Dragon Ball Z: Kid Gotenks vs. Adult Gotenks

By Jeremy Carden

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Gotenks is one of the most powerful fighters in the history of the Dragon Ball franchise. This is very impressive considering the fact that he was only a child when he was “born” through the fusion of 7-year-old Goten and 8-year-old Trunks.

Sadly, we never got to see Gotenks appear in the Dragon Ball GT series; despite the fact that there were MANY opportunities for him to appear in order to fight powerful enemies.

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Fans were excited to see that “Adult Gotenks” appeared in the Japan-only arcade game called Dragon Ball Heroes. Despite the fact that it is not counted as being canon when compared to the DBZ manga, it does not matter because it has given fans a character that they have wanted to see since the end of the DB series.

It is not clear how powerful Gotenks would be as an adult and this has caused some division among fans. Some fans consider the Gotenks seen in the Majin Buu arc to be more powerful than a Gotenks formed through the fusion of an adult Goten and Trunks. This is because Goten and Trunks slacked off in their training after Kid Buu was killed with the Super Spirit Bomb.

There are a few factors that need to be examined before making a final decision, but I am going to say upfront that I believe an Adult Gotenks would be able to defeat Kid Gotenks!

People who say that Kid Gotenks would be more powerful usually jump to this conclusion based on the fact that Goten and Trunks trained much more as children than they did as adults. However, you must realize that they really didn’t train much at all as children when you really think about it.

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Go back to the Buu Saga; the “end” of their training took place when the boys spent 30 minutes inside of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to train for their fight against Super Buu. 30 minutes on the outside world equates to 7.5 days inside of the chamber. So the boys got in a good week of training before fighting Buu.

Looking at their training before that, the boys really didn’t do all that much…

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Trunks was 8-years-old and I bet that Vegeta had not been training with Trunks for too long before the Great Saiyaman Saga. While Super Saiyan Vegeta was training in 150 times gravity, we saw base Trunks struggling to walk around. Vegeta scoffs at his son saying that 150 times gravity was a man’s training level and Trunks was still a boy.

Trunks shocks him by going Super Saiyan and starts running around in the intense gravity with ease. Now we can assume that this was not the first time that Trunks had transformed because when Vegeta asked him if Goten could also go Super Saiyan, Trunks said that he could.

So we don’t know exactly when and how he first transformed, but it might have been when he was training in the Gravity Room during a solo session. Another scenario would have been during one of Goten and Trunks “play fighting” matches out in the woods near Goten’s house.

Remember Goten said that sometimes when Bulma would come to visit Chi-Chi, he and Trunks would go out into the woods and spar. It could have been during this time that Trunks transformed into a Super Saiyan, but we cannot be sure. In any case, we do know that Trunks had been training with Vegeta for a least a little while.

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Bulma says that Vegeta planned on making Trunks more powerful than Gohan which surprises the Saiyan/Human hybrid because he has been slacking off in his training for about 7 years! With that being said, I think that Vegeta might have been training Trunks for at least a year or so. He might be the Prince of Saiyans, but I doubt that Bulma would allow her son to train under the intense conditions that her husband did until he was at least at age 6 or 7.

Considering that Trunks was struggling to keep up with his father in 150 times gravity, we can possibly assume that when Vegeta actually trained with Trunks (something he did not do with Future Trunks…), the two did not train at such an intense gravity level.

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Vegeta was probably doing a solo session, but Trunks wanted to train under the same conditions as his father. With that being said, Vegeta didn’t train Trunks under such intense levels until he learned that not only was his son able to go Super Saiyan but that Trunks was only stronger than Goten “by a bit.” Another thing to remember is that while he was in the Time Chamber with Goten, Trunks tripped over himself as soon as he got into the area of the chamber that was 10 times gravity! Either he was just caught off-guard or he really hadn’t done too much gravity training himself! It is interesting to note that Goten was putting in work while he was training along and that was what made Trunks rush out to join him!

The way Vegeta reacted to that news might have hinted that he increased Trunks’ training (as well as his own) but we don’t know by how much. It seems that after learning about Goku being brought back from the dead for a day, Vegeta was excited and began training more than ever to fight his old rival.

Unlike Trunks, Goten had two training partners; Gohan and Chi-Chi. However, it could be argued that Trunks’ training was more beneficial because Vegeta was far more skilled than Goten’s instructors.

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While Gohan was studying, Chi-Chi was teaching Goten about basic martial arts and combat skills. It was during this time that Goten transformed into a Super Saiyan for the first time, but did not do so for awhile (at least in front of his mom) because she called him a monster. It stands to reason that during one of his sparring fights with Trunks, he revealed his ability to go Super Saiyan. That would explain how Trunks knew about Goten’s ability to transform just like him.

Moving onto when Gohan starts training his little brother, we see Goten getting more advanced training in terms of speed, reflexes, combat and Ki control including flight.

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The main thing holding Goten back was the fact that Gohan was splitting his time between training him and Videl. While she was around, he and Goten were holding back A LOT in terms of power along with their Super Saiyan abilities. After she would leave in the evening, the two would finally have time to go full force in their training.

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If all of their time was devoted to full-on Super Saiyan training like they did prior to Videl training with them then Goten might have been more powerful than he was in the World Tournament.

Now regardless of the level of training that the two endured before the tournament, the end result was that Trunks was just a tad bit stronger than Goten. The first piece of evidence was due to the fact that Trunks was 1 year older than Goten and that naturally made him a bit more powerful than his best friend.

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After that, the two squared off in the finals of the Junior Division of the tournament in an impressive match. It was clear that these two were very similar to their fathers in terms of combat. Trunks is the one with superior skills and a much more polished fighting style doing whatever it takes to win. Goten is more of an off-the-wall tactician and that keeps opponents more powerful than himself on their toes.

In the end, Trunks wins by “breaking the rules” that he himself set during the match; not going Super Saiyan, only using one hand or not using Ki attacks. 

He actually did all 3 of these things and that knocked Goten out of bounds!

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This kind of mirrors what Majin Vegeta did to Goku by saying that their match would be placed on hold, but “defeated” Goku with a sneak attack from behind.

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From there, the boys learned the Fusion Dance from Goku and Piccolo before going in the Time Chamber for their week of training. Their power levels did not go up too high because they were only in there for a week. However, after their training it became unclear which one of them was more powerful.

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Prior to the Time Chamber, Trunks was just a tad bit more powerful than Goten. However, the fact that Chi-Chi’s death at the hands of Super Buu (or foot because he squashed her after transforming her into an egg) took place while Goten was watching, that was the motivation that he needed in order to train more than ever to avenge her death. With that being said, we are not given any information in terms of who is stronger post-training, but we do know that they became more powerful than they were before.

Let’s take a look at their training post-Buu Saga;

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Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return! takes place 2 years after the defeat of Kid Buu. When fighting the two members of Frieza’s army, Vegeta points out that Trunks was forgetting the basics. Later on during the battle, the boys fuse but fail on their first attempt saying that they were out of practice. This shows that they were not training as much for the past 2 years.

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Fast forward 3 years later and we get to Battle of Gods. There is not too much focus on Goten and Trunks because they get a spanking from Bills as Super Gotenks and are quickly rendered unable to battle. Despite being preteens, the boys haven’t aged much and by the look of things it does not seem like they have been training much either.

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Then at the end of DBZ, we see a 17-year-old Goten training with his father. Goku defeats him with ease and that shows us that since he was with his family for 10 years, he has been focusing on helping Goten train since Gohan had become an adult with a family of his own.

Trunks (age 18), Vegeta and Bulma arrive on the scene later and it seems that Trunks has been slacking off in his training as well. Despite Goten being trained by Goku, it appears that he prefers living the life of a human teenager. He was upset that Goku made him cancel a date in order to fight in the World Tournament.

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Considering that Vegeta had to threaten Trunks by cutting his allowance in half to make him fight in the tournament we can assume that he too had become accustomed to living a normal life during the peaceful times.

So their training was pretty much diminished after the threat of Majin Buu, but they were still in shape most likely due to their fathers making them at least have a few training sessions.

Finally we get to Dragon Ball GT and again we are presented with a split between fans who debate about whether or not there was a 5 or 10 year gap between series.

Personally, I think that it was 10 years between DBZ and GT but that’s beside the point. If it was a 5 year gap that means Goten would be 22 and Trunks would be 23. For those who think it was 10 years that would make Goten 27 and Trunks 28.

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I know you could look at the way that they act in terms of Goten being someone in their early 20s going out on dates and whatnot. While Trunks is C.E.O. of Capsule Corp. but still has some of his kidlike characteristics.

In any case, the two have not trained in a long period of time. Now despite Trunks going into space with Goku and Pan to find the Blackstar Dragon Balls to save the earth and meeting all kinds of threats, Goten was said to be more powerful than Trunks.

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This was stated after Baby took over his body and it seems accurate because earlier Baby was in Trunks’ body as well and experienced firsthand his true Saiyan power when he expelled the Tuffle from his body.

So there you have it, this covers all of the training that the boys underwent as kids but lack thereof in terms of training when they became older.

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Now it is time to look at power and abilities of Gotenks, but we only have Kid Gotenks to look at here. We know that at his maximum, Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks was more or less equal to Super Buu.

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The only other Z-Fighter who was more powerful than Gotenks was Ultimate Gohan. You could also include Vegito as well because he is a fused character like Gotenks.

Yes, I am one of those people who believe that in terms of power; Gotenks exceeds Super Saiyan 3 Goku. You can read all about my thoughts on that subject in this blog.

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Individually, Goten and Trunks were powerful but they were still toddlers. They experienced more training in their childhood than when they were adults.

One of the main reasons that I think an Adult Gotenks would be far more powerful than Kid Gotenks is simple; Adult Gotenks would be older, bigger and stronger.

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I know that seems like a vague answer, but hear me out here! One of the arguments that Kid Gotenks supporters use the most is the fact that Adult Gohan (age 17 or 18) was weaker than he was as an 11-year-old due to a 7 year period when he slacked off in his training.

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Similar to Goten and Trunks, Gohan had the best training of his life when he was a child. He went through a year of training with Piccolo before he was 5, experienced many battles on Namek when he was 6, when he was 7 or 8 the little Saiyan trained for 3 years with his dad and Piccolo and finally inside of the Time Chamber, he and Goku trained for nearly a full year!

Gohan’s abilities, fighting sense and combat skills were at their peak and he had the skills to rival his father. However, after 7 years of no training whatsoever…Gohan’s power and skills dropped dramatically. It was mentioned a few times that Gohan’s abilities paled in comparison to when he was a boy fighting against Cell.

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That is why most people feel that Adult Gotenks would not be up to par with Kid Gotenks. However, it should be noted that Gohan had years and years of training before he eventually stopped. Goten and Trunks maybe had 1 or 2 years of training as children before they opted to live the life of earthlings.

Another argument that I like to make is that age brings power. I’ll admit that I do not exercise regularly as I should or stick to a strict workout routine. However, I am 22-years-old and I’m sure that I’m more powerful than I was when I was only 8! That is the big difference between Goten and Trunks when compared to Gohan.

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The boys were still toddlers when they stopped training, but Gohan was a preteen! Goten and Trunks still had a few years to grow and develop meaning that power was a plus! Gohan was only 11, but really had the body of a teenager due to the year he spent in the Time Chamber with Goku. Over the 7 year gap, he did grow but he became scrawny and weak when compared to his preteen-self. Goten and Trunks were not too muscular at the end of DBZ either, but they were more powerful than they were back in the Buu Saga.

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I will agree that their fighting sense might not be on the same level as they were in the Buu Saga, but again they were only children. Looking at how Gotenks acted when he fought (cocky and well childish) against Buu, we can agree that he was really a showoff. He was not a skilled and disciplined warrior; he was a child who had power to rival and surpass his father(s) (Goku and Vegeta).

Most of Gotenks’ attacks were techniques that came from the mind of a child. While some of his techniques seemed ridiculous, he made up for it with deadly moves like the Galactic Doughnut and the Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack.

As an adult, I’m not sure what kind of techniques he’d use, but I’m certain that they would be on a new level of power than an 8-year-old Gotenks would never have reached.

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One final thing that I’d like to address is Super Saiyan 3. Gotenks was only able to withstand the power of Super Saiyan 3 for 5 minutes. It stands to reason that if Gotenks went Super Saiyan 3 the moment that he was formed by the Fusion Dance, not only would he only be able to hold the form for 5 minutes, but his 30 minute fusion time would be reduced due to the high amount of power he was using.

The reason that he was only able to hold the form for 5 minutes is most likely due to the fact that he was only a child and that level of power was too high to sustain in a child’s body even if he was a fused being.

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Goku is able to hold the form for much longer than 5 minutes, but even he admits that the technique takes a toll on his body especially if he is in a living body. Considering that he is an adult and an experienced warrior, it is understandable why he could hold the form for sometime before reverting back to base power.

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This was further illustrated in GT when he only held the form for a minute or two when fighting Baby Vegeta for the first time. He mentions that his adult body was more developed and could handle the power better.

I’m sure that the same could be said about an Adult Gotenks because he would have a fully developed body that could better handle the power of a Super Saiyan 3 as opposed to his child body.

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Now in terms of disadvantages, I will say that since an Adult Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks would be more powerful than a Kid Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks that might actually do him more harm than good. This is because the high level of power regulating from his body might actually reduce the total amount of time that he could stay fused. So if Adult Gotenks did go Super Saiyan 3, he would have to get the job done quickly not because of his Super Saiyan 3 power exhausting before he could win, but because his fusion time as a whole might diminish sooner than he thinks.

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We all know that this was shown in GT when Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta’s fusion only lasted a total of 10 minutes before he defused back into Goku and Vegeta!

