulma’s house where she comments on how Gohan reminded her so much of his late father Goku, Gohan says that he wears his dad’s old colors to inspire him to become stronger.

FutureTrunksTimeMachine.HistoryofTrunks

Overall, I think Future Trunks is the best way of figuring out how powerful Future Gohan was. Before going to the past to deliver the heart medicine to Goku and warn him of the upcoming android threat, Bulma says that Trunks is just about as powerful as Gohan was before he died 3 years ago.

DBZ-Future-Trunks-Defeated-By-Androids

Now here is where there is a slight difference between the anime and the manga. In the anime special, Bulma says this prior to Trunks going to attack the androids while they were destroying a city. After somehow surviving #18’s powerful Masenko-like Ki attack, Trunks was stuck in bed healing for weeks practically near death from that fierce battle. Going off of that fact, we can figure that the Zenkai boost he got from that recovery was huge!

tumblr_mbfmzmalQC1ryrpaxo1_500

Similar to how Gohan got a Zenkai boost after losing an arm and nearly his life saving Trunks from the androids in the amusement park, Trunks’ power must have increased dramatically.

TrunksFutureSuperSaiyanFrieza

However, this battle never took place in the manga but when it comes to his arrival in the past the description of his power is the same. While the Z-Fighters were stunned from the powers they were sensing from where Frieza landed his ship with his father King Cold, Gohan was quick to comment that the power he felt (while Trunks was transforming into a Super Saiyan) was the same that he felt from Goku on Namek.

What does this mean?

Super Saiyan Future Trunks was pretty much equal in terms of power to Super Saiyan Goku when he first transformed on Namek while fighting Frieza.

maxresdefault

Now the official power level listing of Goku as a Super Saiyan was 150,000,000 so Trunks was around that level of power or practically 150 million on the nose.

What does this say about Future Gohan?

FutureBulma.HistoryTrunks

Well Future Bulma said that Trunks was ABOUT as powerful as Gohan was before he got killed by the androids. This could mean that Future Gohan was slightly more powerful than Frieza Saga Super Saiyan Goku.

This is not surprising considering the Zenkai boost he received from that battle in the amusement park was probably very huge.

4323cats-y

Keep in mind that Goku was probably a lot more powerful when he arrived on earth from his 1 ½ years of being in space. After the battle on Namek, Goku was pretty banged up and landed on Yardrat. We can assume that he gained a Zenkai boost raising his base power of 3,000,000 and Super Saiyan power of 150,000,000 to new heights.

3816723-3403734140-Stepo

On top of that, he trained on Yardrat in order to learn how to turn Super Saiyan at will while also picking up the Instant Transmission technique. So the neck and neck power levels of Super Saiyan Goku on Namek and Future Trunks was now leaning in Goku’s favor.

Super_Saiyan_Future_Trunks_vs._Super_Saiyan_Goku_1

I also think that Goku was more powerful than Future Gohan, but that is debatable. In any case, we can place Future Gohan in-between Future Trunks when he first arrives in the past and Goku post-Yardrat training/Zenkai boost.

TrunksFutureVsAndroid18Sword

Keep in mind that the #17 and #18 of the future were stated by Trunks to be much weaker than the androids of the present. That is because in his future timeline, he could hold his own against them. However in the present, he was knocked out in two blows from the androids.

Since Future Gohan was holding his own against the androids before being killed that says a lot. Of course, we arrive at another difference between the manga and anime in regards to how Gohan was killed and the power of the androids.

10

#17 says in their last encounter he wasn’t even using half of his power. In the battle where Gohan was killed, it was assumed that the android(s) were at maximum or full power because #17 said he wasn’t going to hold back this time.

Alright in the manga, it was only #17 who was shown to attack Gohan (who had a stunned look on his face when #17 said he wasn’t using his full power in their last fight) and in the next panel he was already dead when Trunks arrived on the scene.

future-gohan-dies-o

In the anime, not only does Gohan fight both androids but he holds his own for quite awhile even with only ONE of his arms! When I first saw this fight and how well Gohan was doing, I honestly thought he was going to win. It wasn’t until the androids ganged up on him did he start to become overwhelmed and was eventually killed.

