By Jeremy Carden
If Goku and Vegeta did a battle to the end before their training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber who would win?
In the Android Saga, Vegeta finally ascended to the status of Super Saiyan in an attempt to close the gap between him and Goku proving that he is the most powerful Saiyan. However, we never got to see if Vegeta truly was the superior Super Saiyan.
At the time of his ascension, the Z-Fighters were training for the Android threat that Trunks told them about. When Vegeta did return to Earth from his training in outer space it wasn’t good timing because Goku was in the middle of his battle with Android 19.
Goku was suffering from his heart virus and near death when Vegeta saved him from Android 19. The next time we see Goku back on his feet was after Cell first appeared and began his hunt for humans to absorb before confronting the Androids.
From there he, Gohan, Vegeta and Trunks went into the Time Chamber for training. After Vegeta and Trunks emerged, it was clear that Vegeta was more powerful than Goku. Then when Gohan and Goku emerged, Goku once again surpassed the Saiyan Prince at the level of Full Power Super Saiyan.
However, we never get to see who was more powerful before the Time Chamber Training.
What makes this battle somewhat difficult to evaluate is that we do not know how powerful Goku was prior to his heart virus. Remember he did train for three years with Piccolo and Gohan. At the time of the Android Saga, Goku was only seen fighting while he was sick so even during the battle with Android 19 his power was dropping.
During their first fight on earth it was clear that Vegeta was more powerful until Goku started using the Kaio-Ken at multiple levels but Vegeta overall was more powerful than Goku after turning into a Great Ape.
While fighting in the Buu Saga at Super Saiyan 2, they were dead even
Of course meaning as regular Super Saiyans they were equal as well
Even as Super Saiyan 4s in DBGT it seems they are even (but I discuss why they are not in this blog).
However it still remains unknown which one of them would win in the Android Saga…
There are a few areas that need to be looked at in order to give a fair evaluation:
Hands down the award for superior marital artist is Goku. This low-class Saiyan (as Vegeta would say) had trained in many forms of combat from his mentors that ranged Master Roshi to King Kai. Not to mention the unseen training he received on Yadrat before returning to earth after his battle with Frieza. After returning he said that he only had time to learn ONE technique on Yadrat which was the Instant Transmission. Not only that he learned how to transform into a Super Saiyan at will rather than only in moments of extreme rage or anger like the Hulk.
Vegeta is a good fighter but his techniques are more brutal and sometimes he fights dirty. That is probably why I love watching him fight more than Goku.
In preparation for the Android battle, Vegeta trained in 450x gravity which was almost 5x the gravity that Goku trained in on his way to Namek. This was prior to his transformation into a Super Saiyan demonstrating how he (like Goku) can excel in rough conditions improving his skills.
Vegeta never really had a mentor or fighting instructor like Goku had. His father in flashbacks is shown teaching Vegeta about the Saiyans in terms of how they dominate planets for sale and send their offspring to other planets. In the Bardock special, we see him easily taking down Saibamen in a training center but after that is sent off on special missions for Frieza along with Nappa and eventually Raditz. Most of his training has been solo but the end result increases his power greatly.
Now the reason for this draw is because even though Goku has had more training from different masters, Vegeta has trained in harsher conditions. Not to jump ahead to the durability section, but I feel that Vegeta would be able to handle whatever Goku threw at him. With Goku’s abilities as a combat specialist, I think that he can endure, block or counter Vegeta’s techniques. So in a way they kind of cancel each other out with Vegeta’s 450x gravity training exceeding Goku’s training at 100x gravity.
Keep in mind that Vegeta spent 3 YEARS first training at 150x gravity before ending with 450x gravity while Goku only spent 6 days going from 20x to 100x gravity.
Again in Goku’s case, having multiple styles of martial arts at his disposal thanks to training with many masters equips him with what he needs to deal with Vegeta’s brute force tactics.
First off, we are eliminating Instant Transmission from this category because it’s well instant. Remember it is a technique in Goku’s arsenal but it is a technique NOT his natural speed.
