Dragon Ball Super: Is Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan More Powerful Than Super Saiyan 4?

By Jeremy Carden

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Since Battle of Gods, DBZ fans have been debating about Super Saiyan 4 vs. Super Saiyan God.

With the new Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan transformation revealed, the debated has sparked even more controversy. Despite the ongoing debate between fans, there has been no clear definitive answer as to which form is superior.

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Most fans are quick to say that it does not matter how powerful Super Saiyan 4 is because GT is not canon. Not to mention with Dragon Ball Super on the horizon, it is set to “erase” GT from existence. I will get into my thoughts on that in another blog, but for now the focus will be on which Super Saiyan transformation is superior.

It has never been fully established how powerful these new forms are when compared to the standard Super Saiyan forms. Which forms am I referring to?

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These 3 below:

  • Super Saiyan God
  • Saiyan beyond God
  • Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan

Here is what we do know about the standard Super Saiyan forms:

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  • Super Saiyan 1 is 50 times more powerful than base form
  • Super Saiyan 2 is twice the power of a Super Saiyan (100 times base form)
  • Super Saiyan 3 is four times more powerful than Super Saiyan 2 (400 times base form)
  • Super Saiyan 4 is ten times more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 (4000 times base form)

The missing factor in all of this involves how much more powerful Super Saiyan God is when compared to Super Saiyan 3.

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We know that Beerus took out Super Saiyan 3 Goku with a simple flick to the forehead, and a well placed karate chop to a pressure point on Goku’s neck.

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However, Beerus tried this same karate chop on Super Saiyan God Goku, but it failed to work! This shows us that Goku’s power has increased to astounding new heights!

It was one of those blink-and-you-miss moments during the beginning of their battle.

In the end, 70% Beerus was able to defeat 80% Super Saiyan God Goku; remember that Goku never fought at 100% with his new power.

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Saiyan beyond God is a “form” that Goku and Vegeta reach after the events of Battle of Gods, and during their time as students under Whis.

A Saiyan prodigy who transforms into Super Saiyan God will revert back to base form after the Super Saiyan God form time limit runs out. However, they will absorb the power of the Super Saiyan God into their base form. This will result in the Saiyan becoming a Saiyan beyond God.

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It reminds me of Ultimate Gohan because in his “base form” he has far more power than he ever did as a Super Saiyan 1 or 2. The reason I say “base form” is because as Ultimate Gohan his outer appearance barely changes from his regular appearance.

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When it comes to Saiyan beyond God vs. the appearance of base Goku or Vegeta, the only change is the color of their aura. It becomes more of a milky white color when compared to their standard base form aura.

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When a Saiyan beyond God has access to the Super Saiyan transformation…they can become a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan!

It is unknown how much more powerful this makes a Saiyan beyond God, or how much more powerful this form is when compared to a Super Saiyan God.

Most fans are quick to assume that just like the standard Super Saiyan transformation; it increases a Saiyan’s power 50 times over the power of his base power. In this case, “base power” is considered Saiyan beyond God.

Wait, does that mean a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is 50 times the power of a Super Saiyan God?

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Saiyan beyond God is basically a Saiyan in base form that has mastered or absorbed the power of a Super Saiyan God into their body right?

Although it is not official, I can see why most fans would assume that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is superior to a Super Saiyan God by 50 times.

However, the Super Saiyan multiplier scale seems to conflict with Akira Toriyama’s own power scale for the gods.

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He stated his own personal belief on the power differences between the Battle of Gods characters below:

Super Saiyan God Goku is about a “6”, Beerus a “10” and Whis about a “15”.

To me this never made much sense, and please do not think that I am debating the word of the official creator of Dragon Ball Z. However, the key phrase here is that these levels are Akira’s “own personal belief.”

With that being said, I think it is fair for me (or any other fan for that matter) to have my own personal belief as well.

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As I mentioned before, Beerus was only fighting at 70% power when he battled Super Saiyan God Goku. The Saiyan never truly fought at 100% with his new godly power. His time limit in the form ran out before he could kick things up to full power.

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True, Beerus mentioned that Goku absorbed the power of the Super Saiyan God into his base form, and from there transformed into a Super Saiyan. That explained why he was able to fight on par with Beerus for some time, and he did not even notice that his Super Saiyan God fuel had burned out until Beerus mentioned it to him.

Some may argue that Goku fought Beerus as a Saiyan beyond God after his Super Saiyan God power fizzled out like a flat can of soda.

Others might mention that Goku fighting Beerus as a Full Power Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God was a potential foreshadowing of the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan!

Both are valid points, and I think they are worth mentioning.

Now here is where my opinion is slightly different than Akira’s own personal belief. If my math is mistaken, please feel free to let me know in the comment section below (and be respectful because we are all human, and mistakes can be made).

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If Beerus (at 70% power) was fighting Super Saiyan God Goku (at 80% power), wouldn’t this imply that Beerus is at best only 10% more powerful than Super Saiyan God Goku?