Tumblr_lvn6siqCSU1qcfgllo1_500-1-

Also looking back at his battle with #17 at the amusement park in the anime special, Gohan was on the receiving end of attack for quite some time but eventually he fought back and gained the upper hand. It wasn’t until #18 stepped in did he start to get beaten.

Depending on how you want to look at the amusement park and the city battle, in terms of whether or not #17 was using half or his full power it seems like Gohan had the power to match and defeat at least one of the androids.

Doctor Gero dragonball dbz gt13d

I really believe that if Gohan fought 1-on-1 with #17 or #18 he would be able to destroy them. The reason I say this is because Gohan is a warrior, but the androids were normal humans who were transformed into cyborgs by Dr. Gero. Due to his skill and experience, Gohan would be more efficient in tactical strategy and technique in order to overcome his possibly more powerful foes. This is evident in the fact that he could somehow escape each encounter with the androids to live to fight another day.

20130124193745!Gohan_del_Futuro_SSJ2_Falso

Future Gohan is much more brutal and vicious than his present-self in terms of combat because let’s face it, the present Gohan lived in a generally peaceful timeline but in the future he lived in Hell. All of that battling and violence right before his eyes truly showed him the darker side of existence and the kind-hearted Gohan he was as a child was gone.

tumblr_ljoczadptG1qf8kb8o1_500

I’m not saying he still isn’t the sweet and understanding Gohan that he is in the present, but he isn’t cowardly and timid. Bulma says that Gohan is just like Goku who was powerful but gentle at the same time.

Vegetavs181

In case anyone wanted to make the comparison, it is true that Vegeta in the present was more of a warrior than #18 but was still beaten to a pulp. However, keep in mind that despite #18 being more powerful it was Vegeta who was fighting sloppy and letting pride blind his skill that ultimately led to his defeat.

Future Gohan knows how to keep his cool in combat against the prideful #17 which causes the android to take some embarrassing attacks that Gohan lands on him when he is off guard allowing him to take control of the battle.

dbm_goku_vs_cold_by_leackim7891-d3y3h8d

With all of that being said, I believe that Future Gohan at the time of his final battle and demise was probably around the power of Goku when he arrived back on earth from his training on Yardart. Keep in mind that the difference of the timelines began when Goku arrived back on earth and killed Mecha Frieza and King Cold in Trunks’ timeline. Also remember that this Goku was equal in power to the one we see in the Trunks Saga.

Do you agree? If not, how powerful do you think Future Gohan was?

Dragonball Theory: Who was Dr. Gero’s Son?

by Jeremy Carden

images

In a recent interview with Akira Toriyama, it was revealed that Dr. Gero modeled Android 16 after his dead son, who in life was a high-ranking member of the Red Ribbon Army that was killed in action. After creating #16, Gero programmed him as the most powerful of his androids, but also to be peaceful as he did not wish to see him fall in combat.

Learning this information made me speculate a few things such as the fate of Gero’s son along with who he was prior to his demise.

It is unknown whether or not Gero’s son was killed prior to the Red Ribbon Army’s quest to obtain the Dragonballs leading to the final confrontation with Goku. Considering that this unknown person was a HIGH-RANKING member of the RR Army we can assume that he was a Colonel or General.

images (27)

We all know that during Goku’s war against the army, many members of the organization were killed.

images (6)

To narrow down who #16 was based off of, I think it is safe to guess that it was a RR Army member who had well red hair.

images (22)

This had me guessing it was either Colonel Silver or the person who I first assumed it to be; Commander Red!!!

Now here me out, I wager that Commander Red is the obvious choice over Colonel Silver for a few reasons. It goes back to the original design of #16 that Gero programmed him to be;

images (1)

  1. The most powerful Android

Android 16 was the most powerful Android in Gero’s arsenal until the arrival of Cell (from the future) and that goes hand in hand to Commander Red who was the most powerful in terms of ranking within the RR Army.

Now it stands to reason that if Commander Red was Gero’s son, the good doctor would physically make #16 to be the opposite of Red. We have a short red-haired man who was the most powerful man in his organization but was looked down upon.