I feel that Vegeta training at 450x gravity was much more intense than Goku’s training with Piccolo and Gohan in earth’s normal gravity.
Both of them are incredibly fast! Gravity training is very brutal on the body but after mastering the intense conditions both of them raised their power AND speed tremendously. After completing his training at 100x gravity Goku mentions that he felt light as a feather.
Winner: Vegeta BUT…
It depends on whether or not his body was once again used to Earth’s normal gravity.
Considering his gravity training was more than Goku’s I’m sure that he was much faster. Now the reason I have room to doubt is because of his training in outer space. Right before he turned Super Saiyan, Vegeta was blasting a barrage or meteors coming down on the planet that he was on in order to save his spaceship. When one final rock came his way, he said that it took everything that he had and more in order to blow it to bits.
He mentions that training at 450x gravity put a toll on his body and he hadn’t gotten used to normal gravity again by the time that giant meteor was headed his way. I’m guessing the huge drop of pressure on his body was too much and that was why he almost died trying to blow up the rock and got caught in the explosion. Vegeta even says that “normally” it would have been child’s play to blow up that rock.
So, we don’t know when this takes place because if it was very close to the arrival of the Androids I’m unsure if Vegeta’s body was once again used to normal gravity. However, going Super Saiyan probably helped to adjust any “complications” Vegeta had getting used to normal gravity conditions by earth’s standards I mean.
If that is the case then I don’t think that anything was wrong with his speed. I guess the evidence came in the form of him easily dodging all of #19’s attacks with minimal effort.
Now if Vegeta DID recover from his 450x gravity by the time of the battle with the Androids then this point goes to him.
I have no doubt in my mind that Vegeta is the more durable fighter. The reason I am quick to say that is because of he and Goku’s gravity training.
After training at 100x gravity during his trip to Namek, Goku said that he was now powerful enough to handle a 10x Kaio-Ken. During his battle with Vegeta, Goku could handle a Kaio-Ken at level 1 or 2 with ease. However, when he turned up the heat to a 3x Kaio-Ken his body began to pay the toll. Not to mention he needed to go up to level 4 to overpower the Galick Gun leaving Goku in an exhausted state. When he was caught in a tight spot during the battle with Frieza he was able to use a 20x Kaio-Ken and launch a 20x Kamehameha Wave that didn’t leave in a condition like he was after using the 4x Kaio-Ken against Vegeta.
We can determine that Goku was not only more powerful due to his gravity training but also his body was more durable. Using the Kaio-Ken requires the body to be in a condition where it can handle the toll that the technique delivers on the body.
With that in mind, Vegeta trained in far harsher conditions in order to surpass Goku. He wanted to train in 300x gravity for starters and by the end of his training he had mastered his training at 450x gravity which is just about 5x the intensity of Goku’s gravity training.
I’m not saying that Goku can’t take a beat down because he’s been in some brutal battles in the series. However, I’m going to have to insist on Vegeta being the Saiyan who can take a beat down and continue fighting.
*Except for Frieza because the tyrant pretty much destroyed his spine with merciless blows to the Saiyan’s back*
The Super Saiyan transformation boosts all of a Saiyan’s stats (which includes durability) meaning Vegeta should be able to handle whatever Goku dishes out.
At this point of the series, it is clear that both Saiyans had a variety of moves in their arsenal.
Goku’s best attack is the Super Kamehameha because I don’t think he’d use an Angry Kamehameha. I don’t know why I think him using it on Frieza was a onetime thing as opposed to the many times he used the Super Kamehameeha on opponents after the fight on Namek.
While Vegeta’s best attack would be his Big Bang Attack
Aside from destructive Ki attacks and brutal fighting moves, Vegeta doesn’t have that much to offer in terms of skills to power him up or throw his opponent through hoop like Goku has in his arsenal.
The Instant Transmission technique gives Goku a huge advantage. Being able to dodge attacks, launch attacks from different angles and surprise Vegeta gives him an edge.