That conflicts with Goku being a 6, and Beerus being a 10. The gap of 4 seems to imply much more than a 10% difference in strength. My opinion is that Akira did not write Battle of Gods with the intention of having an exact measuring system of power levels.

Remember that they were only introduced into the series so the characters and fans would come to realize how useless they really were.

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Considering that Trunks at level 5 was the last power level scanned in the series, I am sure that we can assume that in the interview, Akira did not have an exact figure in his head regarding the power of the gods. We just know that Whis is more powerful than Beerus, and Beerus is more powerful than Goku.

To me, Full Power Super Saiyan Goku (with the power of Super Saiyan God) was not as powerful as he was when he was a Super Saiyan God. I say this because Goku was experiencing the power for the very first time, and he did not have full mastery over his new power yet.

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After training with Whis, I suspect the Saiyan beyond God version of Goku is superior to even his Super Saiyan God form from Battle of Gods (to a certain extent).

We then find out that the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is basically a Super Saiyan fighting with the power of a Super Saiyan God.

Wait, does that mean Goku could become a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 2 and a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3?

I am not going to go down that rabbit hole because we could be going back and forth about this for an eternity. If Goku could indeed reach those forms then as a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3, his power would be 400 times the power of a Saiyan beyond God!

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Now to get back on track, Saiyan beyond God is superior to Super Saiyan God in the sense that this is a base form Saiyan that has mastered the Super Saiyan God transformation.

What does this mean?

It means that base form Goku and Vegeta can fight with the power of a Super Saiyan God, but the time limit of the godly form is no longer a handicap.

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Again a comparison can be made to Ultimate Gohan vs. Super Saiyan 3. Gohan is allowed to fight with his maximum power without his Ki supply being quickly drained like a Super Saiyan 3.

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is the next stage of a superior Super Saiyan God because it also allows a Saiyan to fight with the power of the Super Saiyan God, but without any sort of time limit handicap.

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I know we have covered a lot of ground so far, but let’s do a quick recap just to be sure we are on the same page.

Saiyan beyond God is the base form of a Saiyan that has now mastered and retained the power of a Super Saiyan God. Any Saiyan that is capable of becoming a Super Saiyan can take their Saiyan beyond God stage to the level of a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

Both of these incarnations of a Saiyan can be considered superior in power to the Super Saiyan God transformation.

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Moving onto GT, although it was never officially stated; Goku in base form is said to be as powerful as he was at the Super Saiyan 3 level in DBZ (specifically in the Buu Saga, not the 10 year gap between the death of Kid Buu and the departure of Goku with Uub).

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This made me cringe as a child when I heard this because I was difficult to believe that Kid Goku (GT) was on par with the Super Saiyan 3 that we had seen fighting with Kid Buu!

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However, most fans associate Goku’s power to Super Saiyan 3 because of his statement to General Rilldo about the Machine Mutant being more powerful than even Majin Buu.

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Goku actually fights on par (and even has the upper hand for a good portion of the fight) with Rilldo, and that is why most fans say he was at the power of a Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku. It is also worth mentioning that this is in reference to Rilldo’s first form, and not his other 2 transformation that make Goku power up to Super Saiyan 1 which makes him 50 times more powerful than before.

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Things can get extremely complicated when thinking about a base form Goku being on par with his Super Saiyan 3 form from DBZ.

Think of it this way:

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Kid Goku (GT) in base form = Super Saiyan 3 Goku from Buu Saga.

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This would mean GT Goku is 400 times the power of base power Goku from the Buu Saga!

What does this mean in terms of the Super Saiyan multipliers when applied to GT Goku?

  • Super Saiyan 1 is 50 times base power
  • Super Saiyan 2 is twice the power of Super Saiyan 1
  • Super Saiyan 3 is four times the power of Super Saiyan 2
  • Super Saiyan 4 is ten times the power of Super Saiyan 3

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Meaning that Super Saiyan 4 Goku in GT is 4,000 times the power of Super Saiyan 3 Goku from the Buu Saga!

Yes, I find this mind blowing as well because it all goes back to what Vegeta from the Team Four Star Abridged series of DBZ said about power levels:

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Alright, at this point the question arises as to which form of Goku would come out on top if Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan met Super Saiyan 4.

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I am willing to bet that in terms of power alone…the winner would be Super Saiyan 4.

Hear me out on this:

We know that Super Saiyan God is more powerful than Super Saiyan 3, but we do not know by how much. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is speculated (and keep in mind that it is not official) to be 50 times the power of a Saiyan beyond God, and this “form” is literally a base form Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God.

Fans speculate Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan to be 50 times the power of a Super Saiyan God.

The reason I feel that Super Saiyan 4 Goku is more powerful is simply because a base form Goku that is equal in power to a Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku is just insane to think about because he gets a 4,000 times power increase at Super Saiyan 4.

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I will say that we do know Saiyan beyond God Goku is more powerful than GT base form Goku.

Why?