Then looking at #16, we have this massive hulking red-haired Android who looks down on everyone but not in a patronizing way. He is powerful but silent unlike Commander Red who is loud and easily angered.

images (19)

  1. Peaceful

Gero could have programmed #16 to be the exact opposite of Commander Red who was power hungry and did not hesitate to kill or destroy in order to get what he wanted. This is a direct contrast to #16 who is gentle like Gohan. He does not crave power, destruction, death and mayhem. It seemed that he appreciated all living things along with nature and would do anything to protect it.

This is a sharp contrast to Commander Red and his army which did not mind setting an entire forest on fire to get a Dragonball (well that was Colonel Silver’s doing).

images (15)

  1. Did not wish to see him fall in combat

Finally, we get to Gero NOT wanting him to fall in combat. Now this could mean many things in terms of how Gero’s son actually died. He could have died in the line of duty in some kind of battle which is unseen in the manga or anime.

dragon_ball_art_dr_gero_painting_nacho_molina

Dr. Gero was an old man and it is likely he was old during Dragonball when he worked for the army (never seen until the Android Saga). It is possible that during his time working for the army his son was killed then and that made him work even harder for the organization.

Honestly, if I had to guess I’d say that he knew that his son died and that is why he swore revenge on Goku for destroying the RR Army. Either because his son was dead prior to Goku’s attack and the army was all Gero had to live for or Goku killed his son making Gero furious at the little Saiyan. In either scenario, it seems like Goku was to blame for it all because he took away everything Gero held dear in this world.

images (12)

Let’s say Commander Red WAS Gero’s son, it seems that Gero most likely escaped when everyone else evacuated the RR Compound during Goku’s attack and because of that he did not see the true reason for Red’s death.

images (8)

As we all know, it was because Staff Officer Black who committed the murder of Commander Red after he found out the true intentions of the organization’s hunt for the Dragonballs (which was to make Red taller)! Finding out all of this along with a patronizing talk from the Commander was enough to push Black over the edge and shoot Red in the head killing him instantly!

images (25)

Here is how I figured things played out in Gero’s mind as he escaped the compound; he saw that everything was being destroyed during the battle and it was all because of Goku. Considering that Black was his right-hand man, Gero probably figured that Red was in good hands and would escape with the Dragonballs.

download (2)

It stands to reason that as time went on he knew the army had fallen but had heard nothing from the Commander. Remember that Android #20 told the Z-Fighters that Dr. Gero (himself) had created the small robotic device to track Goku from his teenage years to adulthood.

images (29)

It all started when he sent one to spy on the little Sayian during the 22nd World Tournament where the climactic battle was Goku vs. Tien.

download (5)

Keep in mind this occurred AFTER Goku’s assault on the RR Army. I think that Gero created a robot similar to that one to go checkout the ruins of the RR compound and there in the buildings discovered the corpse of Commander Red. He probably was enraged that “his son” was killed and figured that it was the work of Goku!

On DB Wiki it states; “Dr. Gero’s son was a high-ranking Red Ribbon soldier, but felled by an enemy bullet.”

That is interesting because Commander Red was killed from a bullet square in the head!

download (1)

Now you could once again argue that Colonel Silver is Gero’s son because he too was “killed” by bullets because after failing to get the Dragonball he was seen walking out of Red’s office. He was then followed by some men with guns, we hear a few gunshots off screen but we never know his true fate. So there is a slim but very possible chance that Gero’s son was the Colonel.

images (30)

In the original dialogue, Piccolo mentioned that Android #20 spoke as if he were Dr. Gero himself based off how he talked of vengeance and how the entire RR Army fell apart due to Goku’s interference. #20 quickly responded that it was impossible due to “his creator” having died long ago.

It is possible that #20 did not mention Gero’s son being the reason for his vendetta against Goku, because if he did that would pretty much solidify that he was in fact Dr. Gero himself.