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That pretty much sums up why I think that Adult Gotenks would be the victor if he ever engaged in combat with his Buu Saga persona. It all relates to the Goten and Trunks’ training, experience and aging.

Who do you think would taste victory; Adult Gotenks of Kid Gotenks?

 

Dragonball Z Theory Warp Kamehameha or Final Flash: Which Move Was More Impressive Against Perfect Cell?

By Jeremy Carden

The trademark attacks of Goku and Vegeta inflicted a lot of damage to the Perfect Android known as Cell.

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Goku used his Warp Kamehameha Wave against him in the Cell Games and Vegeta launched his Final Flash right after Cell reached his Perfect Form.

Though it is has never been determined which attack got the better of Perfect Cell. When you look at both attacks carefully and the situation that the Saiyans were in along with Cell’s reaction to the attack, there is a lot more to it than Cell being blasted and regenerating.

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I know it is clear that the BEST attack against Cell was the Father-Son Kamehameha Wave because that was the attack that ultimately killed him. Keep in mind that both Goku AND Vegeta played a role in Gohan’s attack being successful.

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In both the anime AND manga, Goku was coaching Gohan during the beam struggle.

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Finally, Vegeta steps in with a Ki blast that catches Cell off guard and that leads to his defeat.

Now in terms of Goku and Vegeta’s individual blasts on Cell, there were a lot of key factors that took place as a setup for their attacks.

  1. Perfect Cell was beating them both down!

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After Cell reached his Perfect Form, Super Vegeta (Ascended Super Saiyan) was being outclassed in every single way. This was the reverse of their earlier battle when Vegeta was beating down Semi-Perfect Cell. When it was clear that Vegeta was no match for the android, he powered up his Final Flash.

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During the Cell Games, Full Power Super Saiyan Goku was going blow for blow against Cell. After Cell blew up the tournament ring, it seemed like he was getting the upper hand because there was no longer any boundaries to their match. Goku realized that he had to go for broke and flew up into the air to charge up his Warp Kamehameha Wave.

  1. Goku and Vegeta put most of their Ki into their attacks

Considering that the Saiyans knew releasing their power in small amounts was not going to be enough to defeat Cell, they opted to go for broke by unleashing a huge Ki attack with the intention of finally killing Cell.

How do I know they used most of their Ki in their attacks?

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Vegeta was visibly exhausted after hitting Cell with the Final Flash and Piccolo sensed that the powers of both Cell AND Goku had dropped significantly after the Warp Kamehameha attack; Goku from using a large amount of his Ki for the attack and Cell’s power went down sharply due to the regeneration he needed to do to recover from the attack.

  1. Both moves took awhile to charge but Cell just stood there while the Saiyans powered up their attacks!

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If there is one thing we’ve learned about the Dragon Ball series, it is that if an opponent is powering up; you stand there and do nothing!

  1. Both attacks had enough power to blow up the planet

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Trunks screamed out to his father that his blast was going to blow up the planet if he launched an attack with that much force from that particular position at Cell.

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Piccolo screamed at everyone to get out of the way because Goku was going to use his Kamehameha! Cell noticed that similar to Vegeta, Goku was in a position with an attack so powerful that if he launched it from that angle the entire planet would blow up!

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Kind of like how Vegeta (with only a power level of 18,000) back in the Saiyan Saga would have blown up the earth with his Galick Gun, the powerful Super Saiyans fighting against Cell could have done the same. This shows that it isn’t about how much power you have that matters in a Ki attack in terms of what effect it has on the planet, it depends on where you launch because depending on the position of the user, the move could blow up a planet.

  1. Goku and Vegeta both played on Cell’s pride and ego

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Now here is what I like about Vegeta in this situation; he played himself! What do I mean by that? Remember that Cell has the cells of Vegeta and knew how to play on Vegeta’s ego, pride and thirst for a challenge against powerful foes. That was how he was able to trick Vegeta into letting him obtain his Perfect Form. Now in this situation, Vegeta played on Cell’s ego (the same as his) by telling him that if he really wanted to test out the limits of his new form that he’d take on the Final Flash head-on!

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In Goku’s case, we again come across a reverse situation of something that took place earlier in their battle. When Cell charged up a powerful earth shattering Kamehameha Wave, Goku warned him not to put that much Ki into the attack or it would destroy the planet. He used a large amount of Ki in his attack while Goku watched on in a panicked like state. After launching the blast at Goku, the Saiyan flew up into the air and used Instant Transmission to dodge at the last second which prevented the planet from blowing up!

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Alright, now let’s look at the Warp Kamehameha; Goku used a large amount of Ki in his attack while Cell watched with a panicked look on his face. At first, Cell thought that he had called Goku’s bluff because he knew that based on their earlier shuffle, Goku would not place the safety of the earth in danger just to win the fight. However, this proved to work to Goku’s advantage when he took Cell by surprise!

  1. Both Saiyans caught Cell off-guard and was he nearly killed by their attacks

Since Cell “allowed” Goku and Vegeta to charge up their attacks, this left him wide open to take the full force of their techniques.

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Against the Final Flash, Cell was completely taken by surprise! If Cell had not dodged the blast at the last moment by the skin of his teeth…he would have been destroyed! The attack blasted off a good portion of his upper-torso and it was clear that the rest of his body would have been destroyed if he had not reacted at the last moment.

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It wasn’t until the last moment when the blast was about to hit him that Cell realized that the Final Flash was capable of completely annihilating him!

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When Goku used his Warp Kamehameha, Cell had no time at all to defend himself. The blast took off his full upper torso leaving only his legs remaining! Goku’s Instant Transmission put him in a position where Cell’s guard wasn’t up and he didn’t have time to react like he did against the Final Flash (well at least the split second he had to dodge).

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So, we know that if Cell had moved out of the way at the last second the dodge the Final Flash, he would have been completely destroyed!

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Looking at the Warp Kamehameha, Goku actually “killed” Cell. However, that would only apply to the text in the manga which was altered in the anime. See in the manga, Cell stated that he could regenerate as long as his head remained intact. This is similar to the Namekian regeneration technique that he acquired from Piccolo’s cells.

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In the Buu Saga, Piccolo tells Trunks that he could regenerate as long as his head wasn’s damaged. This was what happened after Trunks breaks Piccolo (when he was a statue after being hit by Dabura’s Stone Spit).

Cell in the anime says that every cell of his body has a life of its own and even if he was blown to pieces, as long as one single cell remained; he could regenerate. So if we  look at the text of the anime only then we can say that technically Goku “killed” Cell because he blew his head completely off!

  1. Cell regenerated shocking both Saiyans!

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Vegeta expressed much joy in the fact that he maimed the “perfect” android that he heard so much about. However, Cell quickly put a stop to the Saiyan’s outburst by regenerating all of the damage he took from the Final Flash. This left Vegeta with a VERY surprised look on his face.

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While the Z-Fighters were celebrating Goku’s apparent victory over Cell (well most of them anyway), Goku did not buy into the fact that he had won. He said that he could still sense a lot of energy within what was left of Cell’s body. Then like something straight out of a nightmare; Cell’s lower-half jumped up and he fully regenerated!

  1. Goku and Vegeta blast Cell with a barrage of Ki blasts

After Cell regenerated, Vegeta was shocked because that was his trump card and it failed! He then powered up and fired a Ki blast that just left a small scratch on Cell’s body.

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Vegeta then fired dozens of Ki blasts but Cell simply walked toward him out of the smoke cloud and punched him right in the face.

Goku and Cell were having a fierce exchange with high speed melee attacks, but after being knocked into a cliff and Cell was about to charge him; Goku hopped out of the rubble for a counterattack!

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He unleashed a fierce barrage of Ki blasts (Continuous Kamehameha) that had Cell stuck in place! The android knew that he was in a tight spot and unleashed his Perfect Barrier technique to save himself.

Later on, he admitted to himself that if he had not put up his barrier when he did…Goku’s attack might have actually killed him!

It is interesting that despite both Super Saiyans releasing most of their Ki in their attacks to kill Cell but failed, they still had enough power to unleash a barrage of powerful energy blasts on the android!

  1. The Saiyans give up or were ultimately defeated

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After a punch to the face, Cell kicked Vegeta right into the air and ended it with an elbow to the back which sent him hurtling into the ground. Super Vegeta was utterly defeated…

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Realizing that his Continuous Kamehameha was no use against the Perfect Barrier, Goku paused while he and Cell took a short breather. A few moments later, Goku declared that he was no match for Cell and forfeited the match.

Now with all of this being said which attack actually got the better of the self acclaimed “Perfect Android?” 

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Both attacks were very impressive and powerful, but neither one got the job done. I’ll give the Saiyans credit because despite using such lethal techniques neither one of them blew up the planet. Trunks pointed out that Vegeta directed the Final Flash into space after it hit Cell to prevent the earth from exploding. Goku used the Instant Transmission to hit Cell in a vulnerable position that would do as little damage to the planet as possible.

It is difficult to say if the Warp Kamehameha would have COMPLETELY destroyed Cell like the Final Flash would have if Cell had stayed in that one spot. You do have to look at the slight differences of the position of the blasts when they made contact with Cell.

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The Final Flash would have hit Cell’s entire body, but Goku was in a position where the Warp Kamehameha could only hit his upper torso. Based on the amount of Ki Goku put into the attack, I’d say that if he had fired his technique from the sky like Vegeta did on Cell it would have destroyed him (and the planet unless he aimed it to fly into space like Vegeta did with his move after it hit Cell).

After going over all of the bits and pieces of information, I’m going to say that the Warp Kamehameha did Cell the most harm. Don’t get me wrong, the only reason these attacks did not kill Cell was because he moved at the last moment against the Final Flash and it was the change in translation of the original dialogue that prevent Goku from killing Cell.

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Looking aside from those small details, the Warp Kamehameha clearly did the most damage to Cell. I’m not just saying that because it blew up more of his body than the Final Flash, but it has to do with the aftermath of the attacks. After Cell regenerated from his damage, he took out Vegeta with ease and then got into battle with Ultra Trunks.

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When he regenerated from Goku’s attack, it was clear that his power level had decreased dramatically just like Goku’s because he had to exert a lot of energy to regenerate. He had to eat a Senzu Bean before engaging in battle with Gohan. That just shows how much of an effect Goku’s attack had on him.

Now that I have given you my reasoning behind why the Warp Kamehameha was the better move, feel free to express which attack you felt was more effective on Cell and why.

In case you need to see the scenes from the DBZ series when Goku and Vegeta use these moves against Cell then here they are!

Goku’s Warp Kamehameha

Vegeta’s Final Flash

Both are indeed highlights from the Cell Arc but only one can be named the best attack on the Android!

 

Dragon Ball Z Theory: Mrs. Brief Is An Android?!

By Jeremy Carden

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Mrs. Brief is one of the characters in the Dragon Ball series that we never saw age from her first appearance in Dragon Ball to the Kid Buu Saga of DBZ.

Considering she doesn’t appear during the 10 year fast forward to the end of DBZ or in GT it can be assumed she passed away sometime during that gap.

In theory, she’d be in her 70′s because Bulma was in her 50′s during that time frame.

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It is confirmed that Dr. Briefs had passed away sometime before Age 780.

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In any case, I am willing to bet that she did not age before her death. Now we know Roshi drank from some kind of “fountain of youth” to retain his physical appearance. I doubt the same can be said about the First Lady of Capsule Corp.

Now here is the theory; we know that the Red Ribbon Army went bankrupt trying to compete with their main competitor: Capsule Corp. Due to the success of Dr. Briefs’ Dino-Cap or Capsule it became the #1 technology business in the Dragon World.

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The loss of such a major business competition was kind of what drove the RR Army to seek world domination instead due to them not being able to “control the world” through cash and technology.

Dr. Briefs wasn’t exactly a spring chicken by the time he developed the Capsule technology. It stands to reason that he spent most of his life in school and from there working on his inventions. That would leave little to no time for him to actually pursue a romantic relationship, get married, have kids and start a family.

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I’m single but I know that relationships do not come easy and compromise is a big part of any successful relationship. I doubt that there were few if any women who were interested in Dr. Briefs BEFORE he became rich and successful because as I said before; I’d wager most of his time was spent doing research and inventing things.

Not too many women would like to feel neglected because their man is busy in his lab working on experiments. Also a relationship would take up a lot of time and keep Dr. Briefs from doing what he loves above all else: inventing things.

So it stands to reason that Dr. Briefs developed and built the “perfect wife” someone who submitted to him, never fussed or argued with him, was very human-like in appearance, could bear him children and NEVER age!

But wait how could an Android have children?

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Remember #18 had a daughter with Krillin! She was first a human and thanks to Gero became a cyborg. She still had some of her human biology (reproductive organs) allowing her to bear children, but due to the “operation” she too never aged.

Apparently not just her physical appearance but also body hair because when some of her hair was cut with Future Trunks’ sword she was mad saying that her hair didn’t grow back. Hinting that the conversion from human to Android kind of “froze her in time” with eternal life.

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This of course would mean any children that she conceived would just be normal humans like Bulma!

So you are now probably wondering that if Mrs. Briefs IS an Android that would mean either Dr. Briefs developed the conversion process first (before Gero) or somehow stole it. Well I’d wager that Briefs DID develop the process of either building Androids from scratch that were purely robotic (like Gero did at first before using human-based machines) or came up with the method to bestow eternal life to a human by converting them into an Android.

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Considering Gero was in the rival company, it stands to reason that he might have somehow stole the idea for himself to use for the RR Army or as the anime/manga displays he came up with the idea himself in their quest for global domination! Of course Gero would use the designs for more lethal uses instead of just creating a female companion.

Considering that she most likely passed away before GT, you are probably wondering that since she is an Android with “eternal life” how could she die?