It has been said many times that Saiyan beyond Goku is basically Super Saiyan God Goku (just without the drastic change in appearance), and that would mean his power is much higher than Super Saiyan 3 Goku!

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However, if Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is indeed only 50 times the power of Saiyan beyond God (or Super Saiyan God), I feel that it goes without saying that a 50-fold power increase would not be able to matchup to a Super Saiyan 4 GT Goku.

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Super Saiyan GT Goku alone is already 50 times the power of Super Saiyan 3 DBZ Goku, which increases to 100 times as a Super Saiyan 2, and 400 times as a Super Saiyan 3…

I do not think that Super Saiyan God is that much of a power-up when compared to Super Saiyan 3.

If Goku were to fully master his training under Whis in order to become a perfect warrior, he would have an advantage over Super Saiyan 4 Goku.

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Remember that Whis pointed out Goku’s main flaw as being too relaxed in battle, and that leaves him open to attack. This can lead to his defeat by a weaker opponent, and we saw this happen when Sorbet blasted him through the heart with his ring laser!

Can you imagine a Goku that was flawless in combat? True, Super Saiyan 4 is more powerful, but that version of Goku would not have the training of Whis to back him up!

I am keeping “GT Goku” and “Battle of Gods Goku” as separate entities during this fight.

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Some fans are probably reading this and would consider the fight to be over in a matter of seconds! I mean Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku would just need to cut off Super Saiyan 4 Goku’s tail!

Yes, I know that would be a way of ending the fight very quickly. However, who would want to see that as the ending of such an epic battle?

I know that I would not want this battle between Super Saiyans to be over before it begun due to Super Saiyan 4 Goku’s main handicap.

Something else that needs to be taken into consideration is that Super Saiyan 4 and Super Saiyan God/Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan are completely different levels. I mean Super Saiyan 4 seems to fit into the same spectrum as the first 3 Super Saiyan levels.

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However, Super Saiyan God is in a league of its own. It is a being of such divine energy and power that it cannot be sensed by “lesser beings” through the use of a Ki signature. I do not think that this means Super Saiyan God is automatically more powerful than Super Saiyan 4 (because in GT, it is mentioned on more than one occasion by other characters that Goku’s Ki is incredible in the form; meaning “lesser beings” can sense his presence), but it means that it is in a different realm of power.

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Super Saiyan God is a powerful form, but until we are officially given the stats on how much more powerful it is than a Super Saiyan 3; this debate will most likely continue on.

Which form do you think is more powerful?

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52 thoughts on “Dragon Ball Super: Is Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan More Powerful Than Super Saiyan 4?

  1. Austin says:

    I’m sorry, but I have read a lot about people arguing that ss4 and ssG contradict eachother but in BOG Beerus clearly and undoubtably mentions that the power the saiyans us to power up has 0% percent effect on Gods because mortals have no competition against them. When someone becomes A GOD, they’re bodies change dimensions. So the power of Beerus and SSG Goku are on completely different spectrums as in terms of “Messurment” compared to regular super saiyans. Cuz eventually Goku without the power and gifts of a God would eventually die from old age but Gods Do Not. So bassically SS4 is still of normal mortal standing while God: is beyond the humans and alien raises of detecting it, akira put all of the information into the movie to explain why everything is the way that it is. Unquestionable amd that GT regardless of how people react, is not at all tied to the rewritten story into DBS.

    • i never would have thought about it this way haha but i can still see where the other guy was coming from but now that i am actually thinking about it you just technically put an end to it

      • mike says:

        Well think of it this way, which is the only way to really determine gokus power lvl. In RF when fighting gold frieza which has a power lvl of 1.3 million and is stronger then goku. Unless frieza was at 1.3 mil before his gold transformation. However you twist it frieza is stronger then goku and only win because frieza was tapped out. If ss3 was stronger then ssg goku would have fought at that power. So whis at 15 veerus at 10 frieza at 7 goku at 6 makes perfect sense.

    • mastergousau says:

      @Austin …… exactly! the god forms(Super Saiyan God, Saiyan Beyond God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan) are more superior to the human forms(Super Saiyan 1,2,3,4) mainly because the god forms are so superior to the point where they’re all in another dimension where mortals cant even sense them…..i agree with you.

    • Alpha Shenron says:

      Frieza at golden state was never stated to a god state but was giving goku a significant amount of trouble because he unlocked a hidden potential. Gods just cant be senced since thier energy cant be senced by lower beings. Supreme kai is a god of creation but is surpassed by SSJ Goku.

      SSJ4 Goku is stronger than any God. Feats in Gt are haxed

      • Super saiyan god legendary super saiyan 5 gogeto says:

        Kai SEEMS like gods they are not actual gods

      • Whatever says:

        You’re wrong, “Super saiyan god legendary super saiyan 5 gogeto “.

        Gods of Creation have the same standing and “holiness” as Gods of Destruction. They are two sides of the same coin; Sozoshin and Hakaishin, in Japanese. Hell, it has even been stated in-canon that they hold regular meetings.