Vegetavs181

Something else to take note of is how #16 treats his comrades by looking at their actions. Whenever it is suggested that he take part in combat for #17 and #18 to see what he could really do, he outright refuses stating that his only target was Goku.

images (36)

This made the other two Androids go into battle while #16 just stayed on the sidelines.

images (11)

This kind of mirrors Commander Red’s position as the head of the RR Army, he just sat around while his underlings were out in the field of battle taking care of opposition until his goal was achieved and that was the gathering of the 7 magic balls.

images (28)

For #16 it was just him getting to where Goku was and destroying him. I do find it interesting that he just went along with #17’s plan of driving to Goku’s location instead of simply flying there. Not to mention he was able to trace power levels with a built in detector meaning that he would have been easily able to track down Goku and kill him in no time. However, he just went where the other 2 Androids went. I guess that comes with his peaceful nature just going along with his “friends.”

10295734_912856962073756_3562579455518115722_n

To wrap things up, I’ll discuss how Commander Red and Dr. Gero were tied together in terms of how his son ran the army while he as top scientist.

images (39)

Based on what we do know, the RR Army was not always the terrorist organization that we saw it to be in the Dragonball series. It was once a corporation similar to Capsule Corp. developing new technology to advance modern day living.

images (40)

Due to Dr. Briefs development of the Capsule or Dyno-Caps, the success of that organization far exceeded anything achieved by the RR corporation which led to them forming the RR Army.

images (10)

The original goal was to rule the world with the Dragonballs, but as I mentioned earlier the true purpose of gathering the balls was to make Red taller. It seems that the only person who knew of this goal was Commander Red himself…and possibly his father Dr. Gero.

images (15)

Again, it goes back to why Gero made #16 to not only be the most powerful Android but to be the biggest and tallest of the robots because it was the “dying wish of his son!”

images (9)

Dr. Gero was probably a loving father but did not like what his son was becoming which was a power-hungry tyrant that did not care what it took to obtain his goals even if it meant death and destruction. Again, this goes back to Gero creating #16 to be a PEACEFUL Android rather than an Android created not only for the destruction of Goku but not mindlessly killing and destroying in order to fulfill their mission.

Vegeta_vs_Android_18

When Super Saiyan Vegeta missed Android #18 with his Big Bang Attack blowing up a pickup truck and causing a huge explosion, #17 commented “Now that’s what I like to see; destruction!”

189px-Android18Cowgirl

Then when riding the van they stole through the woods on their way to Goku’s house, #18 was annoyed by the bumpy ride and blasted the forest in order to create a clear path for them to drive on.

images (3)

#16 never partook in any needless destruction and opted to sit on the sidelines and play with the birds. This was a huge contrast from his Android companions!

dbz134-02

You could see how overly protective he was of #16 when #17 and #18 were eager to awaken him from his “coffin.” Gero kept making excuses as to why they should not activate him saying that he wasn’t finished yet and that he would destroy the world if he was let loose.

images (14)

This led to #17 scanning #16 saying that he was too inferior to do something like that. In any case, we know that Gero was very adamant in keeping “his son” safe from harm.

images (16)

To him #17 and #18 were the rebellious children that would most likely have a negative influence on “the good child” (#16) and he did not want him to have anything to do with them.

It does make me wonder if he was honestly still working on programming Android 16 or if he was actually finished with him but never released him due to not wanting him to fight.

download (4)

That seems very strange for him to create the strongest Android in his arsenal, but program him to be peaceful and not fight. If he had let #16 loose to attack the Z-Fighters on the island off of South City (instead of himself and Android 19) then I think it is safe to say all of them would have been killed with ease!

images (24)

However, Commander Red was not very powerful in terms of physical appearance (unless you count that one time when he is ordering around Colonel Silver and tosses a knife so hard that it destroys a statue in his office though I think that was just done for dramatic effect and it was prior to us learning that he was in fact a midget) and it makes sense that Gero would make his Android counterpart to be the exact opposite.

I do find it kind of ironic that if Goku did kill Dr. Gero’s son then it all goes around full-circle;

Dr. Gero created #16 out of pure vengeance and with the one mission of killing Goku

images (35)

#16 attempted to kill Cell due to the beast being the reason of so much death and destruction to the world that he had loved so much

images (32)

The death of #16 was the key to Goku’s son (Gohan) having the power to kill Cell which was ultimately Dr. Gero’s greatest creation in order to protect the planet

images (33)

Goku died as a result of Cell blowing himself up in order to protect the planet

Wow kind of funny how all of that just comes together! Gero created #16 to be a peace loving robot and in the end his death was the result of a 7 year period of peace until Majin Buu arrived.