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Well keep in mind that Bulma’s parents were kind of strange but smart because they knew even IF they did die they could be revived by the Dragonballs (I’m referring to the Majin Buu threat) and they chose to stay in West City with their pets instead of going to the Lookout (where they would have died eventually when Super Buu turned everyone into chocolate). I’d wager they were killed when Super Buu used the Human Extinction Attack.

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That right there kind of confirms that the Briefs don’t fear death because they know they could be wished back. However, I also think that Dr. Briefs probably had his wildest dreams fulfilled in his lifetime developing such advanced technology, having a beautiful wife and daughter, an alien for a son in-law and a grandson from the present AND future!

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So he probably just said not to wish him back when he eventually died after the Majin Buu threat. Now based on my theory it is possible that Mrs. Briefs probably requested to be “shut down” so she could be with her husband (holding back tears here because this reminds me of that movie Bicentennial Man).

Alright now that I’ve spoken my mind on this theory you are probably ready to tell me about the long list of reasons this theory is not true. So here are a few pieces of evidence that might refute this theory;

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In DBZ, when looking over the specs for #16, Dr. Briefs tells the Android that his design was far too complex for him to understand and repair. He tells him to wait until Bulma returned because she knew more about it than he did.

*Though after Bulma recreated the stop device for the Androids no one really said “Hey don’t point that thing at your mother!” *

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Mrs. Briefs IS human but didn’t age in the series just because the writers didn’t feel the need to age her.

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If she were an Android she is most likely like #17 and #18 being human based because she was brought back to life by the Dragon Balls! Now people ask why #16 was never revived and that could have been because he was 100% machine meaning that he had no soul, but that’s left up for debate.

Maybe the reason she was so young and the reason Dr. Briefs was so old was because he is simply a “Hue Hefner” of the technology world and just got married to a young (ageless) and attractive woman to start a family with. Could explain why Team Four Star used the “milf joke” while describing Mrs. Briefs! I doubt plastic surgery was why she was “ageless.”

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Though if I were to “build a wife” I certainly wouldn’t make her to be a blonde airhead who flirts with every guy that walks in her direction!

Dr. Briefs probably created/married her to have children and someone to make him sandwiches…

So, what do you think about this theory? Remember before you tear it to pieces just keep in mind it is a fun theory that I just made up (but backed it up with facts as to why it might actually be possible).

Michael Jackson Homage In Dragon Ball Z: Battle Of Gods

By Jeremy Carden

Has anyone besides me ever have one of those moments when you watch a movie or episode of a TV show dozens of times, but you finally catch a glimpse of something that you did not notice the first time?

Most people call that a “blink and you miss” situation and believe me I just had one of them!

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I was watching DBZ Battle of Gods for the 22nd time since the movie came out and I caught a glimpse of something that made me VERY happy to be a Dragon Ball fan!

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The Z-Fighters were all enjoying Bulma’s birthday party (well except for Vegeta because he was scared as a cat on the edge of a pool because Bills and Whis were there) while this was going on.

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During the scene where the Pilaf Gang is searching Capsule Corporation for the Dragon Balls, they came across a room where Bulma was storing all of the prizes for the bingo tournament she was holding. Inside of the room, you could see all kinds of expensive prizes like a castle, a very expensive jewel and a plane.

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Aside from all of those magnificent prizes, the most spectacular one of all was the complete set of Earth’s Dragonballs. Kind of interesting that the magical orbs were collected as nothing more than a grand prize for the winner of a bingo game…

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It’s no wonder that the Shadow Dragons would eventually invade the earth in Dragon Ball GT due to the extreme misuse of the orbs (I know GT is non-canon and whatnot, but I still couldn’t resist the joke).

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At least the balls would eventually be used for a good cause in the movie; informing Goku and the others how to “create” a Super Saiyan God. Wow it certainly seemed a bit convenient that the balls had already been gathered for the bingo game to save the Z-Fighters from having to venture around the globe to find them in order to ask Shenron about the legend of the Super Saiyan God. That’s the power of plot for you!

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While the Pilaf Gang stared at the balls in amazement, they were caught by Trunks and Goten. It was during this scene that the three turned around in shock.

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Looking to the left of Emperor Pilaf, I saw a white hat and jacket. I really did not think too much of this especially as a prize for a bingo game. That was until I noticed a miniature plague or stand that had a white glove to it…

At that moment, I put two and two together and realized “OMG THAT STUFF BELONGED TO THE KING OF POP MICHAEL JACKSON!!!!!

I’m a huge MJ fan and DBZ fan so to see homage being paid to the late King of Pop in one of my favorite anime series was truly an amazing moment for me.

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The white hat and jacket were probably drawn based on the style of clothing Michael had on for the short film Smooth Criminal.

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Not to mention the iconic glove is always remembered from his trademark performance of Billie Jean at the 25th Anniversary Special for Motown.

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I know this is not the first reference to Michael in the DB series. Does anyone remember King Kai’s pet monkey Bubbles?

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I don’t know if it was ever officially confirmed, but it is quite possible that his name may be a reference to Michael pet chimp, who is also named Bubbles.

Considering that the English version of Battle of Gods is coming to the U.S. this August, I’m sure that there will be fans in theaters who will notice this small homage and smile like I did.

 

Dragon Ball Z: How Did Cooler Survive Being Blasted Into the Sun?

By Jeremy Carden

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First off, let me just say that Cooler is one of my favorite movie villains in the Dragon Ball franchise.

He is indeed much “cooler” than his younger brother Frieza (yeah I know I couldn’t help but let a cooler-pun slip out of my mouth)!

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I mean Frieza demonstrated the awesome transformations that the Frost Demon race was capable of performing to bottle up their power.

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However, his older brother took it a step further by giving us one of the coolest (see I did it again!) transformations with his 5th form!

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When Mecha Frieza returned to earth to exact his revenge on Goku, he came back looking like he was given a patch up job with some spare refrigerator parts found in a scrap yard…

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Meta-Cooler appears on New Namek with a much more impressive new robotic body than Frieza.

Since it has been established that Cooler is “cooler” than Frieza, there is still one question that is left unanswered; How in the world did he survive being blasted into the sun?

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At the end of Cooler’s Revenge, Goku launched a Super Kamehameha Wave that pushed Cooler’s Supernova back at the powerful tyrant. Cooler was left clinging on to the attack as Goku’s energy wave pushed him into the sun.

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I’ve always questioned why Cooler didn’t just “jump off” the energy attacks in time to avoid being burned to a crisp. The distance from the earth to the sun is 92,960,000 miles and it seemed like Goku’s Super Kamehameha attack was moving extremely fast if it had enough power to be shot from earth to the sun in what seemed to be seconds!

Cooler was in a difficult situation as he was being pushed back by his own Supernova and Goku’s attack. Though I don’t see how he couldn’t somehow manage to escape.

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Looking back at when Goku fired a Super Kamehameha blast at 100% Frieza on Namek, the one moment Frieza had over his brother was when he escaped the Super Saiyan’s trademark attack.

Despite Goku having the power advantage, Frieza was able to get out of the beam collision and knock the Saiyan into the molten lava of Namek!

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When he finally hits the sun, Cooler is reverted back to his “base” form which is actually his 4th form if you want to compare him to Frieza. Remembering that he did this to himself by not killing Goku as a baby when he had the chance, the Supernova exploded and a bright flash came from the sun before it went back to normal.

Despite being cool, Cooler was no match for the heat of the sun!

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Then we get to the next movie The Return of Cooler where the tyrant is now in a new body and is far more powerful than he was before! In the first movie, his 4th form was being dominated by Goku in base form!

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In his final form, Cooler was dominated by Super Saiyan Goku. As Meta-Cooler, he is capable of taking down 2 Super Saiyans and Piccolo (after fusing with Kami) with no problem at all.

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Toward the end of the film, he finally explains how he became a part of the Big Gete Star. Now from my perspective, I can understand how that one computer chip somehow became active and began absorbing components from around it that was floating around in space. So from that one computer chip, the entire massive structure which is known as the Big Gete Star came to be.

Based on the way Cooler explained the story, some parts of his body (including his brain) was floating around in space and was also absorbed into the components of the Big Gete Star and from there his consciousness took over this giant planet eater. In a way, it seems that Meta-Cooler is like Brainiac from the Superman series who travels around space “collecting” planets.

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For Brainiac it was scanning planets for information before destroying them. In the case of the “Big Gete Cooler Star” it was about using the power of a planet’s core to fuel the entire machine.

Which is kind of ironic considering that before his resurrection as Meta-Cooler, he was in the Planet Trade Organization with his father and Frieza “collecting” planets (along with destroying them on occasion).

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Now when I really think about it, there are two ways that Cooler could have survived being sent to the surface of the sun with the end result being his remains floating around in space before being absorbed into the Big Gete Star.

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  1. When the Supernova attack finally exploded, Cooler was caught in the blast because he was literally being pressed up against the sun with his Supernova right on top of him. The shock wave of the blast could have sent his remains into the vacuum of space where he was just floating around.
  2. Cooler used Instant Transmission at the last second to escape the explosion of his Supernova on the sun to salvage what was left of his existence (and body) into the vacuum of space.

#2 might sound a bit far-fetched but hear me out because there are possible clues to this in Cooler’s Revenge AND The Return of Cooler.

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After Goku uses Instant Transmission to escape Cooler’s Supernova, the Saiyan boasts about his new technique.

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Cooler remarks that it is one of his favorite techniques as well and he uses is to land a powerful punch to the Saiyan’s jaw.

The big question is; when and how did Cooler learn how to use Instant Transmission?

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Now as far as we know from the anime and manga, the natives of the Planet Yardart are the ones who came up with the technique.

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Yardrart is the planet where the Ginyu Force was originally on route to before Frieza called them to Namek. Goku said that when he jumped into one of the ships belonging to the force, he started up the engines and flew off! The ship randomly flew into space and Goku barely escape the destruction of Namek. It seems that since he did not have time to plot a course (or if he even knew how to set the ship to a certain destination), the ship sent Goku to the most recent coordinates in its database.

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Could Cooler have attacked, taken over or destroyed Planet Yardrat himself and learned the technique?

It could be that after becoming one with the Big Gete Star, Cooler attacked the planet and absorbed the information from one of the natives.

Looking at Cooler’s Revenge, it is also quite possible that Cooler was able to use the technique prior to becoming Meta-Cooler.

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As far as I can tell, no one in the Frost Demon Clan is able to sense Ki signatures. This was made clear when Goku was fighting Frieza.

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While Future Trunks was transforming into a Super Saiyan, if King Cold COULD sense power levels then he would have been able to detect that Trunks was more powerful than his son and even himself (while in that form).

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Think back to Cooler’s Revenge, when his Armored Squadron was attacking Goku: Cooler appeared out of nowhere.

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After Goku and Gohan fell over the waterfall and into the river, Cooler’s men blasted the forest into a wasteland. Then what happened? Cooler appeared out of nowhere.

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Piccolo killed two of the squadron members and was about to do the same to Salza before he was blasted through the chest with a Death Beam. Where did the attack come from? Cooler because he appeared out of nowhere!

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Finally after Goku ate a Senzu Bean and emerged from the cave he was hiding in, he is taunted from the sky by a murderous tyrant holding a badly injured Piccolo. Who was it? COOLER AND HE APPEARED OUT OF NOWHERE!!

Another thing to remember is that Cooler was never seen where a Scouter unlike his men. This could mean that he either has no interest in wearing one or he can simply sense power levels.

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How could he appear out of nowhere at random multiple times during the movie when his men were doing battle against the Z-Fighters?

Again, it could mean that he could sense Ki because he literally came out of nowhere exactly where the battles were occurring. Now it could have just been because he is very fast and that could explain how he was able to get to all of those places at just the right time or it could have been because of Instant Transmission!

It stands to reason that Cooler did know Instant Transmission in his first movie, but the writers simply decided to omit his use of it in favor of him saving for his battle with Goku on New Namek.

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Keep in mind that in the first movie, it does not seem like Cooler needed to use it against Goku. He was mopping the floor with him and it was clear that Cooler was much faster than Goku after transforming. It wasn’t until Goku went Super Saiyan did Cooler get a beating. The only time Cooler would have needed to use the technique was when he was being blasted into the sun!

If you ask me the only real question is when and how he picked up the move. Considering that he goes around taking over and destroying planets, Cooler could have come across it at some point and learned it from a Yardart native on the actual Planet Yardrat or one of them on another planet.

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Frieza wanted to take over the Planet Kanassa in the Bardock special because it was rumored to have some sort of psychic powers like being able to read minds. The same could be said about the abilities of the people of Yardart being rumored about around the galaxy and Cooler wanted to learn such a technique that allowed him to travel to one place to another in an instant.

Now regardless as to whether or not it was Instant Transmission or being simply blown away from the sun by the shock wave of the explosion, Cooler’s remains were sent into space before being absorbed into the Big Gete Star.

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It is very similar to how Frieza’s remains were floating in space after being cut in half by his own energy disk, getting hit by Goku’s Angry Kamehameha Wave and being caught in the explosion of Namek! Considering he was able to survive all that says a lot about the incredible endurance and biology of Frieza’s family. Especially when it comes to them being able to survive not only in space but after serious injury that would kill any other normal beings.

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Frieza was eventually found by his father and repaired to be more powerful than ever.

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Cooler’s remains were picked up by the Big Gete Star and he was reborn to more powerful than ever. He even created a new metal body for himself along with having the Cyclopian Guards acting as a first line of offense when taking over a planet.

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Another thing to think about is the possibility of a portion of Cooler’s head being the only thing that was left of Cooler’s body that was not completely destroyed in the sun. Just check out this giant form of the core of the Big Gete Star that contains what was left of the organic Cooler. the only part that does not look robotic is one side of his head and face which is a much different color (purple and red) than the wiring and metal of his body.

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Now compare it to Frieza’s head where you can see his organic form having half of his head blasted off as you can see above.