        That Gods of Creation have been shown to have much weaker fighting abilities is irrelevant. They remain gods.

      • John Wayne says:

        There are no amazing feats in GT. The greatest feats we’ve seen in Super are Goku and Beerus almost destroying the universe with their punches, and Goku moving faster than a guy who can freeze time for .05 seconds.

    • I would believe that ss4 is more powerful because ss god is a story behind dbz gt mean while during rezurrection f goku couldnt even tranform to ss4 that leaves the only possible answer that ss4 is a higher form than ss god because dbz gt is based on more ahead of time during the battle on rezzurection f

      • gage hux says:

        u are so fucking dumb just…. just stop watching dragon ball because gt does NOT even exist nor will it ever thats what erased means and ssgod is way more powerful then ssj4 …… imagine ssj4 trying to fight beerus yeah ssj4 wouldnt stand a chance but on gokus first fight as a ssgod he was on par with him for a time #ssj4isabitch

    • Dylan says:

      Yes. Because Frieza totally didn’t out class Goku until his power started draining -.- .

    • Alexander Shinkle says:

      What I look up so far is that super saiyan god is 500 times more powerful than super saiyan 3

    • Marty says:

      Well I’ll give you the best explained mathematical equation over this using physics and what we know already know from ss4 and the weight of an ant. Ok well the average ant weighs between 1 to 5 mg and the average human weighs about 1 million times the average ant. And beerus flicked goku and really sent him pretty dang far, that would have been far even if he didn’t drag through the ground especially for a flick. But seeing as when goku was in ssg form he at 80 percent of power was fighting Beerus on par at 70% then beerus most certainly would not have been able to do that to him then so you could assume that as your power level rises it also corresponds to your mass raising that or applying to your mass in some way physically. That being said we couldn’t even flick an ant that far without it dragging through the ground. So goku in ss3 was less than an ant is to a human when compared to beerus. Given that Gt Goku in his base form was equal to goku in ss3 in the majin buu period. So we will go ahead and call him equal to the comparison of an ant and human when compared to beerus even though he was less than that. And so ss4 goku is 4000 times as strong as ss3 holy was when beerus flicked him. But you could compare goku in ssg form to beerus as human to human even if goku was weaker even by 10 percent or even more their are humans that are that much stronger then other humans. And since the average human is about 1 million times heavier than the average ant and ss3 goku was less than any ant compared to a human when compared to beerus, then we know goku had to have gotten at least 1 million times stronger in ssg form than he was in ss3 form proving that ssg form is stronger than ss4 form because 1 million is a lot more than 4000. And ss4 is only 10 times stronger than ss3 it’s just that goku from gts base form is supposed to be 400 times stronger than gokus during battle of the gods, until he absorbs the power and uses it in his base form. With ssg form being 1 million times stronger than goku in ss3 at minimum and he’s supposed to be even 50 times stronger than that when in ssgss if you would assume that then he would be 50 million times stronger than supper saiyen 3. And about 20 billion times stronger than base form before getting the powers of ssg and becoming a saiyan beyond God. And 20 billion is a lot stronger than 4000 so the transformation it self is much much stronger but give gt holy that extra 400 times base boost and he becomes 1.6million times stronger then Base form of goku during battle of the gods before he absorbs the power of ssg. That’s about as logical as I can get it it but it’s a bit contradicting considering that he supposedly still isn’t supposed to be able to beat beerus I’m that form when after you do all the math he should… So that’s as logical as I can put. Choose to believe my theory or not it’s up to you.

  2. Keith says:

    “If Beerus (at 70% power) was fighting Super Saiyan God Goku (at 80% power), wouldn’t this imply that Beerus is at best only 10% more powerful than Super Saiyan God Goku?”

    This is purely in terms of percentage points and not absolute power levels. For instance say Goku’s base level is 500,000 then 80% of that is 400,000. If Berus’ base level is 1,000,000 then 70% of that is 700,000. So it would be correct to say that Berus’ is 10 percentage points stronger than Goku but not 10% stronger since we can’t accurately standardize there power in such a way that we can compare “apples with apples.”

    I like everything else you have had to say though

  3. Keith says:

    “If Beerus (at 70% power) was fighting Super Saiyan God Goku (at 80% power), wouldn’t this imply that Beerus is at best only 10% more powerful than Super Saiyan God Goku?”

    This is purely in terms of percentage points and not absolute power levels. For instance say Goku’s base level is 500,000 then 80% of that is 400,000. If Berus’ base level is 1,000,000 then 70% of that is 700,000. So it would be correct to say that Berus’ is 10 percentage points stronger than Goku but not 10% stronger since we can’t accurately standardize their power in such a way that we can compare “apples with apples.”