This is why I feel that Commander Red is POSSIBLY the son of Dr. Gero who he based Android 16 was based off of. Who do you think was Gero’s son; an unseen solider that perished prior to the army’s appearance in Dragonball, Commander Red, Colonel Silver or someone I failed to mention in this blog? Feel free to chime in with your thoughts in the comment section below!

Now when all is said and done this is of course just pure speculation by yours truly. However, it is always fun to try and connect the dots to figure out the mysteries of Dragonball. I hope that you all enjoyed this blog and keep your eyes open for the next one about a character who stands the test of time as an ageless female who is actually related to this blog in one way or another…

If you liked what you just read and want to see even more Dragonball blogs and theories be sure to follow my blog! Also I’m on Twitter @jccarden and I have a DBZ Facebook Page called Vegeta Is The Best.

 

Dragonball GT: How Strong Is Vegeta?

by Jeremy Carden

DragonballGT-27-TheAttackOnVeget-3

I think there is a way of figuring out just how powerful base form Vegeta was in GT by using Hell Fighter 17 as evidence. These two fought against each other before 17 fused with Android 17 (the one we know of on Earth) to become Super 17.

Now during their fight it was pretty clear that they were more or less even; with 17 getting a couple of lucky shots in that made Vegeta pissed.

306744

Dr. Myuu said that this Android was only running at 50%, I really don’t know what he meant by that;

Was this #17 simply running at 50% during his fight with Vegeta or did he mean that since there were TWO #17s that he wouldn’t be at 100% until AFTER they had fused?

images (5)

download (1)

As far as I know, Hell Fighter 17 was equal in power to Android 17 (who is equal to Super Namek Piccolo) with the only real difference being that he was a Machine Mutant rather than a full Android.

images (2)

If you ask me I think that Myuu was referring to Hell Fighter 17 being at 50% power because in Hell he and Gero talked about how each of these #17s were going to fill in the incomplete gaps inside of the other in order to completely bring #17’s power to its maximum.

I know he also said originally #17 was supposed to be even stronger than Cell. So, until they became one, both #17s was only capable of running at 50% power; basically think of each of them being as powerful as Kamiccolo.

]hkj

Keep in mind that as a Super Namek (pre-Time Chamber), Piccolo was equal to #17, weaker than #16 who was equal to Imperfect Cell (after absorbing 1000s of people for their life force) but also stronger than Super Saiyan Goku, Trunks and Vegeta (pre-Time Chamber).

Now, with GT Vegeta being even with him in base form that means as a SS he would be 50x as strong so let’s do some math!

  • Vegeta; base form = 1 Kamiccolo
  • Vegeta; Super Saiyan = 50 Kamiccolo
  • Vegeta; Super Saiyan 2 = 100 Kamiccolo

download (2)

I would include Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta BUT he had been doing a lot of training before he let Bulma experiment on him meaning that he would be a bit more powerful than he was in the Super 17 Saga so let’s just keep it to that saga only. I know the Shadow Dragon Saga was right after the Super 17 but Vegeta has proven before that he can increase his power in a short amount of time depending on the circumstances of his training like increase gravity or something like that.

download (4)

Let’s see if we can take this a bit further to see how strong his SS powers were. I feel that Vegeta, Trunks and Piccolo tripled their power after their first trip in the Time Chamber. I know Vegeta laughed when Goku said that he’d have to at least triple his power before he would have a chance at beating Cell. If you ask me I think that Vegeta tripled his base and Super Saiyan power level but of course took it a step further when going Ascended Saiyan.

images (7)

After his first time in the chamber, Piccolo’s power was enough to shock Trunks and later on Goku pointed out how much stronger he became and again I feel that he tripled his power making him more or less equal to Super Vegeta.