Now you are probably wondering: What about the Warp Kamehameha?
This wasn’t introduced in the series until his fight with Perfect Cell but I don’t think that he wouldn’t use it here. It doesn’t seem like a technique that he trained to use, I think Goku just made it up on the spot to take Cell by surprise. Kind of like how Vegeta used the Final Flash to catch Cell off guard by taunting him into taking the full force of the blast. With that in mind, I’m sure that Goku would probably “develop” the attack during his fight with Vegeta.
Remember Goku poured most of his power into the attack and Cell even says that it is more than enough power to destroy the earth if he launches if from his position in the sky. Goku most likely planned on that being the move to KILL Cell but it didn’t work.
Again this is a fight to the end between Goku and Vegeta in this scenario. If Goku DID use the Warp Kamehameha on Vegeta with that much power then I do see him winning. Most likely due to Vegeta not being able to regenerate like Cell can.
The Solar Flare is also a technique that would give Goku a leg up to stun Vegeta just long enough to get in a powerful attack. So Goku in my opinion has more techniques that would disorient his opponent.
And no I don’t think he’d use the Spirit Bomb because of 2 reasons:
1. It takes WAY too long to charge up and I doubt Vegeta would just sit there while Goku gathers energy. I know he let Cell turn Perfect, did nothing while Frieza transformed and so on but the Spirit Bomb takes too long. I know the duration of one Solar Flare in the Saiyan Saga was enough for Goku to get the Ki needed to form a bomb on Great Ape Vegeta but I doubt Goku could gather enough Ki to take out a Super Saiyan near his own power in only a minute or two
2. This is a fight between Super Saiyans and one must have a pure heart to form the attack. Goku had not reached Full Power Super Saiyan yet in the Android Saga meaning that he was still transforming into an untamed level of power where his heart is somewhat corrupted by the power and his own Saiyan instincts. I know he used transformed in Super Android 13 but it was only after he had already formed the bomb and he simply absorbed the Ki instead of launching it. No doubt if he did that Vegeta would be done for in an instant.
Could Goku use the Kaio-Ken as a Super Saiyan?
Remember he was dead and in the Otherworld when he used this in his battle with Pikkon. He used the technique making his power as a Full Power Super Saiyan double basically making him power up to a Super Saiyan 2 power level. However, he only was at that power for a couple of seconds. Afterwards, he was almost completely exhausted. Keep in mind that a dead body uses less Ki than a living one meaning that if Goku was that exhausted while dead I don’t think his living body back in the Android Saga could handle that much power at once. Again let’s forget about him absorbing the Spirit Bomb in the movie since that was a different scenario.
With no official power levels being recorded after Trunks’ power of 5 on the Scouter of one of Frieza’s men, I cannot give out numbers on this.
Considering that Goku was stronger than he was on Namek and Vegeta is more or less even with him then we can conclude that both have power levels higher than 150 million which was Goku’s power on Namek.
If you ask me we don’t see Goku OR Vegeta at 100% during the Android Saga.
Goku was only seen punching Android #20 in the face and fighting with Android #19. However, his power was decreasing as the battle went on due to the heart virus taking its toll.
The only time we see him actually up and about was right after he woke up and pulled a Krillin: standing outside of Kame House shooting Kamehameha Waves in the ocean. We don’t know if he got a Zenkai from the near death virus that had him in bed for 10 days and even if he did then we don’t know how much his power was boosted. Obviously it was not much because if he did get a boost then he would not have been so anxious to ascend past a Super Saiyan to combat the Androids and Cell.
I’m relying on Piccolo for this category because of 2 reasons:
1. When Goku transformed to fight #19, Tien was shocked at his power but Piccolo showed no sign of being surprised at the Ki Goku was giving off. That could be because he was much stronger as a training partner for Goku than Gohan was and I bet that Goku trained with Piccolo as a Super Saiyan.