    I like everything else you have had to say though

  4. Austin says:

    Yeah, everyone is intidled to their own opinions and imaginations so I don’t ever put my two sense into it but I had to wonder how nobody remembered what was said in the new movie considering it was a rewrite “changing everything” that was after the Buu saga. But honestly, with the new script set for the show it seems like a much more bareable and interesting way to continue the show. Nobody in their right mind would write a mager money banking show where goku and vegeta endlessly transform into ss4-ss5- ect.

  5. Sourabh K B says:

    When berus tells that he’s not using his full power(less than 70%). Goku mentions that even he’s holding back and using only 80% power. Then berus gets angry and goku starts using full power. When goku is using full power berus is using 70%
    So therefore 100 % of goku’s power is 70% of berus power

  6. I see SSJ4 as only being x5 that of SSJ3 and SSJG being x10 of SSJ3, so IMO, SSJG would obliterate SSJ4 with not a lot of effort.

  7. mastergousau says:

    I disagree with your opinion BUT i find your analysis very interesting and worth reading!

    In short, I personally think that Super Saiyan God is more powerful than Super Saiyan 4

    My reason is mainly to the fact that the Super Saiyan God form and powers are all in god-mode and godly dimension to the point that when Goku first transformed nobody could sense his power at all like as if there were no difference at all except to notice a physical difference

    To keep it short, I think Super Saiyan 1, 2, 3 and 4 are all human powers and humanly dimension. It’s like a comparison to the contents of the universe and a black hole. The universe contains lots of crazy stuff(like super huge galaxies and stars, crazy radio-waves or super bright lights known as Quasars) BUT nobody knows what is inside a black hole as a black hole is a whole another dimension and so powerful to the point where light cannot escape from it.

    So the Godly transformations(Super Saiyan God, Saiyan Beyond God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan) is like the black hole from my analogy, it’s powers are more superior to that of the Humanly transformations(Super Saiyan 1, 2,3 and 4) to the point where the humanly forms are impossible to have a chance to beat the godly forms. Let alone, the human transformations theoratically can’t even detect a godly transformation’s ki.

    However, i would like to still point out that a Super Saiyan 4’s powers are formidable, and it is not to be messed with easily it might give a Super Saiyan God a few fights where a SS4 won’t be easily flicked by a finger BUT would still ultimately lose to a SSG.

    In conclusion, a Super Saiyan God is more powerful than a Super Saiyan 4 mainly because of its godly dimension of powers which cannot be fathomed by humanly powers. Despite my differed views, I must say that OP’s analysis are very reasoned and intriguing, good post. 🙂

    ps: I’m very sorry if my views offended anyone or anyone thinks that my views are offensively ridiculous to the point where you feel the need to be mean to m views, sorry in advance.

    • Quinn says:

      Black holes are not other dimensions. They are simply massive gravity wells. The “inside” of a black hole, is just a small mass of crushed and condensed mass. A better analogy would be that of dimensions such as 2nd and 3rd. Humans can perceive up to 3 dimensions. (Height, Depth, Width) We cannot, however, perceive or think in the 4th dimension, time. (Meaning that we would just be able to “see” the passage of time, even if there was nothing to look at.” It is the same with Godly ki. It simply isn’t knowable unless you are a god.

  8. Faze says:

    Whis I don’t think is a god, and Vegeta was able to do damage to Beerus without turning into a god, so the Gods not having a power level, I think is telling and that it means that the SSG form and maybe Gods in general like Beerus have a set power limit that can’t be surpassed just like Androids are really powerful but have no power level that can be sensed als note that not even gods can sense other gods power level, I still think DB Super will fit in between DBZ and DBGT and it will be explained, I hope so, and we eventually get a continuation after GT made by Toriyama.

  9. Darthaggro says:

    Meh. I like the people out there fighting to keep ss4 Goku / GT alive but there’s many that simply dislike that show. That being said I think the whole ss4 is 4000X ss3 is out of control. People from all over come up with crazy ways to try and calculate power and I accept that but I think you’re comparing the wrong ss3. You basically have GT Goku a huge edge based off of one fight where one could say was purely bluffs. I could be wrong but I’m going with ssgss out of favoritism but mostly because God define by Akira Toryama would probably trump someone else’s work of his original idea.
    Tl;dr the world loves ssgss Goku for reasons and therefor Is stronger. But ss4 Goku is still awesome.

  10. Jembutiblis says:

    Maybe the reason why GT base Goku were able to become as strong as Z SSJ3 Goku is because he absorb the God Ki.
    Then before the event of GT, he lose the ability to become a SSGSS by some means.

    I Hope the new DB Super series will connect Z & GT instead of ruining it, because personally i love SSJ4 way more than any other Super Saiyan form and dont want it to be trashed.