Remember Piccolo was stronger than Super Saiyan Vegeta BEFORE they went in the Time Chamber so if you ask me despite them both tripling their power, the bit of power Piccolo had over Vegeta before they entered in the time chamber is what made a difference. However, by reaching Ascended Super Saiyan, Vegeta was able to close that gap between them.

download (7)

At least this is what I think so with that being said; let’s break down my equation more by dividing Vegeta’s power by “3 Kamiccolos” because 3 of them should be more or less equal to one Super Vegeta.

Super Saiyan GT Vegeta is 16.6 or 17 Super Vegeta(s) put together. Of course measuring SS2 Vegeta is simple because it is just double or 33.3 Super Vegeta(s) put together.

images

So first, let’s break down Super Saiyan Vegeta because that makes calculating SS2 Vegeta a lot easier. Also remember GT over exaggerated the power of a lot of characters so my final results might seem farfetched. But then again this is GT we are talking about…

We know that Super Vegeta is stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell but weaker than a Cell Jr, Perfect Cell (while holding back) and Full Power Super Saiyan Goku and Gohan.

Ascended and Ultra Super Saiyan are both known as Super Saiyan 1.5 but if you ask me I think I think it is ranked like this in terms of power;

  1. Super Saiyan
  2. Ascended Super Saiyan
  3. Full Power Super Saiyan
  4. Ultra Super Saiyan
  5. Super Saiyan 2

The reason Full Power is blow Ultra is because Cell comments that Ultra Trunks had indeed exceeded him in power but due to lack of speed and the inability to land any attacks meant that he was doomed to lose. Full Power SS was below Perfect Cell but able to hold a good fight against him due to being a blend of both power AND speed but in terms of raw power it is below Ultra in terms of just raw power alone.

Now here is how I’d give them nicknames in terms of that 1.5 thing;

  1. Super Saiyan of course is going to be just 1
  2. Ascended Super Saiyan I place as 1.25
  3. Full Power Super Saiyan; 1.5
  4. Ultra Super Saiyan; 1.75
  5. Super Saiyan 2; 2.00

Remember Super Saiyan 2 is TWICE the power of a Super Saiyan; of course it could be argued that is the case for Trunks or Vegeta but when Goku and Gohan reached SS2 it would double their Full Power Super Saiyan strength due to them basically taking the “normal” Super Saiyan transformation and mastering it rather than break the mold with Ascended or Ultra.

dragon-ball-gt-the-attack-on-vegeta-clip-1

Alright, so now that this has been broken down let’s go even further. We can measure GT Vegeta’s power as a Super Saiyan or 17 Super Vegeta(s) using the above numbers to help out.

In theory, SS2 Gohan is 75% stronger than Super Vegeta. Meaning that Full Power SS Goku and Gohan (who were basically the same in terms of power with Gohan just being a tad bit stronger) would be half of that 75% since their power would double as a SS2 meaning FPSS Gohan and Goku are around 37.5% stronger than Super Vegeta.

So, by simply adding and multiplying that 1.25, it can break down the equation even more so the finally number can be measured (keep in mind that there are only 17 Super Vegeta(s) needed for this;

  • 4 Super Vegeta(s) = 5
  • 8 Super Vegeta(s) = 10
  • 16 Super Vegeta(s) = 20

With one leftover equaling a sum of 21.25 is the power of 17 Super Vegeta(s) put together. That would mean GT SS Vegeta is 10x as strong as SS2 Gohan from the Cell Saga.

Gohan_ssj2

Then all we’d have to do is double that amount as a Super Saiyan 2 and GT Vegeta’s maximum would be 20x stronger than SS2 Gohan.

Think these numbers are crazy?

Remember I wasn’t a math major but I do know basically math functions and equations. Keep in mind that these base form numbers are believable (somewhat) but going Super Saiyan increases it by FIFTY blowing everything out of the water!

download (5)

Just know that GT made EVERYONE but Goku appear as a weakling compared to him and the bad guys and even when someone has a new move (Vegeta’s Final Shine) or new power (Majuub) they are quickly rendered as weak and thrown into the background. So, despite being this powerful, Vegeta was easily beaten by the likes of Super 17.