Being easily able to defeat Android #20, Krillin mentions that Piccolo was probably as strong as a Super Saiyan. This statement made Vegeta sarcastically say “Right…” I mean Piccolo’s huge boost in power over the 3 years could not have come unless he had a strong opponent to spar and train with. In that case, Piccolo had already been in the presence of Goku when he was at his maximum so he had no reason to be surprised when he went Super Saiyan.
His calm demeanor was a huge difference from his reaction to Goku going Super Saiyan after Trunks asked him to. He was just as surprised as everyone else witnessing Goku going Super Saiyan for the first time in front of them.
2. After Vegeta ate a Senzu Bean and flew off in search of #20, Gohan asked if Vegeta was more powerful than his dad. Piccolo states that Vegeta might actually be more powerful than Goku is. Again, I’m pretty sure that Piccolo is comparing Goku at his prime (during their training) not based on his performance against #19 while he was being drained by the virus.
Later on after easily losing to #17 and #18, Tien tells Trunks that he is one of the most powerful guys that he has ever met before but he was taken out in one blow by those Androids even as a Super Saiyan. He goes even further saying that Goku is strong but even so he couldn’t see how he could be that much stronger than Trunks OR Vegeta.
Kami even says that Vegeta as a Super Saiyan was tossed around like a rag-doll and even if Goku recovers from his illness in order to help he’d provide little resistance against these powerful new foes.
In terms of Vegeta not fighting at 100% during the Android Saga here is why:
1. Willingly letting himself lose Ki to #19 was again to confirm that Androids do absorb Ki through their hands. Not only that, Vegeta was able to toss around the overweight Android with no trouble at all so there was really no need for Vegeta to fight at his maximum.
2. Against #18, it was clear that Vegeta lost that battle with both arms broken along with his pride. He let his anger get the best of him due to #18’s insults and he was fighting sloppy making it difficult to see what he was TRULY capable of.
So even though we never get any clear confirmation as to who was more powerful, we can assume that if one was indeed more powerful than the other then the gap between the two would be minimal. I think we can agree that Trunks ranks at #3 just ahead of Piccolo but right behind Goku and Vegeta who in my mind are the Top 2 Z-Fighters at that point: until Kamiccolo jumps to #1.
I’m going with Vegeta just because I think that gravity training raised his power quite a bit. The time he spent in those rough conditions really did a lot for him. But again even if Vegeta IS more powerful he isn’t that much more powerful than Goku. So in their battle every attack would count since it takes up precious Ki.
You are probably thinking how training in 450x gravity only made the difference between their powers only “a bit” different from each other.
Need I remind you of Goten and Trunks?
Trunks was training at 150x gravity with Vegeta before the World Tournamet. He was struggling just to walk BUT he was standing. Later on he is seen doing over 9000 one handed pushups.
Well like his father he was doing finger pushups but hey like father like son right?
After showing his dad that he could easily go Super Saiyan and was jumping around 150x gravity like it was nothing, he says that he is “a bit” stronger than Goten.
Goten on the other hand did not train in increased gravity until he and Trunks enter the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and even then he doesn’t seem fazed by the increased gravity. This is most likely because he saw Super Buu kill Chi-Chi while he was watching and that determination erased any signs of him feeling the strain of 10x gravity.
Goten trained first with Chi-Chi and then with Gohan (who most likely only fought/trained with Goten as a Super Saiyan and not a Super Saiyan 2) while Trunks trained with Super Saiyan Vegeta in the gravity room.
One main reason for their gap in power is that Goten was a year younger than Trunks (which is a much smaller age gap than there is between Goku and Vegeta) not to mention the two were able to easily go Super Saiyan unlike their fathers but still I think it is a valid comparison.
Goku trained with Gohan and then was able to use more power training with Piccolo while Vegeta trained solo in 450x gravity.
So, we can conclude that even if Vegeta trained in increased gravity he wouldn’t have surpassed Goku by that much if he did indeed surpass him as a Super Saiyan.
Goku is a fighting genius and takes huge gambles with his body/energy and they usually pay off for him. Most likely due to his willpower and never give up spirit that just makes him a better fighter as a result. However that is just about it when it comes to Goku’s brains because he fights with a level head and thinks outside of the box which is a good counter for Vegeta.