  11. Dev One says:

    This discussion made me think of Bleach, especially the final fight between ichigo and aizen, where aizen were not able to sense ichigo reatsu letting him assume that ichigo have converted all his reatsu into mere physical strength, and in bleach case it was also a matter of dimension, ichigo had merged with his zanpakouto making him a being beyond shinigami, human and hollow, thus evolving in a completely different dimension.
    Now this exemple is to bring your point to something really key and that beerus stated while explaining the difference between his power compared to mortal beings as human, saiyan powers, in fact godly ki or godly power his on another life spectrum or simply put in another heigher dimension that can not be even experimented by beings on lower dimension, think of it like we humans evolved in a 3 space dimension and now imagine a being evolving in a 4 or even 5 space dimension, this kind of being will be totally ungraspable for us. Or even a much simpler exemple a spiritual being and a human assuming a spirit is on another higher spectrum of life than simple human, no matter how many strength you get as human you can’t do anything to a spirit, this bringing us to say that no matter how many strength a super saiyan 4 get he continue to evolve in a “mortal ki based” world making him unable to defeat beings as beerus or defeating a SSG.

    • Celieza says:

      Except Golden Frieza at full power was beating SSGSS Goku hand over fist and he wasn’t even a god. He was mortal in every way so saying that a mortal can never beat a god in dragon ball universe simply isn’t true.

  12. SparklingMistleTowa says:

    Personally, I think that ssg/ssgss is stronger than ssj4, if only cause the godly ki. Besides, in dbs, you guys saw Beerus destroy half a planet by tapping at a table, and I don’t think even ssj4 can do that. I have a theory that it is possible for mortals to harm godly ki users, like Vegeta/Frieza, but there’s a limit to how much. Gods will always be more powerful than mortals naturally, but by using sheer power, there are those few extraordinarily strong mortals who can still hurt them. But, they can’t truly kill them. When Sorbet hit Goku in the heart with his ring laser, he didn’t just straight out die, like how Vegeta did when Frieza blasted him with his death beam. Gods can be hurt or injured by mortal ki users, but never killed outright. So ssj4 Goku can put up a good fight and hurt ssg Goku, but he won’t be ever be able to kill him. And I don’t want to think about power levels. That stuff only really applied to the Frieza saga, anywhere after that it got completely blurred up. The 50x powerup for the super saiyan transformation was never actually confirmed by Toriyama himself, and same with the rest. All those multipliers are purely fan based, so can’t be used to support any theories in my opinion.

    • Whatever says:

      Kid Buu has been shown to be stronger than every single Creation God from the Sixth Universe. Having “Godly Ki” tells us absolutely nothing about battle prowess.

  13. Tawi says:

    What if what we is is still Beerus’ base form?

  14. David says:

    Sorry but your wrong about goku never using 100% of his super sayian god powers. Goku started off by using 80% of his ssg power and beerus at the time was using a unconfirmed amount. (probably 50%) Then once he heard goku was using 80% beerus turned up to 70. Once goku absorbed the god ki he obviously started using 100% or 70% beerus would have raped him. Did you not see how goku was completely drained at the end, so again it’s obvious he used 100%. I keep telling people beerus was not blood lust in that fight or ssg goku would have died in first 2 min. Beerus was un scratched at the end of the fight and he been in multiple clashes, and tanked false ssgss/ssj(God ki absorbed)goku full power kamehameha. Beerus could have destroyed the earth still after the fight but he didn’t want to because he was intrigued by goku/vegeta potential.

  15. David says:

    sayian beyond God does not equal ssg. Akita said in a interview after battle of gods that ssg goku 6,beerus 10, and whis 15. If sayian beyond God was a 6,ssgss would be 300 which would conflict with the facts we know. We know that ssgss goku can beat beerus at 70% but he would still get raped by 100% beerus. Did you not see how scared shit goku and vegeta was from half sleep beerus’s blast. When goku transforms to ssgss he says he learned how to use the power of a ssg on his own. That indicated similar power,ssgss is slightly stronger. I think sayian beyond God is 1/5 of ssgss. Explains why goku was so confident in his base form. Ssgss is x5 sayian beyond God. And why are we comparing gt goku vs z goku.just compare the forms power boost on a even field, because Gt gave goku a bull shit power increase that would never happen if Akira wrote the story. In battle of gods goku base was still weaker than 100% frieza on namek. That’s 10 years apart and he still coudnt become x10 stronger but toei thinks in 20 years goku could become x400. Hahaha what a fucking joke but any way back to my main point. Beerus beat ssj3 goku effortlessly with 1 percent of his power. Beerus was stated to be more powerful than vegito, Akira said that in a interview before battle of gods and it’s confirmed by goku himself in bog and dbs. They are talking about vegito/gogeta strongest form possible(ssj3)because they weren’t specific on what form of vegito/gogeta.If Gotenks can become ssj3 so can vegito/gogeta. Ssj3 is only x8 ssj so goku would be able to estimate the power of ssj3 vegito/gogeta. When goku became a ssg he said he never knew a realm like this existed, again confirming ssg goku>>>>ssj3 vegito/gogeta. In my analysis ssg is 1 million x base. It’s called God for a reason guy. I hate to bring this up but get perfect files says super vegito is about the same power as ssj4 goku. Ssgss>ssg>>> sayian beyond God > ssj4