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As Mecha Frieza, that part of his head was mechanically repaired which resembles the Core-Cooler from the Big Gete Star.

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In the Team Four Star Abridged version of The Return of Cooler, they poked fun at the fact that Cooler’s remains were floating around space and came in contact with the Big Gete Star (or at least the computer chip that started it all). As humorous as this scene was, it is probably accurate in the fact that only a portion of Cooler’s head and brain remained after he was burned up in the sun. It seems that unlike his brother who had nearly the complete portion of his upper torso intact (aside from half of his head and one of his arms), Cooler only had part of his head floating around in space.

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Another thing that fans wonder about is why Cooler did not go into his final form as Meta-Cooler. I really wish we could have seen that because it would have been epic! Since his body duplicates get repaired thanks to the Big Gete Star whenever they are damaged and improve after each injury Cooler did not have a need to transform. Not to mention Cooler was in 4th form (or what was left of his body) when absorbed into the Big Gete Star and not his 5th form.

With all of that being said, how do you think Cooler survived being blasted into the sun?

DBZ: How Powerful Was Future Gohan?

By Jeremy Carden

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One of the most popular characters in the Dragon Ball franchise and a fan favorite among the many incarnations of Goku’s son Gohan is his persona from the timeline of Future Trunks.

After Dr. Gero’s androids emerged and began killing the inhabitants of the earth, Gohan was the last warrior standing to combat this deadly threat.

Eventually, Gohan fell to the power of the android duo and the fate of the world rested on the shoulders of Future Trunks. However, the question still remains regarding how powerful Future Gohan actually was.

Many fans are curious as to how a 23-year-old Gohan was unable to go any further than the regular Super Saiyan transformation.

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Despite being in an apocalyptic world and fighting/training for 13 years on his own, there are significant differences between his persona from the timeline we know of where he ascended to a Super Saiyan 2 and killed Cell ending the android threat to the world and the timeline of Trunks’ future where the androids were destroying the planet.

We know that Gohan was the last warrior who survived after the future versions of Android #17 and #18 attacked the earth and the Z-Fighters were killed during the battle.

He tells Trunks that the anger he felt over remembering how unfair it was for his friends to die to the androids was what fueled his rage enough for him to finally become a Super Saiyan.

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Something that we never learn and what could add a lot of information to this topic is when exactly Gohan became a Super Saiyan. He told Trunks that seeing his friends getting killed by #17 and #18 created the necessary emotions for him to ascend doesn’t give us that much of a way to pinpoint his ascension. It could be argued that he was present during the big battle and saw the Z-Team getting killed right before his eyes. From there he somehow escaped and remembering the fear, despair and anger of that battle caused him to become a Super Saiyan.

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You could also argue that he did not ascend until later in his life as a teenager after he decided to devote his life to training and protecting the earth. During the scene where we see Future Chi-Chi and Future Ox-King, it was mentioned that after the androids attacked the earth, Gohan devoted his life to avenge the death of his friends. We can assume that he gave up his mother’s dreams for him to become a scholar to go into his “father’s work” to protect the earth. That means no more endless days at his desk studying and doing homework, Gohan was training full time in order to defeat the androids!

Whatever the case maybe, we know that Gohan was alone in his training. Compared to the Gohan of the present, Future Gohan did not go inside of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Goku for a year (well not a full year but close to one) and he did not have 3 years of intense training prior to the androids arrival with Goku and Piccolo.

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So we can assume that the Future Gohan we see at the beginning of the History of Trunks special was weaker than the Gohan of the same age before the androids arrive.

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Considering that Gohan did not have experienced warriors to assist him in his training, it was all a solo effort in an attempt to raise his skills high enough to take down the androids. Personally, I thought it was strange that no one told Future Gohan about the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. I know that everyone who knew about it (Goku, Piccolo and Kami) had all died, but through the use of King Kai’s telepathy or Mr. Popo contacting Gohan directly they could have informed him of the room and he could have used that for intense training. However, I guess that would make too much sense and this is DB we are talking about here…

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Based on what we learned from the manga and anime special, the only form of combat training that Gohan received that involved another powerful being was when he fought with androids on multiple occasions. According to Ox-King, Gohan encountered the killer bots many times before we see him fight them at the amusement park and in the destroyed city where they finally kill him.

Since the androids do not have a Ki signature for him to sense, it can be assumed that Gohan would arrive on the scene of an android attack. Whenever they were demolishing a city or going on a killing spree, Gohan could probably sense a drastic disappearance of minor Ki signatures (the innocent people being killed off).

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I say this because thinking back to Namek, Gohan and the others could sense whenever Vegeta or one of Frieza’s men was killing a village of Nameks from faraway. With that being said, I think the same is true about the androids whenever they killed people “for fun.”

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Gohan would probably arrive on the scene and engage the androids in battle and escape when things got too overwhelming for him. It was 1 warrior against 2 androids who had superior power, but the fact that he could escape to fight another day says a lot about Gohan’s speed and evasion tactics. Not to mention the androids were not capable of sensing his Ki signature to track him down.

You could say that the androids were playing cat and mouse with him just as Future Trunks told Goku when he described how they enjoyed hunting him down.

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Considering that the Zenkai boost was still in play, Gohan would possibly get more powerful after each android encounter if he suffered a major injury and recovered.  Similar to how he had major power boosts on Namek while fighting the Ginyu Force or Frieza, we can assume that healing from android attacks increased his power. Then fighting them and training between bouts increased his skill.

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While dining at Bulma’s house where she comments on how Gohan reminded her so much of his late father Goku, Gohan says that he wears his dad’s old colors to inspire him to become stronger.

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Overall, I think Future Trunks is the best way of figuring out how powerful Future Gohan was. Before going to the past to deliver the heart medicine to Goku and warn him of the upcoming android threat, Bulma says that Trunks is just about as powerful as Gohan was before he died 3 years ago.

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Now here is where there is a slight difference between the anime and the manga. In the anime special, Bulma says this prior to Trunks going to attack the androids while they were destroying a city. After somehow surviving #18’s powerful Masenko-like Ki attack, Trunks was stuck in bed healing for weeks practically near death from that fierce battle. Going off of that fact, we can figure that the Zenkai boost he got from that recovery was huge!

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Similar to how Gohan got a Zenkai boost after losing an arm and nearly his life saving Trunks from the androids in the amusement park, Trunks’ power must have increased dramatically.

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However, this battle never took place in the manga but when it comes to his arrival in the past the description of his power is the same. While the Z-Fighters were stunned from the powers they were sensing from where Frieza landed his ship with his father King Cold, Gohan was quick to comment that the power he felt (while Trunks was transforming into a Super Saiyan) was the same that he felt from Goku on Namek.

What does this mean?

Super Saiyan Future Trunks was pretty much equal in terms of power to Super Saiyan Goku when he first transformed on Namek while fighting Frieza.

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Now the official power level listing of Goku as a Super Saiyan was 150,000,000 so Trunks was around that level of power or practically 150 million on the nose.

What does this say about Future Gohan?

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Well Future Bulma said that Trunks was ABOUT as powerful as Gohan was before he got killed by the androids. This could mean that Future Gohan was slightly more powerful than Frieza Saga Super Saiyan Goku.

This is not surprising considering the Zenkai boost he received from that battle in the amusement park was probably very huge.

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Keep in mind that Goku was probably a lot more powerful when he arrived on earth from his 1 ½ years of being in space. After the battle on Namek, Goku was pretty banged up and landed on Yardrat. We can assume that he gained a Zenkai boost raising his base power of 3,000,000 and Super Saiyan power of 150,000,000 to new heights.

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On top of that, he trained on Yardrat in order to learn how to turn Super Saiyan at will while also picking up the Instant Transmission technique. So the neck and neck power levels of Super Saiyan Goku on Namek and Future Trunks was now leaning in Goku’s favor.

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I also think that Goku was more powerful than Future Gohan, but that is debatable. In any case, we can place Future Gohan in-between Future Trunks when he first arrives in the past and Goku post-Yardrat training/Zenkai boost.

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Keep in mind that the #17 and #18 of the future were stated by Trunks to be much weaker than the androids of the present. That is because in his future timeline, he could hold his own against them. However in the present, he was knocked out in two blows from the androids.

Since Future Gohan was holding his own against the androids before being killed that says a lot. Of course, we arrive at another difference between the manga and anime in regards to how Gohan was killed and the power of the androids.

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#17 says in their last encounter he wasn’t even using half of his power. In the battle where Gohan was killed, it was assumed that the android(s) were at maximum or full power because #17 said he wasn’t going to hold back this time.

Alright in the manga, it was only #17 who was shown to attack Gohan (who had a stunned look on his face when #17 said he wasn’t using his full power in their last fight) and in the next panel he was already dead when Trunks arrived on the scene.

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In the anime, not only does Gohan fight both androids but he holds his own for quite awhile even with only ONE of his arms! When I first saw this fight and how well Gohan was doing, I honestly thought he was going to win. It wasn’t until the androids ganged up on him did he start to become overwhelmed and was eventually killed.

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Also looking back at his battle with #17 at the amusement park in the anime special, Gohan was on the receiving end of attack for quite some time but eventually he fought back and gained the upper hand. It wasn’t until #18 stepped in did he start to get beaten.

Depending on how you want to look at the amusement park and the city battle, in terms of whether or not #17 was using half or his full power it seems like Gohan had the power to match and defeat at least one of the androids.

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I really believe that if Gohan fought 1-on-1 with #17 or #18 he would be able to destroy them. The reason I say this is because Gohan is a warrior, but the androids were normal humans who were transformed into cyborgs by Dr. Gero. Due to his skill and experience, Gohan would be more efficient in tactical strategy and technique in order to overcome his possibly more powerful foes. This is evident in the fact that he could somehow escape each encounter with the androids to live to fight another day.

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Future Gohan is much more brutal and vicious than his present-self in terms of combat because let’s face it, the present Gohan lived in a generally peaceful timeline but in the future he lived in Hell. All of that battling and violence right before his eyes truly showed him the darker side of existence and the kind-hearted Gohan he was as a child was gone.

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I’m not saying he still isn’t the sweet and understanding Gohan that he is in the present, but he isn’t cowardly and timid. Bulma says that Gohan is just like Goku who was powerful but gentle at the same time.

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In case anyone wanted to make the comparison, it is true that Vegeta in the present was more of a warrior than #18 but was still beaten to a pulp. However, keep in mind that despite #18 being more powerful it was Vegeta who was fighting sloppy and letting pride blind his skill that ultimately led to his defeat.

Future Gohan knows how to keep his cool in combat against the prideful #17 which causes the android to take some embarrassing attacks that Gohan lands on him when he is off guard allowing him to take control of the battle.

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With all of that being said, I believe that Future Gohan at the time of his final battle and demise was probably around the power of Goku when he arrived back on earth from his training on Yardart. Keep in mind that the difference of the timelines began when Goku arrived back on earth and killed Mecha Frieza and King Cold in Trunks’ timeline. Also remember that this Goku was equal in power to the one we see in the Trunks Saga.

Do you agree? If not, how powerful do you think Future Gohan was?

Dragonball Theory: Who was Dr. Gero’s Son?

by Jeremy Carden

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In a recent interview with Akira Toriyama, it was revealed that Dr. Gero modeled Android 16 after his dead son, who in life was a high-ranking member of the Red Ribbon Army that was killed in action. After creating #16, Gero programmed him as the most powerful of his androids, but also to be peaceful as he did not wish to see him fall in combat.

Learning this information made me speculate a few things such as the fate of Gero’s son along with who he was prior to his demise.

It is unknown whether or not Gero’s son was killed prior to the Red Ribbon Army’s quest to obtain the Dragonballs leading to the final confrontation with Goku. Considering that this unknown person was a HIGH-RANKING member of the RR Army we can assume that he was a Colonel or General.

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We all know that during Goku’s war against the army, many members of the organization were killed.

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To narrow down who #16 was based off of, I think it is safe to guess that it was a RR Army member who had well red hair.

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This had me guessing it was either Colonel Silver or the person who I first assumed it to be; Commander Red!!!

Now here me out, I wager that Commander Red is the obvious choice over Colonel Silver for a few reasons. It goes back to the original design of #16 that Gero programmed him to be;

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  1. The most powerful Android

Android 16 was the most powerful Android in Gero’s arsenal until the arrival of Cell (from the future) and that goes hand in hand to Commander Red who was the most powerful in terms of ranking within the RR Army.

Now it stands to reason that if Commander Red was Gero’s son, the good doctor would physically make #16 to be the opposite of Red. We have a short red-haired man who was the most powerful man in his organization but was looked down upon.

Then looking at #16, we have this massive hulking red-haired Android who looks down on everyone but not in a patronizing way. He is powerful but silent unlike Commander Red who is loud and easily angered.

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  1. Peaceful

Gero could have programmed #16 to be the exact opposite of Commander Red who was power hungry and did not hesitate to kill or destroy in order to get what he wanted. This is a direct contrast to #16 who is gentle like Gohan. He does not crave power, destruction, death and mayhem. It seemed that he appreciated all living things along with nature and would do anything to protect it.

This is a sharp contrast to Commander Red and his army which did not mind setting an entire forest on fire to get a Dragonball (well that was Colonel Silver’s doing).

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  1. Did not wish to see him fall in combat

Finally, we get to Gero NOT wanting him to fall in combat. Now this could mean many things in terms of how Gero’s son actually died. He could have died in the line of duty in some kind of battle which is unseen in the manga or anime.

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Dr. Gero was an old man and it is likely he was old during Dragonball when he worked for the army (never seen until the Android Saga). It is possible that during his time working for the army his son was killed then and that made him work even harder for the organization.