Vegeta is more deceptive and cunning than Goku. After #20 flew off in fear, Piccolo stated that Vegeta is nearly unbeatable not only in combat but in psychological warfare as well. The reason being that #19 sucked A LOT of Vegeta’s Ki during their fight due to Vegeta willing letting it happen to confirm that they absorb Ki through their hands.
Not to mention the large amount of Ki he used to blow #19 up with the Big Bang Attack. There is no doubt that Vegeta was exhausted but his taunt worked. He powered down from Super Sayian and started jeering #20 to attack him while he had the chance since the fight with #19 left him weakened. Instead of attacking, #20 took the bait and ran for the cliffs with Vegeta in hot pursuit. Piccolo even states that if #20 had attacked Vegeta then he would have won.
Much later in the Fusion Saga during the fight between Buuhan and Super Vegito, King Yemma tells Baba that Vegeta is smart and a better tactician than Goku.
I’m sure during the battle Goku would be able to get the upper hand on Vegeta by digging deep to overpower him but when it comes to brainpower the winner is…
As mentioned above, Goku gets excited in the midst of battle. He has said time and time again that the stronger his opponent the stronger he fights and that battle excitement brings out the best in him.
Goku would not want to fight unless his opponent was at his best and I’m sure he and Vegeta would fight at their max from the beginning so I’m not guessing Vegeta would take a long time going to 100% like Frieza did during his fight with Goku.
But remember this is a “death battle” so forget about Goku showing mercy on Vegeta.
Vegeta on the other hand would have an attitude of giving it 110% because THIS is the moment that he has been waiting for! He had finally gained the level of Super Saiyan and this battle would be his chance to finally regain his place as the Prince of All Saiyans and the most powerful Saiyan.
Just like his battle with Super Saiyan 2 Goku in the Babidi Saga, Vegeta would not be holding back.
Now here is where Vegeta might lose:
Going Super Saiyan does more than increase power and speed it does something to their personality as well (at least until they learn to control it better like Goku and Gohan did mastering Full Power Super Saiyan). See in base form Vegeta is proud, prideful and stubborn and going Super Saiyan makes him even more hotheaded and irrational than before.
Piccolo mentions that since he became a Super Saiyan, Vegeta’s ego has been out of control and losing to a woman (#18) did more than hurt his body it hurt his spirit and pride.
I could actually see him winning and have Goku exactly where he wants him but his pride wouldn’t allow him to simply kill Goku. He’d probably give one of his famous monologues instead of finishing Goku off allowing Goku to find an opening for a counterattack.
He felt cheated that a low-class was the first to reach the legendary status of Super Saiyan instead of him due to his royal heritage and bloodline. Seriously, Vegeta cannot let anything go especially a matter involving his ego and he would give Goku an earful of pride instead of getting the job done.
*Seeing them work together in combat*
The only time that we see these two actually fighting side by side was in the movie The Return of Cooler. At first Vegeta was fighting solo not even caring if he blasted Goku or not. Then they worked together to destroy one Meta-Cooler before they were overtaken by 1,000 of them.
It is difficult to say who was stronger because:
1. This was a movie not canon but still a good fight in my book
2. Goku had been fighting much longer so no doubt his Ki was a bit depleted by the time Vegeta showed up.
Similar to being choked by #19 and having his life force drained from him
Goku was being chocked by Meta-Cooler before Vegeta showed up and saved him with a kick to the opponent’s face just like he did against #19
3. The only time they worked together was when they charged into Cooler busting him into pieces before Vegeta blasted him away
And the winner is…
With a score of 4 to 2 (not including the draw) Vegeta comes out on top. There are a lot of factors that come into play during the breakdown of their battle so I did my best to look at every possible advantage and disadvantage. Even though Vegeta got the most points, that doesn’t mean that it wouldn’t be a close battle.
What do you think; would Goku win by an upset or does Saiyan Prince still reign supreme?