  16. Michel says:

    nlike its predecessor, Super Saiyan God, this form can be used at any time and has no apparent time limit as seen by Goku and Vegeta transforming into this form during their battle with Frieza. The form exceedingly surpasses its predecessor, Super Saiyan God, and all of the other Saiyan forms.[3]

    from wiki read it first…

    • josiah says:

      I say god base is 1 billion . Pre crysis superman is 50 billion and this goku should be able to take him . Also beerus and whis have very high levels if they actually had power levels . Whatever though beerus is only barely stronger than goku he isn’t faster by any means . Assuming he has no.power level and is a god I would have to say 1 billion base . Normal frezia waa 530k back on namek so god goku must be 2000 times stronger or so .

  17. Sicus says:

    I’ve left this same sort of comment before but there is not only no comparison in the concepts (IE SSG is literally a god) but even as separate entities SSG is implied to be significantly more powerful. In the movie goku mentions that he doesn’t even think fusing would work against him. This could be vegito or gogeta, but the only canon fusion has been vegito. In the Daizenshuu’s it is stated that vegito’s power “May be even greater than that of a super saiyan 4” so SS Vegito>= SS4 goku, and I dont doubt this, vegito toyed wtih buu in his base form. And goku felt confident that he could win with SSG. And this doesnt even take into consideration the power difference between Buu saga and BoG, for all we know it could be he already has similar powers to GT goku which would make vegito immensely more powerful or hell maybe vegito could even use more saiyan forms but that is mere speculation, but lets just assume he stayed the same strength and vegito is only able to use SS. So the only logical conclusion would be that since SS Vegito >= SS4 goku , and since it is implied that SSG>Vegito, then SSG>SS4. You could argue feats but they are never consistant.
    *TL;DR*
    SSG>SSvegito>=ss4

  18. josiah says:

    I have been a dbz fan since I was 11 years old. I have seen all 276 episodes and all movies I’m 27 now. I’ve seen dragonball and z and gt .. honestly base form super saiyan god will beat ssj4 because as beerus states he has no ki and goku can’t sense his power . Beerus blew up a planet with a flick . Goku toyed with frezia . Whis says goku can almost take beerus and if they fuse they Would be unstoppable watch the movie . If they fuse beerus is done and maybe whis too . They are in search for big dragonball the creater said . Honestly this goku is the strongest form yet and he hasn’t begun to show us . Hopefully they bring in gogeta in the Manga and show us real power. He was only seen in movie with janemba and he’s amazing . Love the blue hair

  19. akira_loki says:

    i think SSJ4 is way cooler than SS God or SS God Super Saiyan (that blue hair is just pure lameness and laziness). Plus, the SSG or SSGSS doesnt display the ruthless persona of a fighter like SSJ3 or 4 had. In terms of power level, its true that the power of ordinary being and god is not the same, but remember, vegeta when mad manage to land a hit on beerus and withstand Beerus pucnh on his cheek. Come on, i think the difference is only the type of power whether its mortal being or god. But strength is strength. It doesnt matter what type of lifeform are you.

    • josiah says:

      That’s not true at all. Goku couldn’t land a punch on beerus and vegeta did no damage even if beerus wasn’t paying attention vegeta can’t do damage . Why did you mention strength ? Goku can’t even sense beerus strength and super saiyan ki doesn’t affect gods. Ssj4 couldn’t damage beerus so god form automatically win . Complete bs that ssj4 would be better when he would die in 1 hit to beerus and god form can fight 1v1 endless with beerus. Remember the creator said ssgsss is the strongest form made so I disagree with everything you stated which is opinion Dbz is not based on speed ability and tactics not strength which you mentioned . It does matter what life form like I said gods don’t have strength levels or power levels they have speed ability and skills and tactics so ssgsss wins easy

    • josiah says:

      Realise couple things . Ssj3 goku was buff couldn’t detect beerus movement . Knocked ssj3 goku out with a flick. Next goku took his ssj3 +ssj2 vegeta+mystic gohan+Ssj trunks +Ssj goten which is like ssj8 when you say ssj4 is better are you deceiving yourself thinking that form can handle a ssj8 goku also known as ssgsss? Why would you think a hairy goku with a tail could even possibly stand a chance? You didn’t give any factual reasons . Gokus god form has so many positives compared to ssj4 along with being way more powerful I don’t see at all how ssj4 is cooler or better since gt isn’t cannon and everyone hated it including the creator and the guy who made gt himself . They regret making the horrible gt saga.

  20. josiah says:

    Why would ssj3 goku ssj2 vegeta gohan trunks and goten which is basically 3+2+2+1+1=9 ssj9 be weaker than ssj4? Can any of you people please explain how you defend simple math. You think a ssj4 could take a god goku or let say ssj9 please people. Anyone who choose a ssj4 is delusional . God goku can hurt gods ssj4 can’t either and the power inside ssg goku is 2x that of his ssj4 . Simple math people .