Honestly, if I had to guess I’d say that he knew that his son died and that is why he swore revenge on Goku for destroying the RR Army. Either because his son was dead prior to Goku’s attack and the army was all Gero had to live for or Goku killed his son making Gero furious at the little Saiyan. In either scenario, it seems like Goku was to blame for it all because he took away everything Gero held dear in this world.

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Let’s say Commander Red WAS Gero’s son, it seems that Gero most likely escaped when everyone else evacuated the RR Compound during Goku’s attack and because of that he did not see the true reason for Red’s death.

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As we all know, it was because Staff Officer Black who committed the murder of Commander Red after he found out the true intentions of the organization’s hunt for the Dragonballs (which was to make Red taller)! Finding out all of this along with a patronizing talk from the Commander was enough to push Black over the edge and shoot Red in the head killing him instantly!

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Here is how I figured things played out in Gero’s mind as he escaped the compound; he saw that everything was being destroyed during the battle and it was all because of Goku. Considering that Black was his right-hand man, Gero probably figured that Red was in good hands and would escape with the Dragonballs.

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It stands to reason that as time went on he knew the army had fallen but had heard nothing from the Commander. Remember that Android #20 told the Z-Fighters that Dr. Gero (himself) had created the small robotic device to track Goku from his teenage years to adulthood.

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It all started when he sent one to spy on the little Sayian during the 22nd World Tournament where the climactic battle was Goku vs. Tien.

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Keep in mind this occurred AFTER Goku’s assault on the RR Army. I think that Gero created a robot similar to that one to go checkout the ruins of the RR compound and there in the buildings discovered the corpse of Commander Red. He probably was enraged that “his son” was killed and figured that it was the work of Goku!

On DB Wiki it states; “Dr. Gero’s son was a high-ranking Red Ribbon soldier, but felled by an enemy bullet.”

That is interesting because Commander Red was killed from a bullet square in the head!

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Now you could once again argue that Colonel Silver is Gero’s son because he too was “killed” by bullets because after failing to get the Dragonball he was seen walking out of Red’s office. He was then followed by some men with guns, we hear a few gunshots off screen but we never know his true fate. So there is a slim but very possible chance that Gero’s son was the Colonel.

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In the original dialogue, Piccolo mentioned that Android #20 spoke as if he were Dr. Gero himself based off how he talked of vengeance and how the entire RR Army fell apart due to Goku’s interference. #20 quickly responded that it was impossible due to “his creator” having died long ago.

It is possible that #20 did not mention Gero’s son being the reason for his vendetta against Goku, because if he did that would pretty much solidify that he was in fact Dr. Gero himself.

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Something else to take note of is how #16 treats his comrades by looking at their actions. Whenever it is suggested that he take part in combat for #17 and #18 to see what he could really do, he outright refuses stating that his only target was Goku.

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This made the other two Androids go into battle while #16 just stayed on the sidelines.

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This kind of mirrors Commander Red’s position as the head of the RR Army, he just sat around while his underlings were out in the field of battle taking care of opposition until his goal was achieved and that was the gathering of the 7 magic balls.

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For #16 it was just him getting to where Goku was and destroying him. I do find it interesting that he just went along with #17’s plan of driving to Goku’s location instead of simply flying there. Not to mention he was able to trace power levels with a built in detector meaning that he would have been easily able to track down Goku and kill him in no time. However, he just went where the other 2 Androids went. I guess that comes with his peaceful nature just going along with his “friends.”

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To wrap things up, I’ll discuss how Commander Red and Dr. Gero were tied together in terms of how his son ran the army while he as top scientist.

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Based on what we do know, the RR Army was not always the terrorist organization that we saw it to be in the Dragonball series. It was once a corporation similar to Capsule Corp. developing new technology to advance modern day living.

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Due to Dr. Briefs development of the Capsule or Dyno-Caps, the success of that organization far exceeded anything achieved by the RR corporation which led to them forming the RR Army.

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The original goal was to rule the world with the Dragonballs, but as I mentioned earlier the true purpose of gathering the balls was to make Red taller. It seems that the only person who knew of this goal was Commander Red himself…and possibly his father Dr. Gero.

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Again, it goes back to why Gero made #16 to not only be the most powerful Android but to be the biggest and tallest of the robots because it was the “dying wish of his son!”

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Dr. Gero was probably a loving father but did not like what his son was becoming which was a power-hungry tyrant that did not care what it took to obtain his goals even if it meant death and destruction. Again, this goes back to Gero creating #16 to be a PEACEFUL Android rather than an Android created not only for the destruction of Goku but not mindlessly killing and destroying in order to fulfill their mission.

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When Super Saiyan Vegeta missed Android #18 with his Big Bang Attack blowing up a pickup truck and causing a huge explosion, #17 commented “Now that’s what I like to see; destruction!”

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Then when riding the van they stole through the woods on their way to Goku’s house, #18 was annoyed by the bumpy ride and blasted the forest in order to create a clear path for them to drive on.

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#16 never partook in any needless destruction and opted to sit on the sidelines and play with the birds. This was a huge contrast from his Android companions!

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You could see how overly protective he was of #16 when #17 and #18 were eager to awaken him from his “coffin.” Gero kept making excuses as to why they should not activate him saying that he wasn’t finished yet and that he would destroy the world if he was let loose.

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This led to #17 scanning #16 saying that he was too inferior to do something like that. In any case, we know that Gero was very adamant in keeping “his son” safe from harm.

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To him #17 and #18 were the rebellious children that would most likely have a negative influence on “the good child” (#16) and he did not want him to have anything to do with them.

It does make me wonder if he was honestly still working on programming Android 16 or if he was actually finished with him but never released him due to not wanting him to fight.

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That seems very strange for him to create the strongest Android in his arsenal, but program him to be peaceful and not fight. If he had let #16 loose to attack the Z-Fighters on the island off of South City (instead of himself and Android 19) then I think it is safe to say all of them would have been killed with ease!

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However, Commander Red was not very powerful in terms of physical appearance (unless you count that one time when he is ordering around Colonel Silver and tosses a knife so hard that it destroys a statue in his office though I think that was just done for dramatic effect and it was prior to us learning that he was in fact a midget) and it makes sense that Gero would make his Android counterpart to be the exact opposite.

I do find it kind of ironic that if Goku did kill Dr. Gero’s son then it all goes around full-circle;

Dr. Gero created #16 out of pure vengeance and with the one mission of killing Goku

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#16 attempted to kill Cell due to the beast being the reason of so much death and destruction to the world that he had loved so much

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The death of #16 was the key to Goku’s son (Gohan) having the power to kill Cell which was ultimately Dr. Gero’s greatest creation in order to protect the planet

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Goku died as a result of Cell blowing himself up in order to protect the planet

Wow kind of funny how all of that just comes together! Gero created #16 to be a peace loving robot and in the end his death was the result of a 7 year period of peace until Majin Buu arrived.

This is why I feel that Commander Red is POSSIBLY the son of Dr. Gero who he based Android 16 was based off of. Who do you think was Gero’s son; an unseen solider that perished prior to the army’s appearance in Dragonball, Commander Red, Colonel Silver or someone I failed to mention in this blog? Feel free to chime in with your thoughts in the comment section below!

Now when all is said and done this is of course just pure speculation by yours truly. However, it is always fun to try and connect the dots to figure out the mysteries of Dragonball. I hope that you all enjoyed this blog and keep your eyes open for the next one about a character who stands the test of time as an ageless female who is actually related to this blog in one way or another…

If you liked what you just read and want to see even more Dragonball blogs and theories be sure to follow my blog! Also I’m on Twitter @jccarden and I have a DBZ Facebook Page called Vegeta Is The Best.

 

Dragon Ball Z Battle of the Fusions: Gogeta vs. Vegito!!

By Jeremy Carden

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Let’s see if we can put the final nail in the coffin by putting an age-old debate to rest: Who is more powerful Gogeta or Vegito?

To fully evaluate this topic I’ll be looking at the manga, anime, the movie Fusion Reborn and yes even Dragon Ball GT…

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In order to make sure I do everything I can to leave no stone unturned I will be looking at the series fans stick their noses up at due to it “not being canon.” However, Fusion Reborn is not canon either meaning that if I ignored it then there would be no debate here. I couldn’t do a solid evaluation without using the movie. Before reading any further, you need to let go of any convictions you have against non-canon material because without it this blog would not be happening.

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The main focus of this “battle” will be Super Saiyan 1 Gogeta and Vegito.

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I will be looking at base Vegito and Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta. Even though I wasn’t going to do it from the start, I’ll be taking a glimpse at the two in their Super Saiyan 3 forms just to spice things up. Just keep in mind that in the end, I’ll be deciding on who I think would win based on their Super Saiyan forms.

Power is one thing, but I think the main factor in deciding which Saiyan truly is superior can only be done by taking a look at both the Fusion Dance and Potara Earrings.

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Potara Earrings

This method of fusion was created by the Kais through the use of their special Potara Earrings. In order for two beings to fuse, the only thing that needs to be done is for one being to have an earring on their right ear and the other being to have an earring on their left ear…then there you have it instant fusion!

Of course this method of merging does come with its negative side effects…

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  1. The fusion is PERMANENT (unless you go inside of Buu’s stomach for his digestive enzymes to separate the fusion) and even if the fused being removes their earrings it will not result in a split of the two beings…they are stuck forever!
  2. If one or both of the individuals merging are in a powered up form it may result in the fused being having a shortened life span. As Old Kai pointed out to Goku when he thought going Super Saiyan prior to using the earrings would be the best way to get the maximum potential out of the fusion, the Kai said that the strain on the fused body would shorten his life

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Fusion Dance

This method of fusion was something that Goku learned from the Metamorans during his time in Other World. Using this type of fusion results in a new being much stronger than the two individuals alone and it only lasts for 30 minutes. Overall, this method of fusion is much more complex than the Potara method of uniting fighters because it demands much more from each individual.

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  1. Both warriors must be near equal in terms of height
  2. Both warriors must have equal power levels
  3. Both warriors much execute the dance (which Goku compared to traditional water ballet and fighting stance/pose) perfectly
  4. According to Piccolo, the two individuals must breathe in the same rhythm illustrating that both beings must be one in terms of thought, mind, power, height and pretty much everything for the dance to be successful

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So now that both methods of fusion have been evaluated, it is time to tackle the biggest form of controversy: Old Kai saying that Potara is BETTER than the Metamorans’ Fusion Dance.

It can be interpreted in one of two ways:

  1. Old Kai was saying that Potara creates a more powerful being than one fused using the dance
  2. Old Kai was pointing out that in terms of drawbacks, Potara wins over the Fusion Dance

Personally, I feel that #2 is the one that relates to what he was saying. Just by comparing the 2 Fusion methods it is easy to see how Potara fusion is better:

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  1. If the Fusion Dance is performed incorrectly even slightly, the end result is a failed fusion that is either old/sickly looking or VERY overweight
  2. The Fusion Dance only lasts for 30 minutes (less than 30 minutes the more powerful the fused being is)
  3. After the fused being splits due to time running out, they cannot be joined together again until a full hour has passed. This is a very bad handicap especially if the battle takes longer than half an hour
  4.  It takes time for the users to sync their powers and make sure that their poses are done correctly unlike the Potara fusion which simply requires the users to place the earrings on opposing ears

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After Old Kai gave his life to restore Goku’s, the Saiyan was excited to go back to earth to merge with Gohan to stop Majin Buu. Old Kai asks how he plans on defeating the Majin and if he really expected him to just wait around for Goku and Gohan to get to equal power and execute the dance in order to perform the technique.

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Overall, I think of the Potara Fusion as a Hot Pocket and the Fusion Dance as a pizza from Domino’s. While one method of fusion can be completed almost instantly (Hot Pocket taking a couple of minutes to be done) and the other might take a while for results to be delivered (Pizza delivery sometimes takes 30+ minutes) but it is worth the wait. Just keep in mind that convenience is not always the best option.

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Now there is another thing that Old Kai mentioned that fans have taken to heart in terms of saying that Vegito is more powerful than Gogeta: The Rivalry Boost

While watching the battle between Super Vegito and Super Buu, Kibito Kai was stunned at how easily the Saiyan was ripping Buu to shreds. Old Kai said that it is not surprising due to Goku and Vegeta being two of the most powerful fighters in this world (Other World) and the next (most likely referring to the physical realm of the universe below the heavens). He then goes on to say that due to them being rivals, it actually made the fusion MORE complete!

Basically, fans say that because Old Kai said Vegito is “more complete” it means that not only is he more “fused” than other Potara beings but he is more powerful than the average Potara being as well.

Alright, I will say that it does make sense and possibly means that Vegito is more powerful than “normal” when compared to other fused beings. However, I do not think that the “rivalry boost” only applies to the Potara fusion.

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Here is one thing that I noticed about the Potara fusion; it combines the clothing of the fused beings.

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This is not the case for the Fusion Dance which dresses the fused being in what is apparently traditional clothing worn by the Metamorans.

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In the case of Kibito Kai, it seems that the Supreme Kai (Shin) is the dominant persona. This is speculated by his skin color, voice and facial appearance. To me this illustrates the fact that Kibito was the bodyguard of his master Shin and when fused he is “present” in physical stature while the dominant personality is Shin.

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Let’s compare this to Vegito; the Saiyan has not only the combined clothing of Goku and Vegeta but along with that are their voices being blended and both personalities being shown in the way that they act. This could further demonstrate that their rivalry did indeed make their fusion more complete than Kibito and Shin where there was a hierarchy. Kibito served Shin while Goku and Vegeta (are from different parts of the Saiyan hierarchy due to their Saiyan blood) had a bond that kept them in competition with each other with neither of them “serving the other.”

Now despite the Fusion Dance being a different method of fusion, I feel it is important to determine whether or not the rivalry boost is exclusive only to the Potara fusion. If you ask me, I don’t think that it is…

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Looking at Gotenks, we have Goten and Trunks who are best friends and almost like brothers. Their bond of friendship is arguably as strong as the rivalry between their fathers! When fused, their voices (like Vegito’s) are blended together and you can hear both Goten AND Trunks while Gotenks is talking.

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The same can be said about Gogeta because after fusing you can hear Goku AND Vegeta’s voice when he is talking. This could once again demonstrate that the bond between the individuals prior to fusing might actually produce a stronger than average being after they join together.

So, there could be a “Friend Boost” just like a “Rivalry Boost” if you want to look at it that way. However, this is all left up to perspective and personal opinion. I really cannot see how Goku and Vegeta can get a “Rivalry Boost” in one fusion, but not in the other.

Now we get to the power of Goku and Vegeta prior to fusing to become both Gogeta AND Vegito. One takes place in the Fusion Saga while the other occurs in the movie Fusion Reborn.

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Despite not being in the official timeline of the series, Fusion Reborn had to have taken place sometime after Goku’s one day in the living world and after the revival of Majin Buu. This is confirmed when Goku tells Janemba that Majin Buu is the only other person to push him to use Super Saiyan 3 in a battle before. Not only that, the fact that the boys used the Fusion Dance to become Gotenks shows that Goku did have time to teach them (or at least show them and Piccolo took it from there) before returning to Other World.

We do know that the battle between Majin Vegeta and Super Saiyan 2 Goku did take place because Vegeta was in Hell just like in the main series after using the Final Explosion to kill Buu but it failed.

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In the series and manga, it is confirmed that Vegeta and Goku were equal in power at the Super Saiyan 2 level. Goku once again proves to be the superior Saiyan by increasing his power 4 times over with the Super Saiyan 3 form. In any case, Fusion Reborn shows that even without Super Saiyan 3…Goku was more powerful than Vegeta.

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After being sent to Hell, Vegeta was a bodiless soul doomed to wander for eternity in Hell with no memory of his former self. Goku on the other hand was on Grand Kai’s Planet training and getting stronger. This once again placed him above Vegeta in terms of power. When Janemba’s power caused a rift in dimensions breaking the boundaries between the living and the dead, Vegeta “awoke” to find himself in his body.

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In the Fusion Saga, Goku gets his life back when Old Kai sacrifices himself to bring Goku back to life. King Yemma sends Baba to return Vegeta (still dead but with his body) back to Earth to fight Super Buu. Goku and Vegeta are both still even (aside from Goku’s Super Saiyan 3 form) unlike their Fusion Reborn counterparts.

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One unanswered fact about Fusion is how the fused being gets their power. Some fans figure that the Fusion Dance results in a being with the powers of the two individuals added together while the Potara Earrings allows a multiplication of the two beings power (not to mention the “Rivalry Boost”). Honestly, I cannot give an answer because even I cannot come up with a solid theory on this. Something that most people speculate is that the Fusion Dance is a bit more complicated in terms of power because if both individuals aren’t of equal power that means one of them has to lower their power to reach the equal stats of their “dance partner.”

Trunks had to lower his power to match Goten’s so when the two fuse to become Gotenks, what happened to the “leftover” power that Trunks concealed to equal Goten’s? It is just another one of those things that fans are left to debate about.

30 minutes really isn't that long...

30 minutes really isn’t that long…

Another factor that needs to be explored is time. Considering that one fusion is permanent while the other is temporary can play a huge element in the outcome of this battle.

In terms of the Fusion Dance, the more powerful the fused being is after using the dance it appears that the 30 minute time limit is decreased.

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Gotenks can only hold the Super Saiyan 3 form for 5 minutes before he either reverts back to his base form or the fusion splits him back into Goten and Trunks. It all depends on how much Ki he exhausts and the condition of his body (if he is damaged or worn out).

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Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta was so immensely powerful that he was only able to exist for 10 minutes before he split back into Super Saiyan 4 Goku and Vegeta!

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The Potara Fusion does not have this handicap because even if let’s say Super Saiyan 3 Vegito runs out of Ki to sustain the Super Saiyan 3 form, he would go back to base Vegito not Goku and Vegeta again.

If 30 minutes isn’t long then how can 10 minutes or less be enough time for Gogeta to wipe the floor with Vegito?

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Something else that needs to be taken into account is the body of the user of let’s say Super Saiyan 3. Gotenks is only a boy while Goku is a man well a warrior who is more equipped to handle the power. Vegito is worlds stronger than Gotenks and Goku in terms of power, endurance, etc. If he were to use Super Saiyan 3 then I believe he’d handle it better than Gotenks and Goku.

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Gogeta would be able to do the same BUT I feel that if he did use the form it would not do him much good because after a few minutes I think he would either revert to base form or the fusion would split. If he were to use Super Saiyan 3, he’d have to get the job done ASAP.

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Alright, so we’ve covered Fusion methods/time/power of Goku & Vegeta so now it is time to get down to what you all have been waiting for: Gogeta vs. Vegito!!!

The first thing that comes to mind when trying to compare these 2 is by looking at the threats that they had to face. I mean what was the reason for their existence in the first place?

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Gogeta: Goku and Vegeta were no match for the dimension-busting Super Janemba. After fusing into Gogeta, the sword-wielding villain was destroyed in a matter of seconds by the Super Saiyan!

Now you have to keep in mind that this was a movie and it could not be stretched out over the course of several episodes like in the main series. That could be one reason why Gogeta wasn’t shown displaying various emotions or being cocky like other fusions; Gotenks, Vegito or even Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta.

It could be because Gogeta KNEW the dangers of allowing Janemba to exist. If Janemba continued then the barriers between all dimensions and reality were doomed to fall apart.

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Vegito: Super Buu (Buuhan) was far more powerful than the 2 Saiyans and in order to stand a chance they were forced to fuse.

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Despite being anime-only, base form Vegito seemed capable of destroying Buu prior to becoming a Super Saiyan. For what it is worth, Old Kai did say that going Super Saiyan after fusing would not be necessary because the fusion alone would allow enough power to finish the job. You could argue that his statement only applied to Super Buu when Gotenks was his main power source.

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In another anime-only scene, Buuhan is literally on the verge of ripping through multiple dimensional walls at once.

This was one of the few if only times that Vegito is actually seen TRYING against the Majin. The Super Saiyan powered up to bust through Buu’s bubble and delivers an uppercut to knock him senseless.

Both Super Saiyans easily picked their foes apart with little to no effort and because of this we never saw the full extent of Gogeta or Vegito’s actual power.

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Something else to keep in mind is that Vegito purposefully held back a lot of his power to vex Buu enough to the point where the beast had no other option but to absorb him.

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This could possibly demonstrate the fact that the people fusing can actually have control. Goku told Vegeta that Bulma and the others were trapped inside of Buu and they can’t even die. Of course we know better because those “eaten” by Buu were killed, but everyone he absorbed was inside of Buu. I mean Goku didn’t really know that so I can’t fault him for being incorrect when he made that statement to Vegeta. I don’t think he’d lie like that JUST to have a psychological impact on Vegeta making him want to fuse with him.

Learning this shocked Vegeta and it made him want to fuse and with that being said it makes sense that Goku and Vegeta concocted the plan to be absorbed from the beginning.

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Before fusing into Gogeta, both Saiyans knew the threat Janemba presented to ALL reality and that could explain why he didn’t fool around and quickly killed the beast.

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Now I cannot really say what the case was for Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta. I mean to be fair, I’m guessing that Gogeta was under the impression that he did have a full 30 minutes. He had no clue that he only had 10 minutes before the fusion ended. The power must have gone to his head and knowing he could defeat his opponent was what made him toy around.

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Even after fusing, Vegeta scolded Goku saying that it was “him” who wanted to play pranks and toy around instead of finshing the battle right away. That might explain the pointlessness of the Bluff Kamehameha that just covered Omega Shenron in confetti.

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Goku then retorts that it wasn’t “him” that was just the way he and Vegeta act when “they are together.” That actually makes sense when comparing him to Vegito and how he acted when facing Buu by playing with him for the whole battle. One could argue that Gogeta was waiting long enough for Omega to use an attack negative enough for him to reverse the power and lift the negative energy engulfing the earth before killing him. However it was shown from the defeat of the other dragons that if they are killed and the Dragonballs are brought back to normal free of cracks then the negative power in that area of the globe would be removed.

I suppose it is the urgency of fusion that might determine how they act after fusing. Who knew that psychology would play a role in determining who is stronger just as much as power plays a part in all of this?

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Another argument going on between fans is which opponent was more powerful: Super Janemba or Super Buu (Gohan absorbed)?

Personally, I feel that Super Janemba is around the same level of power as Super Buu (prior to absorbing the Z-Fighters). It is true that he is the physically embodiment of the evil Ki that resides from the beings in Hell which includes everyone like Cell and Frieza. However, I feel that he is not on par with the power of Buuhan. I do feel that his abilities will allow him to hold his own but still I don’t think that it would be enough.

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Goku was dominating Janemba in their hand to hand combat, but it wasn’t until he started warping reality did he beat the Saiyan down.

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While inside Buu’s head, Goku tells Vegeta that neither of them could defeat the Majin while in their individual bodies (maximum of SS3 for Goku and SS2 for Vegeta) and fusing was their only option to win.

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Inside the mountain made of needles, Goku says the same thing about how they’d both be slaughtered if they went out there to face Janemba again. This was pretty much not far at all from the truth given the fact that Janemba took out SS2 Vegeta in seconds and nearly killed SS3 Goku before that.

Notice that in both cases the situation is very similar with both Goku and Vegeta getting caught in a tight situation before the suggestion of fusion comes about. It is Super Janemba and Super Buu rather than Super Janemba and Buuhan!

Not counting the blows base Vegito took from Buuhan (without showing any damage at all), let’s take a look at a couple of punches that might add some light on this situation.

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Janemba powers up in a rage to strike Gogeta right in the skull and the Saiyan does not flinch! Buuhan takes a deep breath to calm down and teleports right in front of Vegito who reacts with quick reflexes to block the punch! Gogeta saw the hit coming and Vegito was caught by surprise so I can’t really tell how to interpret this. Does this mean Janemba was so weak that Gogeta didn’t have to block and Buuhan was so powerful that his hit HAD to be blocked? Buu unleashed a barrage of punches that Vegito blocked in that one position before he teleported away and dodged Buu with impressive speed. In any case, I still say that Buu is more powerful but Janemba has the techniques to keep up with Buu. Unlike Buu, Janemba can break through dimensions at will but Buu needs to be deeply enraged in order to do so.

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Overall, I feel that in terms of power Gogeta is stronger but not by a huge amount of power. The real question is: Would Gogeta be able to defeat Vegito before the Fusion Time ran out? I don’t think that Vegito wouldn’t be able to hold his own long enough to survive.

You have to keep in mind that these 2 practically are capable of the same abilities. I do know that each one of them has exclusive moves in their fusion.

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Gogeta has the Stardust Breaker and Big Bang Kamehameha

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Vegito has the Beam Sword Slash and Final Kamehameha

Both are extremely fast and can use the Instant Transmission which would make it difficult for one to land a hit on the other.

Not to mention Gogeta and Vegito have the combination of the never say die attitude, brutal and tactical fighting style of Vegeta along with the creativity and excitement of Goku. As Vegeta said in GT, Goku takes huge risks with his Ki during combat and it pays off for the most part. Goku even said multiple times that the more powerful his opponent, the more excited he becomes allowing him to fight at his maximum and brings out the best in him.

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I think if Vegito and Gogeta actually did meet face to face it would be interesting. They would finally be fighting an opponent practically as powerful as themselves. It would not be a battle where they could simply knock around their opponent as they did with Janemba and Buuhan.

Vegito would probably mock Gogeta for being formed from a “ridiculous looking dance” while Gogeta would poke fun at Vegito’s earrings.

I could see the “Goku” in them getting pumped meeting someone they can go full-force against. While the Vegeta in them would scoff at the mere thought of anyone being close to him in power.

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The battle would most likely start with both of them sizing up the other just to get a feel of the other’s power.

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Keep in mind that Gogeta’s time limit is on the line here. He’d probably have to be like Goku fighting Majin Vegeta saying that time is of the essence so let’s just skip the warm-up and get right to it!

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Now considering that I think Gogeta is just a tad bit more powerful than Vegito that might possibly mean he is faster. Remember what Vegeta told Cui about how a higher power level also means increased speed. With that being said, Gogeta would be faster than his Potara Counterpart.

So the bout between the Super Saiyan fusions might actually wind up with Vegito taking the fall.

Super Saiyan 3

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Depending on how you look at it, the battle between these 2 at Super Saiyan 3 could go 1 of 2 ways:

  1. Gogeta going Super Saiyan 3 means he would not be able to stay fused for a full 30 minutes and he might defuse or revert to base form before defeating Vegito
  2. The fact that Gogeta is dead means his body could handle Super Saiyan 3 better than the “living” Vegito.

Well considering that Vegito is “half dead” since Vegeta was dead when he fused with Goku might mean Vegito could handle Super Saiyan 3 50% better than Goku or Gotenks…and yeah that makes things a lot more complicated than it should be!

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Super Gogeta is 100% dead and as Goku told Piccolo and Vegeta, Super Saiyan 3 was easier to maintain in a dead body than in a living one due to the energy consumption. He says that in Other World SS3 was well easy…

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Even if Gogeta raises his power to the maximum, I think that his energy supply would outlast Super Saiyan 3 Vegito even if it results in his fusion time being decreased due to raising his power too high.

So the bout between the Super Saiyan 3s once again comes down to whether or not Vegito could hold out just long enough for Gogeta’s power or fusion time to run out.