  21. Keezy says:

    Anyone who thinks ssj4 is stronger than any ssg is dumb because if beerus took out ssj3 going 1% then ssj4 wouldnt stand a change. Lets use this example, goku goes ssj4 and vegeta goes ssgss (didnt use ssg bc no one ever seen vegeta in ssg) goku is basically asking vegeta to kill him because mortal saiyan ki cant “kill” gods.. Just to be clear they can hurt them but cant possibly kill them so vegeta would kill goku but even the creators know that ssgss is the strongest form so far

    If saiyan gods have transformations doesnt that why doesnt beerus. Maybe beerus has a transformation because he only went 70% on goku so theres a possibility he has a transformation but theres no way whis could have a transformation unless hes a god also which he has never state, he only stated that hes the only kind of his race but in dbs another guy showed up that looked like him so maybe he isnt the inly kind of his race which means maybe he couldnt be a god and doesnt have a tranformation but he also stated that hes the fasted being in the universe with means burter wasnt (well ofcourse burter wasnt 😂)

    What if goku unlocked something beyond ssgss like ssgss2 and higher, that would make him even with beerus because whis said that if he and vegeta (two ssgss which would equal ssgss2) teamed up to fight beerus that they could most likely beat him so if goku managed to reach ssgss2 he could face beerus alone and if he reached ssgss3 maybe he could even match up with whis but i personally think they will reach ssgss3 because no one knows whats in store for us with dbz in the future

  22. Andy says:

    Well, the whole thing does not make sense. Goku before him becoming SS would easily stop energy beam from a gun. And then… SSGSS which is supposedly a zillion times more powerful than normal Goku, easily got wounded by a simple gun beam. That gun beam at worst would be only like the sneak shot Piccolo took in the last Piccolo vs Goku Tenkaichi Budokai. So SSGSS is just as vulnerable as pre-SS Goku? Heck, not even pre-SS, it’s even pre-Vegeta and pre-Kaioken. The whole thing is just too screwed up.

  23. Logan Booker says:

    Just imagine.Instead of goku`s base power level(from GT)being at SSJ3 goku,lets use goku from BOG(Battle of Gods).When Goku was fighting Beerus,Beerus won by hitting goku effortlessly with 2 blows,but if you used SSJ4 goku,its a different story.Beerus will still easily overpower goku(if he had SSJ4 in BOG)with 2 or 3 blows.Then,if you watched the fight with SSJ god goku against Lord Beerus,Beerus was still winning,but was only using 50-70 percent of his power,while goku was only using 80 percent of his power.Beerus had to give SSJ god goku a lot more blows to finish him off in the movie,but still won.COMPARASON TIME!!!!!!Beerus against SSJ4 goku(what if)was a winner in the fight,and was not proud of goku,but with SSJ god goku,he was proud of goku(despite goku losing).So,SSJ god is a lot stronger than SSJ4 goku.(GT Goku explanation if saying that SSJ4 Goku is stronger).

  24. John Doe says:

    If Beerus used max 10 procent against Vegeta, thats means he used between 1 to 9 procent against ssj3 goku. Lets say 1 procent. That means Beerus is at max 100 times more powerfull than Ssj3 Goku. Akira said Beerus is 10 and Goku is 6. So ssj god Goku is 60 here. Now if the rule is 50 times stronger in ssj god ssj, goku is at minimum 3000 stronger than ssj3. By powerlevel ssj4 wins because of the 4000 times stronger. But keep in mind ssj3 goku in Bog is stronger dan in Buu saga.

  25. Aravind says:

    I think you guys haven’t watched GT very closely. SSJ4 also has a time limit. This is shown when goku was evacuating everyone from Earth and during his final fight with omega Shenron. ssgss doesn’t have a restricted time limit. If both these characters were put to the test ssgss will best ssj4.

  26. Daniel Selecao says:

    Saying SSJ 4 Goku is more powerful than SSJG Goku is just plain and utter stupidity because

    a• If ssj 4 is ssjg than that means people like super 17 and omega shenron are way more powerful than ssjg because even being ssj4 goku struggled to defeat them…

    b• Plus how in any logic is a mortal form ( ssj4 ) more powerful than a godly form ( ssjg ) …

    c• And this is where is gets interesting…

    If by some unthinkable way ssj4 is more powerful than ssjg than that means ssj4 can most probably beat Beerus ( or Bills or whatever u wish to name him ) so ssj4 could defeat Beerus making villains like Omega Shenron, Super 17 and Baby stronger than the God of Destruction by default…

    Think about it

  27. ????? says:

    The whole fucking movie/anime, is based on bullshit. You can only optain god ki when 4 saiyans put there power into one. But vegeta did it whitout that. Only a god can sense god ki… how could HIT sense goku,s god ki kaioken x10? Dont say maybe hes a god! even the red gay whit the big tits could sense it (monako?). Sorry if my english wasnt correct.

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