Super Saiyan 4

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Considering we don’t see Vegito as a Super Saiyan 4, it would not really be fair or even a point to doing this battle. All we can assume is that Vegito has to only hold on for 10 minutes before Gogeta’s fusion splits. If he can do that then he could win by a “technical knockout.”

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Now the same applies for base and Super Saiyan 2 form because we don’t see base form Gogeta or either of them at Super Saiyan 2.

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And no I don’t think Veku should play a role in this evaluation just because well…he was a weakling. He was hilarious as I don’t know what, but still not necessary for this blog. Unless of course Goku and Vegeta fused incorrectly and Vegito could just kill him with a nasty look.

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So there you have it, I believe that in an all-out battle to the finish the winner would be Super Gogeta. Now I’m not saying it is impossible for Vegito to win because the main thing would be him being able to last long enough until Gogeta’s power or fusion time ran out.

What do you think who is the superior fusion?

If you liked what you just read and want to see even more Dragonball blogs and theories be sure to follow my blog! Also I’m on Twitter @jccarden and I have a DBZ Facebook Page called Vegeta Is The Best.

Dragonball Z: How Strong Is Piccolo?

by Jeremy Carden

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Piccolo is one of the underdog heroes of the Dragonball franchise. Like many of the characters on the show, the Namekian was overshadowed greatly in power by the Super Saiyans. It is a real shame because before Vegeta came into the picture he was Goku’s archenemy turned rival turned friend.

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It is highly debated just how strong the Namek is towards the end of the Dragonball Z series especially when we are introduced to the Supreme Kai.

After the Frieza Saga, the appearance of power levels or official power readings for characters is pretty much nonexistent in the series. So don’t expect me to list off power levels that read in the 100 millions or anything like that (except for the ones in the Frieza Saga that ARE official).

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What I will do is estimate Piccolo’s power around the time of the final battle with Frieza on Namek just so we have a starting point.

Frieza’s transformation into his second form marks the first time in the series where fans (and the Z-Fighters) were introduced to a character that had a power level over 1,000,000!

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It seemed clear that Vegeta, Krillin and Gohan would be no match whatsoever for the murderous tyrant. After being wished back to life and arriving on Namek, Piccolo fused with one of the last surviving Nameks (aside from Dende) in order to combat the evil of Frieza. The fusion with Nail sent Piccolo’s power through the roof and he was able to fight evenly with Frieza in his 2nd form.

When Frieza began to take the fight seriously, he was able to beat Piccolo into the dirt. It wasn’t until he removed his weighted clothing that Piccolo was able to dominate the tyrant. After Frieza transformed into his 3rd form, Piccolo was completely outclassed in both power AND speed.

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Overall, we can conclude that Piccolo (after fusing with Nail) was well over 1 million. He was able to go toe to toe with Frieza even with his weights on. When he took them off his power and speed went up. If I had to make an assumption, I’d say that without his weights and at his maximum power level…I’d clock Piccolo around 1,400,000.

As a side note, Goku’s base power after healing from the battle with Ginyu was 3 million which was of course above Piccolo. Just keep that in mind when I get to the Trunks Saga.

Now there was a 1 ½ year gap between the time of Namek’s explosion and Goku’s eventual arrival back on Earth from the Planet Yardrat.

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Something else that I’ll mention despite being filler is the Garlic Jr. Saga. Before Garlic Jr. releases the Black Water Mist on the Earth, we see Piccolo in some mountains doing some training so we know what he wasn’t just sitting around doing nothing until Goku came back.

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The threat of Garlic Jr. was soon silenced, but then came the return of Frieza who came to Earth with his father. Despite his training after the battle on Namek, it was clear that Piccolo was no match for the evil space tyrant.

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Trunks arrives and defeats Frieza and his father but then delivers a warning for the Z-Fighters (mainly Goku) about how 2 Androids will arrive to kill them all.

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From there it is non-stop training for the Z-Team…except for when Goku and Piccolo go to earn their driver’s license…

In any case, it was Goku training with Piccolo and Gohan to prepare for the upcoming threat!

3 years pass and the Z-Fighters square off against the Androids that Trunks warned them about (or so they thought)!

Super Saiyan Goku started off knocking #19 around like he was nothing until his heart virus weakened him. Enter Vegeta, who swooped in with his new Super Saiyan powers to finish the fight and then it turned into a chase through the mountains to follow Android #20.

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Piccolo was caught off guard by the old Android and lost some Ki. After receiving a Senzu Bean from Gohan, Piccolo was smacking around #20 like he was nothing.

Krillin who was amazed by this sight was quick to comment that Piccolo might actually be as strong as a Super Saiyan causing Vegeta to give a smug look and say “Right…”

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Regardless of his power, when #18 and #17 were activated by Dr. Gero…Piccolo was defeated as easily as Super Saiyan Trunks and Vegeta.

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Before we get to his fusion with his “other half” Kami, I think it is important to go back and reevaluate just how powerful Piccolo was after his 3 years of training with Goku and Gohan for the Android threat.

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Some fans believe Piccolo to be around the power of Super Saiyan Goku on Namek (which was 150 million) while other fans don’t believe that he could raise his power level that significantly without doing a Fusion with another Namek.

Personally, I don’t think it would be THAT unbelievable. Let me break it down:

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When they first began their training, we saw Goku (base form) fighting evenly with Piccolo. It was a pretty impressive sparring match and Gohan was stunned by their battle. After they disappeared, Gohan sensed them and began fighting as well.

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Keep in mind that Goku’s base power on Namek was 3 million which was above Piccolo who I wagered was around 1,400,000. Throw in a Zenkai boost after recovering from his battle with Frieza and the time he spent training on Yardrat and Goku’s power level was higher than 3 million.

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Another topic fans debate over is whether or not Goku actually trained AS a Super Saiyan while preparing for the Android threat. In retrospect, he wouldn’t really have to train as a Super Saiyan. He told Trunks that while on Yardrat, he was learned how to transform at will rather than having to be overcome by anger and rage to go Super Saiyan. Of course, he wouldn’t have full control over the form until after his time with Gohan in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.

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His training partners were a Namek that he was stronger than in base form and his Saiyan/Human offspring that wasn’t as powerful as he was. If Goku turned Super Saiyan boosting his power by 50, he’d completely dominate them with no effort whatsoever.

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I think that against Gohan, Goku remained in base form and trained him along with Piccolo. On the days when Chi-Chi made Gohan study rather than train (remember the deal she made with Goku was to allow Gohan to train BUT still study instead of 3 nonstop years of roughhousing), I feel that Goku and Piccolo were able to do SERIOUS training with no holding back.

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Kind of like how Goten and Gohan were able to do serious Super Saiyan combat training when Gohan wasn’t holding back his powers in order to teach Videl how to fly. I think the same applied to Goku and Piccolo’s training.

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We all know that these two do not hold back in their training and knowing Piccolo I doubt he wanted to fight or train with Goku unless he was at his best! Not to mention if Piccolo needed to work on a weakness or strength he could use his Multi-Form technique to “train himself.”

So, I honestly believe that at some points in their training Goku would go Super Saiyan so Piccolo could spar with a stronger opponent to test and increase the limits of his own powers. I mean the best way to get stronger is to train with someone stronger than you are.

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Going back to Krillin’s statement about Piccolo possibly being as powerful as a Super Saiyan, I think there might be some truth behind that. He was easily able to dominate #20 just like Super Saiyan Vegeta was able to beat down #19. It was said numerous times by #20 that he was FAR superior to the Android 19 model so there is even more proof behind that statement.

Of course, I don’t think that Piccolo could defeat Super Saiyan Vegeta or Goku. I will say that he might be able to give Super Saiyan Trunks a run for his money. Piccolo has far more training than the Saiyan from the future and he doesn’t rely on a weapon for combat. He is smarter than Trunks and I believe if it came down to those two battling it out, I believe Piccolo would win it.

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The way Trunks spoke about the Androids, it was as if he was literally saying that Frieza would be no match for them. You can see the truth in his statement because he talked about how the Androids of his time hunted him down for fun. Trunks had just killed Frieza AND King Cold with ease. It turns out that he was referring to #17 and #18, but the Z-Fighters didn’t know that. I don’t think that Piccolo would be willing to fight these new foes if he wasn’t at least as powerful as Frieza was back on Namek. His maximum power at 100% was 120 million when he fought Super Saiyan Goku.

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One last piece of evidence of Piccolo’s power increase comes from looking at Goku and Gohan’s Time Chamber training. Gohan literally begged his father to not hold back during training because if he did then he would never become a Super Saiyan. When Goku agreed to fight at his maximum Gohan did go Super Saiyan and eventually went from not being able to keep up with Goku even in base form to surpassing him!

I think the same happened when Goku trained with Piccolo (except for Piccolo surpassing Goku) and this helped Piccolo get much more powerful as a result.

With that in mind, I think that Piccolo would be able to defeat the space tyrant after his 3 years of training.

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Alright, now that we have that out of the way it is time to get to the “Nameless Namek!” With the Androids on their way to kill Goku after easily defeating the Z-Fighters, Piccolo journeyed to Kami’s Lookout to fuse with Kami.

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The Guardian of the Earth eventually caved in and allowed Piccolo to merge with him. Piccolo (now known as Kamiccolo, the Original Namek or the Nameless Namek) met the new threat the Kami felt taking shape over the past 3 years down on Earth (without telling anyone…): Cell!

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It was an impressive battle, but even though it seemed like Cell was winning it turned out to be a false front; Kamiccolo was playing possum to learn who and what Cell was along with his intentions!

This was similar to Vegeta willingly allowing #19 to absorb his Ki to confirm that the Androids absorbed their victim’s energy through the palms on their hands!

Kamiccolo said that he’d easily destroy the creature now that he had received the information needed and he was going to until Cell used the Solar Flare to escape.

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On the hunt for this new enemy, Piccolo eventually went toe to toe with Android 17! It was a neck and neck battle where we saw the true power of his fusion with Kami.

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Piccolo went from being knocked out by a punch to the gut from #17 to delivering blow after blow to the Android! Regardless it was clear that power wise these two were dead even, but the only difference was that 17’s energy level and stamina never decreased. The only way to truly win would be for Piccolo to destroy his robotic opponent.

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Actually, Piccolo was going to destroy #17 but thanks to plot…I mean a barrier…the Hellzone Grenade wasn’t able to finish the job.

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When Cell reappeared to absorb the Androids it was clear his power now made Piccolo’s seem insignificant. It came from absorbing countless human beings and increasing his power to a level here he could easily take down anything in his way (except #16).

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Even Piccolo’s most powerful attack (Light Grenade) did nothing against Cell!

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After breaking his neck and blasting away most of his stomach, Cell tossed the Namek into the ocean.

Goku saved Piccolo and Tien by taking them back to the Lookout to recover with some Senzu Beans. After Super Vegeta (Ascended Super Saiyan) botched up the battle with Cell by allowing him to absorb #18, Piccolo thought it best to take matters into his own hands and train inside the Hyperbolic Time Chamber himself!

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When he reemerged, his power was enough to stun Future Trunks and made Goku remark about how impressive the boost in his power increase was. Of course, Goku pointed out that even though Piccolo was a lot more powerful than before he was still no match for Perfect Cell.

The last time we see Piccolo in a real battle was when he fought the Cell Jrs. alongside the other Z-Fighters.

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Once again we enter into debatable territory regarding how well Piccolo was holding his own against Cell’s “children.” If you ask me I think it was clear that Piccolo was one of the “leading forces” in that battle aside from the Ascended Super Saiyans Trunks and Vegeta who were having their own trouble with ONE Cell Jr. apiece!

Cell told Gohan that aside from Trunks and Vegeta no one could hold up against his children, which was false because Piccolo was doing just as well as the Super Saiyans!

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Krillin, Yamcha and Tien were obviously outclassed while Goku was still heavily damaged and weak from his battle with Perfect Cell. Tien and Yamcha had to protect him, Krillin was the one that was easily defeated and Piccolo was the “floater” pretty much helping out when needed knocking out many of the Cell Jrs. (who would annoyingly get back up over and over again).

Just a quick comment, the Cell Jrs. were holding back at first because their job was to TORMENT not KILL the Z-Fighters that was why Tien and Yamcha were able to kick a few of them around to protect Goku but were eventually knocked out for good.

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Sadly Krillin was pretty much useless and the Cell Jrs. enjoyed torturing him more than the others.

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Cell eventually told them to start killing the heroes in order to finally fuel Gohan’s rage enough to the point where his hidden powers would rise to the surface. That was when they started going for blood and all of the Z-Fighters (including Piccolo) were finally down until Gohan went Super Saiyan 2.

Now you are probably wondering how Piccolo was able to hold his own despite not being a Super Saiyan. Once again it is time to break things down;

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I believe that after his Time Chamber training, Piccolo was at least around the power of Ascended Super Saiyan Trunks and Vegeta after their first time going in the chamber.

As I mentioned before, we don’t know the power levels of the characters after their battle with Frieza. So for this example, I’ll be using just small numbers and maybe fractions to prove my point.

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Kamiccolo was more powerful than Imperfect Cell (before absorbing 1,000s of humans), even with #17 and stronger than the pre-Time Chamber Super Saiyans Goku, Vegeta and Trunks. I don’t think that Piccolo was twice the power of a Super Saiyan though.

When Vegeta came out of the Time Chamber, Goku said that he’d have to AT LEAST triple his power to stand a chance against Semi-Perfect Cell which caused Vegeta to laugh. This implies that he at least tripled his power or went above even that.

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Theoretically I think that he tripled the power of his base and Super Saiyan form. However, he took it a step further by achieving the Ascended Super Saiyan form.

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With that being said here is what I think; I’d put Kamiccolo as a 5 while the pre-Time Chamber Super Saiyans would be a 3. During his time training, I feel that Vegeta was not only able to catch up to Kamicclo and close the gap in their power but he took it a step further by going Ascended Super Saiyan!

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Something else that might help my claim is how Vegeta reacted to Piccolo when he came out of the chamber. While Trunks was stunned at his power increase, Vegeta insulted the Namek saying that he hadn’t changed at all and that all he was doing was wasting time while the real warriors had to wait for him until he came out. On that note, Vegeta smirked as he closed the door behind him saying that Goku had better watch out because he was once again going to claim his spot as the best in the universe.

Now the one thing in this scene that really caught my attention was how Piccolo reacted to Vegeta’s statement; he didn’t say ONE word. This was a huge contrast to the Piccolo we’ve seen in the past who was quick to fly off at an insult especially from Vegeta.

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If you ask me, I feel that the year spent in the Time Chamber was more than just a power-up for Piccolo. I think the time alone training allowed Piccolo to become more “united” with Kami by meditation and once again becoming the one Nameless Namek in both body AND mind.

Kami was more “mature” than Piccolo Jr. and was able to hold his head high even when insulted and this showed itself from Kamiccolo when Vegeta insulted him. If you ask me, Vegeta (like Trunks) could sense Piccolo’s power-up but refused to acknowledge it. Again proving or suggesting that the Namek was once again in the ranks of the Super Saiyans.

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Going along with my above statement, I think that Piccolo at least tripled his power level allowing him to be on the same playing field as the Ascended Super Saiyans.

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Despite going in the Time Chamber AGAIN for a second year separately, Trunks and Vegeta were not able to boost their powers as impressively as the first time so they might have once again surpassed Piccolo but not by that much.

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When Vegeta did exit the Time Chamber the second time, Piccolo (without even turning around having his back turned to Vegeta) commented that he was impressed by Vegeta’s power but it was still not enough to defeat Cell…

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The Saiyan Prince just smirked at the comment!

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Finally, we get to the Majin Buu Saga which takes place 7 years after the events of the Cell Games. Piccolo was now living on Kami’s Lookout teaching Dende more about how to be Earth’s Guardian alongside Mr. Popo. Unlike Gohan, I doubt that Piccolo just sat around doing nothing. I’m sure that like Vegeta he was training in the event of another threat that would put the Earth in peril.

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Here we come to another hot topic of discussion: Was Piccolo REALLY weaker than Supreme Kai?

In the manga and anime, Piccolo says that the difference between himself and Supreme Kai (Shin) was dimensions apart in terms of power. Now I’m going to be honest and say that I do not believe that Shin could defeat Piccolo…depending on the circumstances.

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Keep in mind that Piccolo looked like he crapped his pants (that is if Nameks even need to use the restroom) when he thought that Shin was the Grand Kai. It stands to reason that it was the “Kami in him” that made him hesitate and ponder Shin’s true identity instead of fighting. That only makes sense because being Earth’s guardian and knowing about King Kai and other of the Otherworld deities, he would be the one to make Piccolo hesitant about facing a god of higher ranking than himself.

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Piccolo even said that he wasn’t able to focus his power in order to fight Shin. Now, as I mentioned before in the Cell Saga I’d place Piccolo around the power of the Ascended Super Saiyans. I don’t think that he went without training for 7 years like most of the other Z-Fighters.

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If I were to estimate Piccolo’s power during the Babidi and Majin Buu Sagas, I’d say he would probably be around the strength of the Full Power Super Saiyans (Goku and Gohan). I don’t think he was as powerful as Gohan was when he defeated Cell as a Super Saiyan 2.

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Considering how Shin was scared to death of Dabura (who Goku compared to Perfect Cell), I would put Shin around the power of an Ascended Super Saiyan from the Cell Saga. So the gap between Shin and Piccolo would be there but not as big as you might expect it to be.

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Now something that might blow my theory out of the water is the comment Dabura made to Babidi before attacking the Z-Fighters who thought they were well hidden up on the cliffs outside of Babidi’s spaceship; “7 in all…each of them strong…we cannot use the energy from Supreme Kai or Kibito but 3 of them possess energies that will go a long way towards reviving Majin Buu.”

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Babidi tells him to get rid of the small fry (Piccolo, Krillin and Kibito), keep the Supreme Kai alive so he could deal with him personally and lure the other 3 (Gohan, Goku and Vegeta) into his spaceship.

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In one way, you could interpret Dabura as being able to sense the hidden power (Super Saiyan powers) of the Saiyans despite them being in base form. I doubt he was saying that in base form the 3 Saiyans were more powerful than Piccolo. Come on now, I really don’t think that was the case.

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He was probably saying that out of their group only the Saiyans had the power necessary to bring the revival of Majin Buu much sooner than originally anticipated. I can actually agree with this because Super Saiyan 2 Gohan (who Vegeta pointed out as being a lot stronger when he fought Cell) had his power stolen and his Ki alone was enough to bring Buu’s ball to nearly 50% full! Goku and Vegeta were stronger than Gohan was and during their battle in a short period of time the power lost by Super Saiyan 2 Goku brought the ball to 100%. I don’t think Piccolo would be able to do the same with his power so I can see why Dabura wouldn’t think much of the Namek’s power when compared to the Saiyans.

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Aside from being turned to stone by Dabura, he easily killed (or so he thought) Babidi and then helped teach Goten and Trunks the Fusion Technique.

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His “last stand” so to speak was after Gotenks’ fusion time split and he wanted to fight to the end with Super Buu. This caused Trunks to say “doing the best you can” would not be enough because even as a fused Super Saiyan 3 they still couldn’t defeat the monster!

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That was pretty much the last “battle” Piccolo attempted to engage in for the series. He was absorbed by Super Buu, killed when Kid Buu blew up the Earth and revived by the Dragonballs of Namek before enjoying 10 years of peace before the end of the series.

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I don’t count the “Piccolo” that we see in Buu’s mind fighting against Goku and Vegeta. Just like Gotenks and Gohan, he was just a thought form created by Buu’s mind and not the actual Piccolo.

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Piccolo does appear in the events of Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return along with Battle of Gods…where he was easily dispatched by Bills with a pair of chopsticks!

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Piccolo passed on fighting in the 28th World Tournament saying that “He was too old to keep up with Goku and the others.” Despite the fact that he was 31 (32 physically if you count his year in the Time Chamber) which made him only 4 years older than Gohan!

So, he might have done some unseen training between the fight with Kid Buu to Goku’s fight with Uub. However, we don’t see him fighting so I can’t really pinpoint where his power would be. It seems clear that even if he trained it was still no match for the Saiyans given how willingly he stepped down in favor of fighting in the tournament.

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The same can be applied to Dragonball GT, another 10 year gap between DBZ and GT where peace reigns over the Earth. Again, we don’t see Piccolo fighting just appearing after sensing the battle between Gohan and Baby Goten. Baby had taken over Gohan and with one Kamehameha Wave it seemed like he had killed Piccolo.

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He appears to save the Earth (and the universe) from the destructive force of the Blackstar Dragonballs by dying and going to Otherworld.

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When the threat of Super 17 appeared, Piccolo once again stepped up and this time it was to help Goku escape from Hell. In order to help save the Earth, Piccolo remained trapped in Hell so that Goku could protect everyone from the deadly Android. During his time there, it was like he had become the “caretaker” of Hell like Pikkon was in DBZ.

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Goku promised that someday he would get out of Hell and we are brought 100 years into the future where the series ends with Goku Jr. fighting Vegeta Jr. It is unknown if Goku kept his promise and got Piccolo out of Hell or not. One thing is for sure, if Piccolo was left in Hell there is no doubt his power increased considerably during his time there in a dimension full of villains from his past!

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Overall, I’d say Piccolo would possibly be around the power of Super Saiyan 2 Gohan during the Cell Games had he kept up his training after the battle with Kid Buu.

What do you think?

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Dragonball Z: One of the Worst Yamcha Memes

by Jeremy Carden

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I know there are a lot of Yamcha memes circulating on the Internet, but this one has got to be one of the worst out there. Most of the memes make fun of the human Z-Fighter, but this one…

This particular meme is a boastful meme of how Yamcha is better than Goku or Vegeta when placed in certain circumstances. There are a total of 6 different responses to everyone’s negative opinions about  Yamcha. I’ll list them out below and describe why I feel they are ridiculous.

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#1 It took me one death to realize being cocky or underestimating your enemy is a weakness where it took Vegeta to see Super Saiyan 3 Goku in action to understand this

Vegeta’s trademark isn’t just the Galick Gun or the Final Flash it is his EGO and PRIDE! Maybe if Yamcha had more of that Bulma would not have left him for Vegeta! That passion to be the best was what made Vegeta train to be the #1 in the universe. Yamcha on the other hand just lounged around Capsule Corp. and did well…nothing. Vegeta died TWICE and still fought on to be the best even if he was blinded by pride.

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I’d say that Vegeta had far more growth by the end of the series when compared to Yamcha despite meeting Goku way back in Dragonball! Seeing Goku at his best fighting the pink menace (after getting beaten by Kid Buu himself), Vegeta understood who Goku was not as a Saiyan warrior but as a PERSON! I think while fused with Goku as Vegito, Vegeta was able to see Goku for who he truly was.

Yamcha on the other hand did see the importance of not underestimating his opponents early on in DBZ. However, he became more of a coward on the battlefield than a warrior. That alone is why this statement just makes him love very bad…

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#2 I made it to King Kai’s house a lot faster then Goku and don’t use “Goku falling off of Snake Way as an excuse

Here is one that annoys me: Tien, Yamcha, Piccolo and Chiaotzu making it down Snake Way faster than Goku (even minus Princess Snake and falling off into Hell detours). The comparison isn’t fair at all!

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Goku’s base power was only 416 (without weights) and let’s just say that after death it was the same (unless you count a Zenkai for him keeping his body after dying but in this case let’s not) and if you count him eating that fruit from Yemma’s tree doubling his strength we could say it was 832 and now compare that to the Z-Fighters after training to prepare for the Saiyan arrival:

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These are from the Daizenshuu 7;

Tien-1,830

Piccolo-3,500

Yamcha-1,480

Chiaotzu-610

With all of that taken into consideration then it is understandable why these 4 would get down Snake Way faster!

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#3 I defeated Recoome, but Vegeta did not

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Defeating Recoome was FILLER. Secondly, AGAIN Yamcha’s power level would understandably be higher than the fighter he is comparing himself too. Vegeta was a little over 30,000 while Yamcha had been on King Kai’s planet training for months. So it’s easy to see why his power would increase enough to beat a Ginyu Force member. But again this was FILLER! Again, Yamcha tries to outshine Vegeta only to give himself even more grief by fans!

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#4 I was the first and only human to try out the gravity machine one time but at least I was strong enough to move and shutdown the machine in 300x gravity where Goku struggled training under 100x gravity

The 300x gravity remark was good until he AGAIN compared himself to someone who had a lower power than he had at the time. Goku had just recovered from the battle with Vegeta thanks to a Senzu Bean and of course probably received a Zenkai. But since he was healing nicely in the hospital the Senzu Bean repaired his bones rather than his health since he was in good shape in the hospital (health wise I mean).

If you ask me I’d say his power was around 9,000 or 10,000 (like his father Bardock was before he died) considering he was “over 8000″ by Vegeta’s Scouter and was literally near death after Vegeta left, he was in bed for a couple of months before he could even get a Senzu Bean so it makes sense that his power would increase after eating it. He even states that he feels himself getting weaker for not training for so long just lying in bed (similar to the heart virus in the Android Saga lying him out for about 10 days). Not to mention his base power on Namek was 90,000. I’d like to think that training under x100 gravity increased his base power by 10 because it makes it easier to calculate.

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Now there is one important factor to take into consideration: Goku was weak before he trained in 100x gravity, but Yamcha was at full health!

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Goku was training at 50x gravity doing sit-ups while hanging from the ceiling! He was nearing 10,000 when his spaceship hit a magnetic storm fluctuating the gravity from 0 to 100x rapidly not allowing him to get used to the random changes. He was exhausted when the machine hit 100x gravity so it makes sense that he could barely move!

Yamcha wasn’t tired at all when he went into the machine and cranked it up to 300x gravity!

While Yamcha was well over 10,000 in the Trunks Saga. After training on King Kai’s for a long period of time, I think it equaled around a year or a little over that. His power was probably just scrapping the 100,000 range. He was lucky to get out of the Gravity Room alive.

Not to mention that even though Goku got smacked around by 100x gravity, instead of working his way up from 50x to 100x gravity by going up 10x each time until he got to 100x, after nearly being killed Goku was inspired to master 100x gravity right away! Yamcha did not do this, he opted to go on a training mission instead of sticking around Capsule Corp. for effective training!

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#5 After Cell’s defeat, my training went unknown cause I like being a mystery fighter

After Cell was killed by Gohan and we move on 7 years later,  he told everyone that he quit fighting so that was pretty much all we got on the subject. What’s so mysterious about it? I don’t think he quit as soon as Cell was defeated he might have trained a couple of years and just quit all of a sudden, but that’s just me trying to get him SOME credit. It doesn’t really matter if you are a mysterious fighter if all you do is run from fights.

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#6 I defeated Olibu with ease but Goku and Pikkon did not

Olibu…again FILLER not to mention Goku didn’t fight Olibu (unless you count the video game Buu’s Fury, but then again that’s a video game not the anime). Pikkon was wearing his weighted clothes not to mention he didn’t use Thunder Flash or any energy attack for that matter. That shows right there he was holding back A LOT of power. To me it was more of a test because Olibu had a reputation around Grand Kai’s planet like Pikkon. Both were known for their strength and Pikkon was most likely testing the warrior’s power. It was clearly a hand to hand combat match, but of course it was more epic than the one we see from Yamcha fighting these two dead warriors.

Overall, this is probably one of the memes on the Internet that makes Yamcha look worse than he has even looked before.

What do you think?